Elhokar's Paranoia and Potential

[Turos]

' "... They watch me. Always. Waiting. I see their faces in mirrors. Symbols, twisted, inhuman..." '

-Chapter 58, near the end of the chapter.

Ah yes. The good king's weakness. He's always worried about a knife in the back. Why is he so paranoid? It's like he actually sees the assassins around him all the time. Does this paranoia sound similar to anyone else in the book?

Shallan's artwork often depicts creatures with twisted, oddly angular symbols where their heads should be. She gets scared for her life and sanity.

' "These are a type of spren, Shallan. They are related to what you do." '

-Chapter 72

When she explains this phenomenon to Jasnah, the princess recognizes these creatures for what they are: a type of spren. Turns out these spren are tied to Soulcasting.

Shallan seeing the creatures and having natural abilities with Soulcasting leads me to assume these two traits are strongly connected.

Therefore, my theory: Elhokar is a natural Soulcaster.

[FeatherWriter]

This theory's been discussed a couple times now and has a pretty good following, but good catch!

[Odium's_Shard]

We've theorized this before.. but perhaps not in its own thread. 1up for the audacity.

However, I'd need more proof before espousing.

[Wisdom]

I can't wait for the next book, so many burning questions . I really want to know if this theory is true. On another note, I wonder what the Ardentry's reaction will be if they find out (they will eventually) considering they consider Soulcasting to be holy and a thing only for Ardents. They can't force Elhokar into the Ardentry, he's a king and would likely react badly. Besides who would own him? .

Also, I think you upvoted the wrong person OS, Featherwriter has it not Turos (not that I object to Featherwriter having it... perhaps I'll give her one just to avoid death )

EDIT: Looks like you got ninja'd too

Edited January 6, 2012 by Wisdom

[Odium's_Shard]

damnation! Sorry bout that, but I think Feather deserves one just for beating me to the post. Just saw the closest '+' above my post and clicked it. Upvotes galore!

[FeatherWriter]

I will take all of your upvotes with great thanks. Eh, I'll just give everyone in this thread an upvote so we're all happy.

[Turos]

Doh! I figured it was too obvious to be left alone :/

Figures I was right. xD

Dangit, Hoid was right. I do value timelines more than anything! I joined late and got a lot of catching up to do.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Turos

[Odium's_Shard]

Try this

*With a hint of patronizing

(don't take this seriously)

[Triasmus]

I can't wait for the next book, so many burning questions . I really want to know if this theory is true. On another note, I wonder what the Ardentry's reaction will be if they find out (they will eventually) considering they consider Soulcasting to be holy and a thing only for Ardents. They can't force Elhokar into the Ardentry, he's a king and would likely react badly. Besides who would own him? .

Also, I think you upvoted the wrong person OS, Featherwriter has it not Turos (not that I object to Featherwriter having it... perhaps I'll give her one just to avoid death )

EDIT: Looks like you got ninja'd too

The people, of course. Do you not remember Dalinar talking about the king being the servant of the people?

[Vortaan]

So question: why can Elhokar see the spren at all times while Shallan only sees them in her drawings? And if both of Gavilar's children are Soulcasters, is there a chance he was too?

[Triasmus]

I'm pretty sure he only talks about seeing the spren in mirrors

[name_here]

He could be in a different, possibly adjacent, order.

[fiveAM]

So question: why can Elhokar see the spren at all times while Shallan only sees them in her drawings? And if both of Gavilar's children are Soulcasters, is there a chance he was too?

There are supposed to be 2 Orders who can Soulcast, and Elhokar's Symbolspren may be different from Shallan's Truthspren. Also, I don't think he necessary sees them all the time, just in the corner of his eye, in shadows, etc. That's why it's paranoia and not him going bat rust crazy and attacking random things.

[Odium's_Shard]

I do remember a quote from somewhere where one of the potential Soulcasters mentions that they can be seen from the corners of the eye. This, randomly, makes me suspicious of Gaz, and so I will now go read that thread discussing wherever he went.

The mirrors also seems well-played on BS' behalf. But what Realm would this mean that the spren reside on? Or are they just transparent/lucent?

[Turos]

A mirror shows truth right?

*Looks sheepish*

Thank you Odium!

Edited January 7, 2012 by Turos

[Odium's_Shard]

That could be linked to how Shallan's memories are perfect (truthful) recreations, just like a photograph!

[Aeshdan]

Or it could be that the symbolspren are only showing themselves in one specific way for now, to get their hosts a little bit accustomed to them.

[Odium's_Shard]

What instead of following around a man who is batshit scared of any assassination attempt who just so happens to be the monarch of a country that works surprisingly like an American monarchy might?

Well, the fact that the follow Elhokar in any form is a bad idea, even invisible, as he still seems able to crap himself about nothing.

[Observer]

What instead of following around a man who is batshit scared of any assassination attempt who just so happens to be the monarch of a country that works surprisingly like an American monarchy might?

Well, the fact that the follow Elhokar in any form is a bad idea, even invisible, as he still seems able to crap himself about nothing.

From what we've seen, Spren aren't exactly the most intelligent or thoughtful beings until they bond. They could be like Preservation's mists: totally oblivious to the fact that they're driving the old man nuts, simply carrying out their purpose mindlessly.

I do remember a quote from somewhere where one of the potential Soulcasters mentions that they can be seen from the corners of the eye. This, randomly, makes me suspicious of Gaz, and so I will now go read that thread discussing wherever he went.

Brandon's always been clever, and those Gaz chapters seem to indicate something. I doubt it's Truthspren, but I'm certain there is something following him around in the shadow of his lost eye.

Edited August 25, 2012 by Observer

[Voidus]

From what we've seen, Spren aren't exactly the most intelligent or thoughtful beings until they bond. They could be like Preservation's mists: totally oblivious to the fact that they're driving the old man nuts, simply carrying out their purpose mindlessly.

But Shallans Truthspren seem sentient more or less from the start (already capable of speech).

On another note I don't think it likely that Elhokar will become a Soulcaster, he already has a legion of them to do Soulcasting for him, it just wouldn't add much to his abilities. Actually I think there is a problem with Elhokar obtaining pretty much any KR abilities (even though I really hope he does) he already faces a lot of opposition to his rule, if the Highprinces discovered he was messing with forbidden KR abilities he would likely be deposed before he could say the second ideal Although then again the solution to both of those problems is that if he did get deposed he probably wouldn't have any Soulcasters

[happyman]

But Shallans Truthspren seem sentient more or less from the start (already capable of speech).

We don't know when the Symbolspren became sapient, but it could have happened slowly to them. Unlike Syl, they don't seem to be particularly gregarious.

On another note I don't think it likely that Elhokar will become a Soulcaster, he already has a legion of them to do Soulcasting for him, it just wouldn't add much to his abilities. Actually I think there is a problem with Elhokar obtaining pretty much any KR abilities (even though I really hope he does) he already faces a lot of opposition to his rule, if the Highprinces discovered he was messing with forbidden KR abilities he would likely be deposed before he could say the second ideal Although then again the solution to both of those problems is that if he did get deposed he probably wouldn't have any Soulcasters

None of those are reasons for him not to be a soulcaster. They are just reasons why discovering that he is a Soulcaster would suddenly make life complicated for our protagonists. Also, if he is a Soulcaster, he will have other abilities as well, which would make him important in other ways. I don't see any reason for the story not to go that way.

[Voidus]

Unless Elhokar becomes an antagonist I don't see it as being particularly helpful to the story. We already have two other Soulcasters (Who are much more independant) (probably) one from each of the two orders so it would be a waste of an opportunity if Elhokar just turned out to be another Soulcaster. I would like to see him become some kind of a Surgebinder I just hope it's not another Soulcaster as I just feel that this would waste the opportunity to showcase more abilities, this is more of a personal problem than any actual issue in the story but I also feel that it is unlikely for Brandon to make Elhokar a Soulcaster when there are still 7 Orders of the KR to explore. All this being said one situation that I would quite enjoy I think is if Elhokar became an antagonist in the series and was also a Soulcaster, then we have a Szeth v Kaladin fight and also a Shallan v Elhokar fight XD Also Soulcasting mainly has applications as a support role, (providing food, supplies, etc.) it does have martial applications as wee saw with Jasnah but this doesn't seem to fit Elhokar as a character.

Anyway this is all just opinion there's no actual reason for him not to be a Soulcaster so feel free to disagree

[Truthless]

In my mind, this is about as straightforward as Brandon gets. Elhokar has soulcasting potential. Yuuuup.

[Riddlesinthedark]

We don't know when the Symbolspren became sapient, but it could have happened slowly to them. Unlike Syl, they don't seem to be particularly gregarious.

I'm not entirely sold on the "Honor is like Aona/Skai versus Preservation" theory, but has anyone postulated that Syl had to regain her sentience because of Honor's death?

Also, if that is true, perhaps the symbol spren are NOT honorspren, but one of the sentient types that are "less perceptive"?

[Roamer]

Well, the fact that the follow Elhokar in any form is a bad idea, even invisible, as he still seems able to crap himself about nothing.

I thought this too at first. I wondered if they were wuss-spren, but if you think about it he does have a number of good qualities and Dalinar seems to think he has great potential. He's brave when it comes to dangers he can face in battle....I just think this particular problem is one that he is not well equipped by nature to deal with.

I believe his fears will be laid to rest soon however, as Jasnah and Shallan are on their way to the shattered plains. His sister happens to be well equipped in both intellect and character to help him sort everything out.

Does anyone think it odd that these powers are manifesting themselves so heavily among the Kholin family? We know something is going on with Dalinar and Jasnah. We have hints that something is happening to Elhokar as well. I wonder if Gavilar had been experiencing anything similar prior to his death. At first I thought these changes might have all occurred post-assasination, but we seem to get hints that Jasnah at least has been soulcasting for quite sometime and has a working knowledge of shadesmar. Why would these abilities manifest themselves in larger proportions among the kholins?