Popular Post Shaggai Posted August 7, 2014 Popular Post Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 A while back there was a topic about the names of the Unmade, which bore a striking similarity to the names of certain beings in Christian demonology. However, there were a few names which weren't cleared up. I believe I've figured out one. So, the (presumed) Unmade and their counterparts: Nergaoul: Nergal. Nergal was a Mesopotamian war god, which fits with Nergaoul causing the Thrill. There are similar connections with all of them, but they were overlooked the last time. Moelach: Moloch. Moloch was known for providing victory in war, in return for child sacrifices. The connections to the Diagram should be obvious. Re-shephir: Resheph. Resheph was a god who was supposed to prevent disease. However, in the Bible, Resheph is portrayed as creating disease. Reshephir creates the Midnight Essence, and possibly more. The connection here is more tenuous. Dai-gonarthis: Dagon. Dagon was a god of the harvest, but for a long time was mistakenly believed to be a fish god. Daigonarthis is the Black Fisher. Sja-anat: Sja-anat was one of the mysteries in the previous thread. To figure out who Sja-anat was connected to, I looked at the connections. Sja-anat corrupts spren. Which being, viewed in Christianity as a demon, is known for corrupting things? The Devil, also known as Satan. The one remaining Unmade of which we know is Yelig-nar, who apparently consumes his victims. Unfortunately, I was unable to find a counterpart for Yelig-nar. There are few demons whose names start with "Y", and none of them sound like Yelig-nar. 18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobold King Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 The only thing I can think of for Yelig-nar is Baba Yaga, the cannibal hag from Native American folklore. But it seems like a bit of a stretch to connect the two. Perhaps we'd have better luck examining its nickname, Blightwind. Have an upvote for a well-written, thoroughly researched list! I must confess that the Moelach connection had caught my attention before, but my mind was completely and utterly blown when you pointed out Moloch's demands for child sacrifice. This reaffirms my deep-seated belief that Brandon Sanderson is a genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggai Posted August 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 The only thing I can think of for Yelig-nar is Baba Yaga, the cannibal hag from Native American folklore. But it seems like a bit of a stretch to connect the two. Perhaps we'd have better luck examining its nickname, Blightwind. Have an upvote for a well-written, thoroughly researched list! I must confess that the Moelach connection had caught my attention before, but my mind was completely and utterly blown when you pointed out Moloch's demands for child sacrifice. This reaffirms my deep-seated belief that Brandon Sanderson is a genius. Most of the list had already been compiled. The names and descriptions of the counterparts were in the previous thread. I simply made the connections and figured out what Sja-anat was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Star Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 Could yelig-nar be ymir? He's the leader of the frost giants in Norse mythology. Pretty evil guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 I think there was a discussion in Tor.com in the rereads that figured out a lot of these as well though I can't remember if they figured something out for Yelig-nar if they were similarly stumped. Baba Yaga, the cannibal hag from Native American folklore. Baba Yaga isn't Native American, she's Slavic/Russian. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobold King Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 Baba Yaga isn't Native American, she's Slavic/Russian. Of course, the one time I get a chance to look halfway knowledgeable I mess up an integral fact like that. In my defense, I got her mixed up with the Wendigo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiver Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 (edited) Honestly, anytime I read Yelig-nar, I think of Yog-Sothoth... but that comparision doesn't really fit, either with the pattern you have for the existing unmade, or for what Yoggy apparently stands for in the Cthullu mythos. I think it's just a phonetics thing; both of the names have a wierd combination of letters, hyphens, and just sound... off to me. Edited August 7, 2014 by Quiver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 Well one thought I had is although it is great that the names connect, maybe Brandon reached the same brick wall you did. Maybe by the time he got to Yelig-nar, he couldn't find one that made sense name wise. If, which it does seem to be based on your research, he drew a lot of inspiration from Christian demonology, then perhaps you could try the same theory you used on Sja-anat. Find a demon, regardless of its name, that seems to mesh with Yelig-nar's purpose and perhaps that is the demon in all but name? Honestly the first thing that popped in my head from your description was leviathan. Though I am horrendously uninformed in that venue, I just pictured something huge with that name would be a devouring aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggai Posted August 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 Well one thought I had is although it is great that the names connect, maybe Brandon reached the same brick wall you did. Maybe by the time he got to Yelig-nar, he couldn't find one that made sense name wise. If, which it does seem to be based on your research, he drew a lot of inspiration from Christian demonology, then perhaps you could try the same theory you used on Sja-anat. Find a demon, regardless of its name, that seems to mesh with Yelig-nar's purpose and perhaps that is the demon in all but name? Honestly the first thing that popped in my head from your description was leviathan. Though I am horrendously uninformed in that venue, I just pictured something huge with that name would be a devouring aspect. Leviathan, as a demon, is generally associated with envy, which doesn't seem to fit. Of course, it's possible that it would fit, but until we know more about Yelig-nar I think that Leviathan probably wouldn't work. Could yelig-nar be ymir? He's the leader of the frost giants in Norse mythology. Pretty evil guy. To the best of my knowledge, Ymir isn't generally regarded as a demon in Christianity. Also, the only real similarity is the first letter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 Here is the link to where the Re-readers were discussing this. A lot of the same results were reached, and looks like they are also stumped by Yelid-nar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 (edited) A while back there was a topic about the names of the Unmade, which bore a striking similarity to the names of certain beings in Christian demonology. However, there were a few names which weren't cleared up. I believe I've figured out one. So, the (presumed) Unmade and their counterparts: Nergaoul: Nergal. Nergal was a Mesopotamian war god, which fits with Nergaoul causing the Thrill. There are similar connections with all of them, but they were overlooked the last time. Moelach: Moloch. Moloch was known for providing victory in war, in return for child sacrifices. The connections to the Diagram should be obvious. Re-shephir: Resheph. Resheph was a god who was supposed to prevent disease. However, in the Bible, Resheph is portrayed as creating disease. Reshephir creates the Midnight Essence, and possibly more. The connection here is more tenuous. Dai-gonarthis: Dagon. Dagon was a god of the harvest, but for a long time was mistakenly believed to be a fish god. Daigonarthis is the Black Fisher. Sja-anat: Sja-anat was one of the mysteries in the previous thread. To figure out who Sja-anat was connected to, I looked at the connections. Sja-anat corrupts spren. Which being, viewed in Christianity as a demon, is known for corrupting things? The Devil, also known as Satan. The one remaining Unmade of which we know is Yelig-nar, who apparently consumes his victims. Unfortunately, I was unable to find a counterpart for Yelig-nar. There are few demons whose names start with "Y", and none of them sound like Yelig-nar. Could Yelig-nar not be Yeter'el? He was one of the fallen angels in christian theology? He possesed people which would possibly go with Yelig-nar consuming people, since when your possesed your essentially consumed by something else? Edited August 7, 2014 by Griff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggai Posted August 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 Could Yelig-nar not be Yeter'el? He was one of the fallen angels in christian theology? He possesed people which would possibly go with Yelig-nar consuming people, since when your possesed your essentially consumed by something else? I found exactly one source that mentioned Yeter'el when I googled it, and it didn't seem very reliable. Could you post a link or something for where you heard about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deddinty Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 (edited) Yetarel is the name of a fallen angel from the apocryphal book of Enoch, search that and you should find something. As far as I know though, nothing besides the name is known. The best one I know of would be Enlil or Ellil (and his wife Ninlil, queen of wind). Though the translation is somewhat disputed, his name is usually translated as "Lord of Air/Wind" and since he's called "Blightwind" I suppose it's possible. It could very roughly fit in the "add in an extra syllable or two" of the others. This one is less likely in my opinion, but for consuming victims there is a term "yezer ha-ra", which more generally refers to the temptations of the body, but can be personified as a vampire like spirit that tries to infect the psyche and consume the victim, but it's more lust than anything. This one sounds a little too close to certain names for Jezrien (Jezerezeh'Elin anyone?) for my comfort. Edited August 8, 2014 by deddinty 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zea mays Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 Anat was an ancient mid-eastern goddess. Obligatory wikipedia link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggai Posted August 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 Anat was an ancient mid-eastern goddess. Obligatory wikipedia link That was mentioned in the previous thread. She doesn't seem to have much to do with corruption, and she's missing the "s". Yetarel is the name of a fallen angel from the apocryphal book of Enoch, search that and you should find something. As far as I know though, nothing besides the name is known. The best one I know of would be Enlil or Ellil (and his wife Ninlil, queen of wind). Though the translation is somewhat disputed, his name is usually translated as "Lord of Air/Wind" and since he's called "Blightwind" I suppose it's possible. It could very roughly fit in the "add in an extra syllable or two" of the others. This one is less likely in my opinion, but for consuming victims there is a term "yezer ha-ra", which more generally refers to the temptations of the body, but can be personified as a vampire like spirit that tries to infect the psyche and consume the victim, but it's more lust than anything. This one sounds a little too close to certain names for Jezrien (Jezerezeh'Elin anyone?) for my comfort. Ah, thank you. I looked them up, but none of them really sound like "Yelig-nar". "Ellil" is probably the closest, and if it ended with a "g" or perhaps an "n", I would probably think that it worked, but as it is it seems a bit too far off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 I found exactly one source that mentioned Yeter'el when I googled it, and it didn't seem very reliable. Could you post a link or something for where you heard about it? like deddinty said Yeter'el is a fallen angel and father of thr nephilim mentioned in the book of enoch, as for reference i dont no how to do links but in the book Encylopedia of demons in world religions and cultures page 333,is where i found him, andfallen angels are all associated with possessio,its a long shot i admit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liamcephus Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 I believe that Yelig-nar is based in name to a Great Duke of hell Eligor in Ancient Jewish theology (aka Eligos or Abigos). It is not uncommon in the Jewish language to have a name start with a silent letter like Y so i simply ignored it and looked for similar word starting with an E. Remember known as the "Great Duke of Hades", Eligor is a highly respected demon due to his deep knowledge of warfare. In modern military terms he is a high-ranking General who not only understands the subtle strategies of warfare, but also has the ability to FORSEE an enemy's position and tactics ahead of the battle itself. He also rides a WINGED steed who is also a demon. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastlindyrick Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 Excellent first post, Liamcephus. Looks legit to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggai Posted August 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 I believe that Yelig-nar is based in name to a Great Duke of hell Eligor in Ancient Jewish theology (aka Eligos or Abigos). It is not uncommon in the Jewish language to have a name start with a silent letter like Y so i simply ignored it and looked for similar word starting with an E. Remember known as the "Great Duke of Hades", Eligor is a highly respected demon due to his deep knowledge of warfare. In modern military terms he is a high-ranking General who not only understands the subtle strategies of warfare, but also has the ability to FORSEE an enemy's position and tactics ahead of the battle itself. He also rides a WINGED steed who is also a demon. That's probably the closest in terms of names that we've come so far. The warfare aspect seems like it's been taken by Nergaoul, and doesn't seem to have much to do with the attributes of Yelig-nar that we know of, but until we get a better option or a better description of Yelig-nar, I think that this is probably the best we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adbf Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 (edited) Is Yelig-nar's name Legion? I mean, the general l-g-n consonant patern, and the "voice accompanied by the wails of those he consumed”, i.e. there are many inside a single posessed. Edited August 13, 2014 by adbf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggai Posted August 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 This is a bit of a necro, but I was thinking about potential future Unmade and what they might be named and what they might do. So the obvious first Biblical demon I thought of was Baal. Baal was worshiped by the Israelites quite commonly in the Bible. In fact, it's one of the most commonly mentioned false gods in the Bible. But so far, we have no Unmade named after it. That seemed strange. To figure out what it was, I looked at the connection. Baal was worshiped so commonly because he was a rain god, and rain is absolutely vital to life. So we have a hypothetical Unmade which is connected to a rain god. The most likely conclusion is that there is an Unmade (perhaps the most powerful of the Unmade, given the Biblical importance of Baal) which fuels the Everstorm. This Unmade would serve a similar purpose to the Stormfather, distributing Voidlight and converting parshmen to Voidbringers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Star Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 So the obvious first Biblical demon I thought of was Baal. Baal was worshiped by the Israelites quite commonly in the Bible. In fact, it's one of the most commonly mentioned false gods in the Bible. But so far, we have no Unmade named after it. That seemed strange. To figure out what it was, I looked at the connection. Baal was worshiped so commonly because he was a rain god, and rain is absolutely vital to life. I'm going to guess that the Baal-inspired unmade is causing the Purelake plague. That would certainly fit pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggai Posted August 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 I'm going to guess that the Baal-inspired unmade is causing the Purelake plague. That would certainly fit pretty well. I think that would fit better with Reshephir, as Resheph was viewed as causing disease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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