101 Kandra Tricks

[Longshot97]

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

Quote

40. Blood drainage. Yeesh

I'm a bit confused on this one. Could you explain it in more detail?

I was thinking of something like a mosquito, vampire bat, or other bloodsucker. Not necessarily more effective than simply stabbing someone, but hey, it's an ability.

2 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

Also, in the future you may want to edit your first post if you have new comments so as to not double post.

Excellent point, sorry for the inconvenience.

44. Biological bullets. Could they force their bodies to eject small projectiles at comparable speeds to firearms? It would be nowhere near as effective as gunpowder, but they could defend themselves in a pinch.

[Longshot97]

On 10/1/2023 at 5:39 PM, Trusk'our said:

I'm a bit confused on this one. Could you explain it in more detail?

Just me thinking of bloodsucking animals, such as mosquitoes and vampire bats. While it would not be much more effective than simply stabbing somebody, it would be very interesting to see.

 

On 10/1/2023 at 5:39 PM, Trusk'our said:

Also, in the future you may want to edit your first post if you have new comments so as to not double post.

My mistake, thank you for pointing that out, will avoid it in the future.

44. Incendiary Gas. A surprising number of animals produce volatile gas as a natural part of their digestive systems (did you know you could set cow manure on fire? It's simultaneously fascinating and disgusting). All the kandra would need to do is strike a spark. They could do so manually, but I wonder if there is a biological means of generating a spark a kandra could mimic?

[Trusk'our]

26 minutes ago, Longshot97 said:

Just me thinking of bloodsucking animals, such as mosquitoes and vampire bats. While it would not be much more effective than simply stabbing somebody, it would be very interesting to see.

Hmmm, you know, that gives me an idea. . .

45. Nutrients transfusion: A Kandra with human allies in a hostile environment could eat and digest matter that their friends could not, then they could use their biological processes to convert them into something the humans could use. The Kandra then hooks themselves into the human's veins and delivers nutrients directly into their bloodstream.

Or they could just grow detachable portions of meat the humans could consume.

30 minutes ago, Longshot97 said:

44. Incendiary Gas. A surprising number of animals produce volatile gas as a natural part of their digestive systems (did you know you could set cow manure on fire? It's simultaneously fascinating and disgusting). All the kandra would need to do is strike a spark. They could do so manually, but I wonder if there is a biological means of generating a spark a kandra could mimic?

Ah, that could be useful, though they might have difficulty storing a lot at once. Maybe they could somehow use F-Bendalloy or F-cadmium to pull off storing more than they normally could? As for a spark maker they could just hold onto a device in their body, then use it to make a spark when needed.

That gives me another idea. . .

46. Natural pepper spray: Like a bombardier beetle, a Kandra could create organs that could produce a burning chemical spray to blind opponents at close range. Could be useful to temporarily disable more powerful opponents.

These are some good ideas!

34 minutes ago, Longshot97 said:

My mistake, thank you for pointing that out, will avoid it in the future.

Also, I don't really want to be "that guy", but I think you did it again.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

Okay so I am sad I didn't see this sooner.  Kind of wish it was in general discussion so we didn't have to spoiler too much and could draw from other systems as well but I will do my best to add a bit here.  First I will toss out my thoughts on what is already here.  

On 9/4/2023 at 8:07 PM, Trusk'our said:

1. Enhance senses either through skill or animal parts: this one's fairly simple (seeing as TenSoon did this in HoA), though it would be incredibly useful for an entire plethora of reasons. Additionally, the Kandra could have access to senses that even a Tineye or Windwhisperer couldn't, such as a shark's ability to detect the electromagnetic fields generated by living organisms or certain birds' ability to sense the Earth's (or Scadrial's) magnetic poles.

This can easily have the potential gecko and whale sounds added to it.  In the MAG the Kandra actually have a stunt for this and it is great.  Hard to say how it should work but I think that the hairs a spider has to sense the world around it.  Or the hairs to allow the gecko to climb are awesome ones.  

MAG stunt: "Chimera: When you take a Mimicked form you may grant it one feature 
of another form you’ve taken in the past (e.g. granting a dog form the ability 
to speak)."

On 9/4/2023 at 8:07 PM, Trusk'our said:

4. Eyes to tunnel through the walls: We've seen that Melaan is capable of wiggling her flesh through very small holes in order to pick locks, but maybe this tactic could be used to let the Kandra wiggle a tendril through the walls of a house (such as through the electrical sockets- not in the sockets themselves, just around the area where they are) in order to peek into other rooms, kind of like what Twinsoul did in TLM, only better. They could even distribute this through an entire building as each tendril doesn't need to be very big and should be easy to maintain.

We've even seen that Kandra can temporarily detach parts of their bodies and reconnect them later with no harm (Melaan in BoM with her arm), so a Kandra could set up a "surveillance system" to discover intruders that come into their home and then temporarily disconnect from it in order to hunt down their enemies (yeah, it's a combat-based way of looking at it, but that's what came to mind).

I picture this very much like Twinsoul and his roseite under the door. Except the kandra doesn't have to take the Aether's description they can just see it. Likewise ventilation shafts could totally set up a spot for a kandra to sort of nest and root into sending out thin tendrils to all vents and spying on all rooms. Likely you would need and want specific blessings (maybe presence) to allow your mind to process all of the information at once. 

On 9/4/2023 at 8:07 PM, Trusk'our said:

5. Flesh-mech suit: speaking of being able to detach and reattach body parts, a Kandra could make a heavy duty ancient Koloss (or tyrannosaurus, it their feeling up to it) style body for combat but detach a more mobile and conservative (probably human based) body to go about their normal business. When the call for battle arises, they don't need to ingest a lot of mass at once, they simply go to their pre-made battle-body and reattach to it in order to wreak absolute havoc.

I agree with @alder24 that the meat would probably go bad.  I like the addition tricks listed paired with feruchemy.  I bet the use of bendalloy or more than likely pewter feruchemy would allow a similar end effect of being able to have some 12 foot hulking humanoid when needed without the added stresses of worrying about where you left your rotting meat suit. 

On 9/14/2023 at 9:01 AM, Trusk'our said:

31. A-copper plus A-bendalloy or F-steel; this one didn't feel like a "trick" at first, but it grew on me- mostly because of what it could allow the Kandra specifically to do. A Kandra that used Hemalurgy to gain Feruchemical steel or Allomantic bendalloy could swap their bodies really fast, so much so that if they move from one room to another, they could convince others they are actually multiple people (note: I don't mean the Kandra actually splits and turns into multiple people, just that from the perspective of everyone else they could seem like multiple people). In addition, when either A-bendalloy or F-steel (well, F-steel would be better in this case) is used, the speed of burning metals increases for the Kandra, allowing them to burn their copper more quickly, thus granting them a bigger, stronger Coppercloud to prevent even augmented Seekers from noticing the swap due to Allomancy or potentially Feruchemy. Plus, the augmented copper would help shield them from powerful emotional Allomancy trying to break into and control them.

I have envisioned a kandra quick change magic act but with animal skins and bones.  They step behind a screen as a tiger and immediately come out the other side as a shoebill stork or something epic. 

On 9/14/2023 at 9:01 AM, Trusk'our said:

34. Nano tentacles; Kandra can manipulate their body to work in very, very small ways. Perhaps a skilled Kandra could grow microscopic tendrils that could enter a sick human and gobble up whatever is infecting them (Kandra don't seem to get sick, so maybe they could share some of that immunity?). Kandra might also be able to use this method to work with nano-bots or the like, delicately modifying things at the cellular level.

This sort of starts my desire to mix systems so some Warbreaker spoilers ahead: 

Spoiler

Vasher commanded the rope with a series of taps to do different things.  I think a kandra with some breaths and practice could most likely take that to a new extreme. They might even be able to offer separate commands to separate pieces of the same rope to make the Doc Ock arms a reality. The base of the rope could be held onto or connected inside of them and they could be sending commands to it very discretely. It would be hard and would take some serious skill but, again, I think the blessing of presence shines here.  Increased mental capacity as a power is rare even in the cosmere. I won't say this is better than F zinc but I think in pairing with the fact that the kandra could fuse itself over the rope, or any awakened object, and use these fine muscles to feed commands to it the blessing of presence is the way to go. (Truth be told I think the blessing of potency and awareness both appear far weaker choices knowing the tricks that kandra can pull with combining animal sensory organs and increasing muscle density on their own.) 

For me to extrapolate a bit more on other ideas. 

47:  Walking Bio Weapon- I assume Kandra are immune to most diseases. We see just how efficient it was for wiping out civilizations in the America's and I think the Kandra could do the exact same thing. Combining a couple of other ideas we could even add on to this that the Kandra could create the antibodies and inoculate their side specifically towards that disease and then go spread it in enemy encampments. The kandra could take over and infiltrate as a supplier or hunter or whatever for the enemy supplying tainted meat or food... they could even just eat a fallen body and then go back to the encampment after an outing and spread the disease via coughing and other contact methods.  

This becomes double spooky when thinking interplanetary war.  We could potentially be seeing Kandra using that in Era 3 or any other more futuristic books. 

48: Hidden blades- Need I say more? Straight assassins creed style. Another Awakening thought:

Spoiler

Small destroying blade hidden in the body. We know an aluminum scabbard is enough to stop Nighblood.  A kandra could use a hollowed out radius or ulna and place a small awakened destroying Italian stiletto in said aluminum bone.  So long as the handle on the Stiletto is safe as we see nightbloods handle is the kandra could use their own body to properly the stiletto out through the tube and then pull it back retracting it making sure that they keep their own meat out of the way of the edge.  

49: True body fuel: Obvious is true body metalminds or truebody used as allomantic fuel. Less obvious and another need for awakening spoiler box: 

Spoiler

True body bones made of compressed cloth (or any material that would hold a good stain and dye) stained / dyed in a deep black which we know is a great color choice. No colorless prison could hold you back. 

 

[Longshot97]

On 10/4/2023 at 10:22 AM, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Spoiler

True body bones made of compressed cloth (or any material that would hold a good stain and dye) stained / dyed in a deep black which we know is a great color choice. No colorless prison could hold you back. 

 

This leads to another idea I had, which potentially solves the limitation kandra have with skeletons.

50: Spoilers for Warbreaker

Spoiler

Awakened Substitute Skeletons. They could Command a length of rope to "support movements" or something similar, and use it as a means of supporting their mass to create, for example, a leg. They wouldn't have to command it to perform specific movements, just to follow the movements the muscle surrounding the cloth and provide enough resistance to support the limb. This could allow them to assume virtually any form at all with just a coil of rope that they shape with their bodily mass. I don't know if I'm explaining this coherently.

 

On 10/3/2023 at 10:27 AM, Trusk'our said:

45. Nutrients transfusion: A Kandra with human allies in a hostile environment could eat and digest matter that their friends could not, then they could use their biological processes to convert them into something the humans could use. The Kandra then hooks themselves into the human's veins and delivers nutrients directly into their bloodstream.

There's an idea...

51: Element Isolation. Especially useful in scientific endeavors, a kandra could command their body to digest everything but a specific element/molecule/compound, and store it/eject it. Could be an effective way of creating supplements, or purifying materials, such as water. 

On 10/3/2023 at 10:27 AM, Trusk'our said:

Also, I don't really want to be "that guy", but I think you did it again.

You have my sincerest apologies. That wasn't even deliberate, I have no idea how it occurred, all I did was edit the original post, and it duplicated.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Longshot97
Spoilers.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

23 hours ago, Longshot97 said:

50:

Spoiler

Awakened Substitute Skeletons. They could Command a length of rope to "support movements" or something similar, and use it as a means of supporting their mass to create, for example, a leg. They wouldn't have to command it to perform specific movements, just to follow the movements the muscle surrounding the cloth and provide enough resistance to support the limb. This could allow them to assume virtually any form at all with just a coil of rope that they shape with their bodily mass. I don't know if I'm explaining this coherently.

 

I would love to see something like a few lengths of rope being used for this. There is some insanely strong rope out there and to have a skeletal system capable of withstanding force and strain like that would be awesome. It would also bring with it the benefits of being highly invested without needing aluminum.  It could be doubled over itself and such too.  

I would be really interested to see if something like this could pair with some F iron to lower weight enough to allow even flight.  

@Trusk'our do you think kandra would meet the same difficulties in creating feathers that they do hair?  What about fingernails and teeth? 

Gotta add a new one. Not sure if it can count as a legit number as it will have to contain some Stormlight spoilers:

Spoiler

#52 maybe: Gemhearts.  Taking them and using those bonds or perhaps creating a bond of your own for your own gemheart bonds?  Faster, lighter, the possibilities are as great as there are spren built for the job. 

 

Edited October 6, 2023 by Tamriel Wolfsbaine

[Trusk'our]

21 hours ago, Longshot97 said:

You have my sincerest apologies. That wasn't even deliberate, I have no idea how it occurred, all I did was edit the original post, and it duplicated.

It's cool 

Uh, you may want to put number 50 in a spoiler box though, as it is directly tied to Warbreaker's magic system. Also @Tamriel Wolfsbaine you may want to edit your quote of @Longshot97 so that it is also in a spoiler box.

22 hours ago, Longshot97 said:

This leads to another idea I had, which potentially solves the limitation kandra have with skeletons.

50:

Spoiler

Awakened Substitute Skeletons. They could Command a length of rope to "support movements" or something similar, and use it as a means of supporting their mass to create, for example, a leg. They wouldn't have to command it to perform specific movements, just to follow the movements the muscle surrounding the cloth and provide enough resistance to support the limb. This could allow them to assume virtually any form at all with just a coil of rope that they shape with their bodily mass. I don't know if I'm explaining this coherently.

 

Warbreaker spoilers: 

Spoiler

That sounds like a very plausible idea; Awakened ropes could grant the Kandra far greater flexibility and added strength than through what they could normally achieve. Additionally, the Kandra wouldn't have to worry about blunt-force-trauma breaking their bones (such as falling off a building, getting hit by a truck, or smashed by an angry Koloss) as their "bones" would be flexible.

This is a very good idea .

 

22 hours ago, Longshot97 said:

51: Element Isolation. Especially useful in scientific endeavors, a kandra could command their body to digest everything but a specific element/molecule/compound, and store it/eject it. Could be an effective way of creating supplements, or purifying materials, such as water. 

Interesting. Perhaps with some practice they could do so, though that would depend on whether they can alter things as small as DNA, molecules, and proteins. 

Honestly, it would be interesting to see if future Scadrial learns of all the ways Kandra can build/create/transform and if they could find a way to artificially grow and use detached Kandra flesh to make almost any biological product they needed.

8 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

 

@Trusk'our do you think kandra would meet the same difficulties in creating feathers that they do hair?  What about fingernails and teeth? 

Yes, unfortunately; they can't seem to make non-living materials with their abilities for some reason, so basically anything that isn't fleshy is a no-go with them.

8 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Gotta add a new one. Not sure if it can count as a legit number as it will have to contain some Stormlight spoilers:

  Hide contents

#52 maybe: Gemhearts.  Taking them and using those bonds or perhaps creating a bond of your own for your own gemheart bonds?  Faster, lighter, the possibilities are as great as there are spren built for the job. 

 

I'd say that you can count it as long as it's in a spoiler box. Minor SA spoilers:

Spoiler

A Kandra would need to do more than just eat a Rosharan Gemheart and its corpse to Bond a Spren; the Connection isn't there, so something like Hemalurgy would be required to complete the Bonding process.

Quote

Stormlight Three Update #4 (Oct. 5, 2016)

NeedsAdjustment

Would a kandra be able to imitate a chasmfiend, given enough time?

Brandon Sanderson

It's not about time, it's about mass. A little one, sure. A full grown one? They'd crush themselves. They'd need to be able to make use of symbiotic spren bonds from Roshar, which isn't just a matter of digesting a body.

Could be very interesting to see a Chasmfiend Kandra though. It would be terrifying.

 

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

3 hours ago, Trusk'our said:

Warbreaker spoilers: 

  Hide contents

That sounds like a very plausible idea; Awakened ropes could grant the Kandra far greater flexibility and added strength than through what they could normally achieve. Additionally, the Kandra wouldn't have to worry about blunt-force-trauma breaking their bones (such as falling off a building, getting hit by a truck, or smashed by an angry Koloss) as their "bones" would be flexible.

This is a very good idea .

Spoiler

Do you suppose that these awakened bones from rope, or an awakened rope to provide the rigid structure needed to hold up the mass of the body, would be capable of changing their form as you wanted them to without a need for some separate command?  

I guess the commands to give strength understand when there is a need to jump.  I also assume the commands to act as hands would bring with it some knowledge of when and how to act.  

I wonder if the rope or, more likely, ropes used in this way would be able to bend and meld to shapes that the kandra is wanting them to take on. 

To go from bipedal to quadrupeds is interesting on its own.  The ability to change the density of their muscles for strength benefits also suggests that a kandra could stretch their mass in a much thinner layer creating some bat type wings.  The kandra could even shape themselves as an aquatic mammal.  

If the awakened set of ropes acting as skeleton structure could change according to what the kandra wants it to be and when this could be the key to having something similar to some WoW druid running around spamming shape shifting.  

Combined with A-Bendalloy for appearance sake you could have a nearly instant transformation from a flying form to a hulking tanking form to a slender assassin form or even a fast swimming aquatic form.  

Not to mention the bones (or rope in this case) would add strength and power based on their size as well. 

 

Side question but this would kind of go with this spoiled stuff.  

Do Kandra need to perform all human functions? 

Do they rely on breathing to oxygenate their tissue?  Do they run risk of hypothermia in extreme cold or run the risk of heat injuries in hot enviorments?  

Do kandra sweat?  Do they require water as well as food? 

The feruchemy powers in combination with the spoiled skeleton hack could allow for truly epic scenes. Storing the mass in pewter to become smaller.  Storing weight for airborne builds. Tapping breath for aquatic builds.  All of these would be absurdly cool on screen.  

#53 is just a copy of that new thing F Tin can do. Just not feel pain. Not only could you turn pain off but you could do it with minimal risk.  For tin to turn off pain opens them up to not knowing when they are hurt.  For a kandra to turn off pain... whats it matter they don't really have serious threats to their health in the form of physical trauma anyways.  Maybe... maybe they enter a pit of acid and don't realize their flesh is melting away until it is to late.  

#54 not sure if this should count but in the spirit of replicating bodily functions... could a kandra escape the acid burning death by recreating the membranes that help produce the mucus-bicarbonate barrier? Even a few seconds of acid damage reduction could buy our super kandra the time needed to get out of the situation.  

[Longshot97]

On 10/5/2023 at 11:59 PM, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Do you suppose that these awakened bones from rope, or an awakened rope to provide the rigid structure needed to hold up the mass of the body, would be capable of changing their form as you wanted them to without a need for some separate command?  

I guess the commands to give strength understand when there is a need to jump.  I also assume the commands to act as hands would bring with it some knowledge of when and how to act.  

I wonder if the rope or, more likely, ropes used in this way would be able to bend and meld to shapes that the kandra is wanting them to take on. 

To go from bipedal to quadrupeds is interesting on its own.  The ability to change the density of their muscles for strength benefits also suggests that a kandra could stretch their mass in a much thinner layer creating some bat type wings.  The kandra could even shape themselves as an aquatic mammal.  

If the awakened set of ropes acting as skeleton structure could change according to what the kandra wants it to be and when this could be the key to having something similar to some WoW druid running around spamming shape shifting.  

Combined with A-Bendalloy for appearance sake you could have a nearly instant transformation from a flying form to a hulking tanking form to a slender assassin form or even a fast swimming aquatic form.  

Not to mention the bones (or rope in this case) would add strength and power based on their size as well. 

 

#54 not sure if this should count but in the spirit of replicating bodily functions... could a kandra escape the acid burning death by recreating the membranes that help produce the mucus-bicarbonate barrier? Even a few seconds of acid damage reduction could buy our super kandra the time needed to get out of the situation.  

Oh, I like that one. And it makes some sense, kandra don't digest themselves any more than humans do. 

55. Prevention of Blood Clotting. Imagine a kandra coating their claws (or stinger, pincer, spine, teeth, etc) in anticoagulants, thus ensuring that a victim would be hard-pressed to avoid bleeding out. Not so sure of the science behind this, but they are kandra.

56. Allergic Reaction Triggering. Depending on if the kandra is aware of a person's biological sensitivities, they could introduce the appropriate compounds to the subject. Depending on the target, it could be delivered through the respiratory, digestive, or integumentary (sorry, skin) systems. 

57. Emotion Detection. This goes beyond intuitively "reading people" to detecting specific hormones via scent. Could be useful in detecting lies.

Really, the 101 goal is looking more and more feasible.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

8 minutes ago, Longshot97 said:

Oh, I like that one. And it makes some sense, kandra don't digest themselves any more than humans do. 

55. Prevention of Blood Clotting. Imagine a kandra coating their claws (or stinger, pincer, spine, teeth, etc) in anticoagulants, thus ensuring that a victim would be hard-pressed to avoid bleeding out. Not so sure of the science behind this, but they are kandra.

56. Allergic Reaction Triggering. Depending on if the kandra is aware of a person's biological sensitivities, they could introduce the appropriate compounds to the subject. Depending on the target, it could be delivered through the respiratory, digestive, or integumentary (sorry, skin) systems. 

57. Emotion Detection. This goes beyond intuitively "reading people" to detecting specific hormones via scent. Could be useful in detecting lies.

Really, the 101 goal is looking more and more feasible.

Definitely! @ #55, If a kandra could replicate the venom glands and production of something like a Viper or Taipan then you would certainly interrupt the clotting process. 

Great now I have images of a Kandra creating some sweet exoskeleton plates and a huge stinger like tail and becoming a giant scorpion producing and injecting the most leathal venoms known. 

@Trusk'our Could a Kandra reproduce venom glands? This would go side by side wondering if they could reproduce the ability to spin silk?  Can they ramp up the process in scale to something more human size? 

More awakening spoilers ahead:

Spoiler

The way spider silk is if a Kandra set their mind to it they could potentially create the very silk and ropes that they will awaken to use as their own skeletal system. If awakened ropes are spooky then Awakened spider silk that same size should be far spookier. Taking this to the extreme, if they could spin their own silk they could even weave their own clothing out of it and gain all of the armoring benefits of that. Awaken it and now you have investiture resistant spidersilk garb in addition to potentially having some retractable stingers in your wrists to inject some of the most potent toxins known.  

I imagine innate investiture could protect many in the cosmere from a lot of these toxins but.. what about retractable debilitation syringes filled with the toxin used against other Kandra in SoS? 

 

[Trusk'our]

9 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

 

@Trusk'our Could a Kandra reproduce venom glands? This would go side by side wondering if they could reproduce the ability to spin silk?  Can they ramp up the process in scale to something more human size? 

I see no reasons they couldn't, as venom producing glands aren't tied to things they can't replicate.

9 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

More awakening spoilers ahead:

  Hide contents

The way spider silk is if a Kandra set their mind to it they could potentially create the very silk and ropes that they will awaken to use as their own skeletal system. If awakened ropes are spooky then Awakened spider silk that same size should be far spookier. Taking this to the extreme, if they could spin their own silk they could even weave their own clothing out of it and gain all of the armoring benefits of that. Awaken it and now you have investiture resistant spidersilk garb in addition to potentially having some retractable stingers in your wrists to inject some of the most potent toxins known.  

I imagine innate investiture could protect many in the cosmere from a lot of these toxins but.. what about retractable debilitation syringes filled with the toxin used against other Kandra in SoS? 

 

Spoiler

 

Awakened spider silk ropes to bypass their limitation of not being able to create their own skeletons? I think that could be a viable work around. I think we can count that as #58 on the list.

As for resisting the syringes filled with the Kandra melting toxin with the Heightenings, I'd say that's a possibility. The Kandra may also be able to produce specialized proteins that neutralize said toxin with practice.

 

 

Edited October 7, 2023 by Trusk'our

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

2 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

I see no reasons they couldn't, as venom producing glands aren't tied to things they can't replicate.

  Hide contents

 

Awakened spider silk ropes to bypass their limitation of not being able to create their own skeletons? I think that could be a viable work around. I think we can count that as #58 on the list.

As for resisting the syringes filled with the Kandra melting toxin with the Heightenings, I'd say that's a possibility. The Kandra may also be able to produce specialized proteins that neutralize said toxin with practice.

 

 

Something neat I just found out of curiosities sake. This amazing body armor is made from spider silk | We Are The Mighty.  Being able to replicate to scale spider silk and venom could be combined to one heck of a scary combo. Create your own spidersilk body armor (which could be worn inside) and bioweapons combined with more conventional weapons could lead to something truly terrifying. 

Spoiler

Awakening the armor would only amplify these benefits granting shard resistant plating. 

 

[Longshot97]

On 10/5/2023 at 11:59 PM, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

Side question but this would kind of go with this spoiled stuff.  

Do Kandra need to perform all human functions? 

Do they rely on breathing to oxygenate their tissue?  Do they run risk of hypothermia in extreme cold or run the risk of heat injuries in hot enviorments?  

Do kandra sweat?  Do they require water as well as food? 

 

This is really important to establish, yeah. We should have done this from the start, and looked at everything we know kandra can do, and go from there.

Staring with their base "mistwraith" form, we know that in their base form of muscle and mass, they require food and water (recall TenSoon's imprisonment: they fed him and gave him water) to survive, like any other form of biological life. We know they possess consciousness, so preservation of sanity is a factor, unless the Blessing of Presence factors in. They are capable of limited mobility, hampered by their lack of a skeleton. They possess tactile and olfactory sense, but cannot see or hear (well, hearing is limited).

With a skeleton, they gain all base physical attributes of the former creature, such as mobility and size. This can be adjusted based on the mass of a kandra and the placement of muscle. Organs are subject to the kandra's discretion, as are their location. We know them incapable of speech without lungs, and sight without eyes. Despite this, they need no stomach, tongue, brain, nose, or others for their intended purposes.

There are certain things kandra can and cannot generate. They can, for example, produce organs. They cannot, for example, produce bones. Whether or not a kandra can produce venom, venom sacs, spinnerets, or such is unconfirmed, and very much in the string-and-thumbtacks zone. Still, it shouldn't be too much of an issue for theorizing, because they could simply remove them from creatures they digest.

Addressing these questions specifically,

1. Do they require water as well as food? Kandra require food and water, as shown by TenSoon in captivity in the kandra homeland.
2. Do kandra sweat? I would venture that they do not need to sweat, but could choose to do so. Sweating is the body's method of regulating temperature.
3. Do they run risk of hypothermia in extreme cold or run the risk of heat injuries in hot enviorments? I would theorize that extreme temperatures would become very inconvenient for them, and eventually fatal, but less so than humans. They require sustenance like us, so overheating would burn water reserves. Extreme cold could also cause them to burn reserves by shivering.
   1.  This brings up the question of homeostasis. Do kandra need to maintain a consistent temperature? This is very much in the string-and-thumbtacks zone, but I would guess that they do. After all, they require food and water to gain energy, and that energy is lost very quickly without temperature regulation.
4. Do they rely on breathing to oxygenate their tissue? I don't think it's ever explicitly stated, but I would guess they would. Humans require oxygen for ATP synthesis (to create energy), and if kandra were once humans, but rendered to a base of sapient muscle mass, it could be extrapolated that they still require most things a human would for survival. As for breathing specifically, they don't need lungs in their mistwraith form, but need it to speak. They could be constantly absorbing oxygen from the atmosphere
5. Do kandra need to perform all human functions? Strictly speaking, no. They cannot reproduce, and thus do not require genitalia. Their sentience is dependent on their mass and their Blessings, so brains aren't absolutely necessary. Still, it stands to reason that in human form, kandra would be subject to many of a human's biological needs, such as shivering, producing and circulating blood, and so on.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Longshot97
Additional information.

[Trusk'our]

18 minutes ago, Longshot97 said:

1. Do kandra need to perform all human functions? Strictly speaking, no. They cannot reproduce, and thus do not require genitalia. Their sentience is dependent on their mass and their Blessings, so brains aren't absolutely necessary. Still, it stands to reason that in human form, kandra would be subject to many of a human's biological needs, such as shivering, producing and circulating blood, and so on.

Kandra don't have a centralized nervous system, but they do have brain matter spread throughout their bodies. The spikes merely pierce the blockage between their physical and cognitive aspects.

Quote

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/192/#e4147

zas678

TenSoon wonders, and I wonder too- How can kandra think and be sentient without brains? Doesn't the body need a physical coordinator to relay between the Physical and Cognitive realm? Or do the spikes do a good enough job with that?

Brandon Sanderson

I imagine kandra having a non-centralized nervous system, with brain power spread through their bodies. Well, non-centralized is probably the wrong way to say it. They have lobes of thought and memory attached to muscles here and there, and don't have a single 'brain.' They certainly have brain-like material, though.

 

18 minutes ago, Longshot97 said:

1. Do they rely on breathing to oxygenate their tissue? I don't think it's ever explicitly stated, but I would guess they would. Humans require oxygen for ATP synthesis (to create energy), and if kandra were once humans, but rendered to a base of sapient muscle mass, it could be extrapolated that they still require most things a human would for survival. As for breathing specifically, they don't need lungs in their mistwraith form, but need it to speak. They could be constantly absorbing oxygen from the atmosphere

ToES spoilers:

Spoiler

Ulaam mentions that he's figured out how to live without a heartbeat. I bet he uses a form of his shapeshifting to compensate, using that to move things around in his body as necessary, since Kandra shapeshifting seems to be "free" and either uses very little energy compared to the body's natural processes to accomplish what needs to be done or is merely a Realmatic hack. But either way it seems to be cheaper than using normal processes to stay alive.

 

Quote

1. Do they run risk of hypothermia in extreme cold or run the risk of heat injuries in hot enviorments? I would theorize that extreme temperatures would become very inconvenient for them, and eventually fatal, but less so than humans. They require sustenance like us, so overheating would burn water reserves. Extreme cold could also cause them to burn reserves by shivering.
   1.  This brings up the question of homeostasis. Do kandra need to maintain a consistent temperature? This is very much in the string-and-thumbtacks zone, but I would guess that they do. After all, they require food and water to gain energy, and that energy is lost very quickly without temperature regulation.

More ToES spoilers:

Spoiler

The Sorceress mentions that a good fire can kill a Kandra, suggesting that extreme temperature or at least the chemical processes it does to the body would kill them. So temperature is something they'd need to regulate through normal, indirect means, such as having a quicker metabolism or having layers to keep warm, sweating to stay cool, or having anti-freeze chemicals in the blood to survive completely frigid environments.

 

Edited October 7, 2023 by Trusk'our

[Longshot97]

16 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

ToES spoilers:

  Hide contents

Ulaam mentions that he's figured out how to live without a heartbeat. I bet he uses a form of his shapeshifting to compensate, since their shapeshifting seems to be "free" and either uses very little energy to accomplish or is merely a Realmatic hack. But either way it seems to be cheaper than using normal processes to stay alive.

 

Oh my god, WAIT.

59. Photosynthesis. Alright, hear me out. What if a kandra learned to create ATP the same way plants do: absorbing sunlight? I very much doubt any could do so instinctively, but with sufficient scientific knowledge and enough trial and error, could they learn to absorb sunlight and produce energy?
It's possible that kandra would be unable to meet their energy needs using a plant's methods of sustenance, but at the very least, it could supplement their reserves. And if not, they would basically never require food again.

On a similar, far more spoiler-y note: (Stormlight)

Spoiler

60. Larkin Physiology. If one of them gets their hands on a larkin, they could gain the ability to consume Investiture. This could be incredible for them. And we have established precedent with the Sleepless, and how they cross-bred their hordelings to produce Investiture-draining variants. And this wouldn't even require the physical contact A-Chromium demands!

 

Edited October 7, 2023 by Longshot97
Grammar.

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

14 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Kandra don't have a centralized nervous system, but they do have brain matter spread throughout their bodies. The spikes merely pierce the blockage between their physical and cognitive aspects.

 

ToES spoilers:

  Reveal hidden contents

Ulaam mentions that he's figured out how to live without a heartbeat. I bet he uses a form of his shapeshifting to compensate, using that to move things around in his body as necessary, since Kandra shapeshifting seems to be "free" and either uses very little energy compared to the body's natural processes to accomplish what needs to be done or is merely a Realmatic hack. But either way it seems to be cheaper than using normal processes to stay alive.

 

More ToES spoilers:

  Hide contents

The Sorceress mentions that a good fire can kill a Kandra, suggesting that extreme temperature or at least the chemical processes it does to the body would kill them. So temperature is something they'd need to regulate through normal, indirect means, such as having a quicker metabolism or having layers to keep warm, sweating to stay cool, or having anti-freeze chemicals in the blood to survive completely frigid environments.

 

Haha I love casually keeping some antifreeze running through their blood to survive frigid temps. is that #61? 

1 minute ago, Longshot97 said:

Oh my god, WAIT.

59. Photosynthesis. Alright, hear me out. What if a kandra learned to create ATP the same way plants do: absorbing sunlight? I very much doubt any could do so instinctively, but with sufficient scientific knowledge and enough trial and error, could they learn to absorb sunlight and produce energy?
It's possible that kandra would be unable to meet their energy needs using a plant's methods of sustenance, but at the very least, it could supplement their reserves. And if not, they would basically never require food again.

On a similar, far more spoiler-y note: (Stormlight)

  Hide contents

60. Larkin Physiology. If one of them gets their hands on a larkin, they could gain the ability to consume Investiture. This could be incredible for them. And we have precedent with the Sleepless, and how they cross-bred their hordelings to produce Investiture-draining variants. And this wouldn't even require the physical contact A-Chromium demands!

 

Spoiler

Straight up the Larkin was a think I wanted to try to recreate via a kandra. I was thinking they would need A chromium to do it but maybe that is a process that they could replicate. If so... and combined with the awakened ropes for skeletons. You could have a person walking around looking like a climber with some excess rope hanging around who could swap into some flying creature who eats investiture, spins webs, and is venomous. 

Though this would likely require some feruchemical iron or pewter to pull off. 

In regards to eating and sustenance... This is gross but could a Kandra store extra mass via F pewter constantly and then tap a bunch at once, detaching itself leaving a pile of meat, and then cook it up for others to consume?  I imagine they could replicate some good old tenderloin no? What about tapping F pewter detaching part of themselves and then consuming that themselves? Would that be self-cannibalism? 

Trying to think along the lines of what we know F pewter does. Sazed gets smaller and scrawnier when using it. A 200lb kandra could become a 190lb kandra (not storing weight as iron does not increase mass when tapped only the effects of weight and only on selective roolz of coolz stuff or else they could punch harder). If you stored enough strength to cause a 5% change in your mass for a day and then tapped it all later on how much mass would you be able to remove as a Kandra?  Once detached is that going to disappear into thin air? If a Kandra doubled their mass via tapping pewter and then they detached and left half of that 200lbs of muscle laying on the ground would they disappear once they stop tapping pewter? 

I'm worried that this is going into a really weird direction but I cant help it. Its like an itch I must scratch. Gaining the benefits of so many other powers just by having F pewter seems OP but that is what it is.

Now I am ready for some Kandra vs Radiant stuff haha (just joking please don't soulcast my happy fantasy away. I like the seclusion of having these thoughts in this thread). 

[Trusk'our]

30 minutes ago, Longshot97 said:

59. Photosynthesis. Alright, hear me out. What if a kandra learned to create ATP the same way plants do: absorbing sunlight? I very much doubt any could do so instinctively, but with sufficient scientific knowledge and enough trial and error, could they learn to absorb sunlight and produce energy?
It's possible that kandra would be unable to meet their energy needs using a plant's methods of sustenance, but at the very least, it could supplement their reserves. And if not, they would basically never require food again.

And if that doesn't work directly for some reason, they could follow in the footsteps of Elysia chlorotica, also called emerald green sea slug or eastern emerald elysia, which eats plants on occasion but then preserves their chloroplasts in their own epithelial cells to photosynthesize. This makes it so that they only have to eat once a year. A clever Kandra could use this strategy as well, though I think that they'd have to drastically increase their surface area to make efficient use of it.

I found out about this amazing slug on a TED ED video; These animals are also plants … wait, what? - Luka Seamus Wright - YouTube

30 minutes ago, Longshot97 said:

On a similar, far more spoiler-y note: (Stormlight)

  Reveal hidden contents

60. Larkin Physiology. If one of them gets their hands on a larkin, they could gain the ability to consume Investiture. This could be incredible for them. And we have established precedent with the Sleepless, and how they cross-bred their hordelings to produce Investiture-draining variants. And this wouldn't even require the physical contact A-Chromium demands!

 

Spoiler

That's probably more related to an Invesiture-based adaptation in the Larkin, meaning that the Kandra would need to use a hack to get it, such as through Hemalurgy.

Quote

Haha I love casually keeping some antifreeze running through their blood to survive frigid temps. is that #61? 

Naw, it's #15 actually 

Quote

In regards to eating and sustenance... This is gross but could a Kandra store extra mass via F pewter constantly and then tap a bunch at once, detaching itself leaving a pile of meat, and then cook it up for others to consume?  I imagine they could replicate some good old tenderloin no? What about tapping F pewter detaching part of themselves and then consuming that themselves? Would that be self-cannibalism? 

Trying to think along the lines of what we know F pewter does. Sazed gets smaller and scrawnier when using it. A 200lb kandra could become a 190lb kandra (not storing weight as iron does not increase mass when tapped only the effects of weight and only on selective roolz of coolz stuff or else they could punch harder). If you stored enough strength to cause a 5% change in your mass for a day and then tapped it all later on how much mass would you be able to remove as a Kandra?  Once detached is that going to disappear into thin air? If a Kandra doubled their mass via tapping pewter and then they detached and left half of that 200lbs of muscle laying on the ground would they disappear once they stop tapping pewter? 

I'm worried that this is going into a really weird direction but I cant help it. Its like an itch I must scratch. Gaining the benefits of so many other powers just by having F pewter seems OP but that is what it is.

Eh, I think about grosser stuff with most of my Hemalurgy hypothesize anyway @Tamriel Wolfsbaine. Just check out the one I posted a few minutes ago.

Anyway, I don't know if this would work- it would depend on whether the mass of muscle would shrink to its original size after being removed from the body, which seems likely to me as it would since it is a temporary change. You could maybe keep it around as other body parts as a Kandra if you digested it and changed its shape, but I would guess that it would still be temporary and would only last as long as you could tap it.

Honestly, that might be able to be used to the Kandra's advantage as well, such as if they create a large web of flesh extending out from themselves by tapping pewter, then immediately sucking it all back in as they stop tapping it (such as if they were using #4 to have a spy network through a building) to escape enemies without leaving a trace. Or you could make a meat-wall to block enemies but still be able to move quickly by drawing it all back in at a moment's notice. 

It would be particularly easy for a Kandra to fuel such extravagent uses of F-pewter as well, seeing as how they could just build up a ton of muscle naturally and store it away to be able to move around without issue.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Trusk'our

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

12 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

And if that doesn't work directly for some reason, they could follow in the footsteps of Elysia chlorotica, also called emerald green sea slug or eastern emerald elysia, which eats plants on occasion but then preserves their chloroplasts in their own epithelial cells to photosynthesize. This makes it so that they only have to eat once a year. A clever Kandra could use this strategy as well, though I think that they'd have to drastically increase their surface area to make efficient use of it.

I found out about this amazing slug on a TED ED video; These animals are also plants … wait, what? - Luka Seamus Wright - YouTube

  Reveal hidden contents

That's probably more related to an Invesiture-based adaptation in the Larkin, meaning that the Kandra would need to use a hack to get it, such as through Hemalurgy.

Naw, it's #15 actually 

Eh, I think about grosser stuff with most of my Hemalurgy hypothesize anyway @Tamriel Wolfsbaine. Just check out the one I posted a few minutes ago.

Anyway, I don't know if this would work- it would depend on whether the mass of muscle would shrink to its original size after being removed from the body, which seems likely to me as it would since it is a temporary change. You could maybe keep it around as other body parts as a Kandra if you digested it and changed its shape, but I would guess that it would still be temporary and would only last as long as you could tap it.

Honestly, that might be able to be used to the Kandra's advantage as well, such as if they create a large web of flesh extending out from themselves by tapping pewter, then immediately sucking it all back in as they stop tapping it (such as if they were using #4 to have a spy network through a building) to escape enemies without leaving a trace.

Honestly I cant remember #50 at this point. They all just become cool ideas.  

Can I toss this as #61 then with the asterisks that it is dependent on F pewter? Continually being able to grow back and shed limbs

Spoiler

I have pictured that a kandra cut by a shardblade would likely lose access to the muscle below the cut but they can shed that. Would F pewter allow them to simply tap and shift mass around enough to fill that blank? Get some hydra action going. Every time you cut off a limb a kandra with awakened rope filling in for skeletal structure and some form of feruchemical hackery can just grow back 3 more to replace it. 

I really dont know if F pewter fits the bill here or if F bendalloy is more important. It is interesting that pewter gives mass needed to support the strength gain and that mass seems to disapear when you stop using it, where as bendalloy allows you to draw the energy and use it and that doesnt go anywhere except to sustain yourself. I dont know if there is a WoB for this but in the MAG (which is of course not entirely cannon) tapping large amounts of Bendalloy actually makes you appear fatter... 

So thanks to the MAG my mind is clouded when it comes to these two things. 

Would a Kandra with F bendalloy be able to get bigger or smaller as they store? Is that specific to Pewter? If a Kandra tapped F pewter and became bigger and then someone took a bite out of them before they stopped tapping would the bite of flesh vanish in the persons mouth? Would the Kandra be missing that much of themselves when they stop tapping? Bendalloy is tapped and used and it never comes back. Strength is too. But the mass generated seems like a totally seperate mechanism.

The shinking mass of pewter as one stores strength is a side effect of getting smaller and weaker. Gaining that mass back is a side effect of being stronger. The strength itself is being used as you get it back. The mass seems almost a biproduct of it and once that strength is used the mass would disappear anyway... but if you cut it off while using that strength arent you still losing all of the strength that went with it?  Doesnt really make sense that it would be lost forever... Sazed wouldnt have lost his strength he was tapping if he had his arm chopped off (granted the metalmind wasnt attached to it) but we dont know if that arm would have stayed that size or shrunk back to normal.  

There is a new question to ask for a WoB "If a brute is tapping strength and their muscles get bigger but they get an arm chopped off, does it shrink back to the way it was before?"   

This could either make the Kandra more busted than I thought or it makes me terrified of having a Kandra tapping pewter in general. How do you differentiate the mass of muscle you are gaining from the feruchemy from the mass of muscle that is there. In a Kandras case all muscle falls under a single umbrella. It isnt assigned to anything. It is just meat. Losing an arm means you lose 50% of your bicep and 50% of your bodies tricep. For a Kandra who can regrow limbs they just lose 5% of their meat. What if you double your meat when tapping and get cut in half? How does the spiritual realm know which half was you to start and which half was you to end? 

[.....]

What about a kandra that had feruchemical health while they stored they could probably replenish their immune system using shape-shifting to negate the negative side effects and then it could have nearly infinite health stored up I think that would be really cool and they could be constantly storing help and maybe not even need it except for in like acid situations they could escape from Acid that way because they storing fixing it with their shape-shifting they might need to eat more but easy to solve and then when like they got attacked by acid or burned they could tap helth and be fine 

Edited October 9, 2023 by .....

[Trusk'our]

4 hours ago, ..... said:

What about a kandra that had feruchemical health while they stored they could probably replenish their immune system using shape-shifting to negate the negative side effects and then it could have nearly infinite health stored up I think that would be really cool and they could be constantly storing help and maybe not even need it except for in like acid situations they could escape from Acid that way because they storing fixing it with their shape-shifting they might need to eat more but easy to solve and then when like they got attacked by acid or burned they could tap helth and be fine 

A Kandra almost certainly could find uses for F-gold, such as surviving acid or using it to grow extra tissue in a pinch.

I don't know how it would affect their immune system though, but my instincts say they would be at least somewhat impaired. Even if the Kandra could continue to function at a relatively normal level while storing health, I doubt they could store enough to compare to a Compounder.

Still, F-gold would be one of the better metals for a Kandra to invest in, I'd think.

[.....]

Seeing as kandra don't age I'm wondering could one of them store up age and if they could couldn't they technically store up infinite and then they could maybe have someone pay them a lot of money for them to constantly Supply them with atium metalminds that were full and then they could stay young forever 

[Tamriel Wolfsbaine]

17 minutes ago, ..... said:

Seeing as kandra don't age I'm wondering could one of them store up age and if they could couldn't they technically store up infinite and then they could maybe have someone pay them a lot of money for them to constantly Supply them with atium metalminds that were full and then they could stay young forever 

I believe Kandra do age... just very very slowly. The first generation are feeling it for sure by era 2.  

That said a Kandra could make great money filling most metalminds I would say.  

@Trusk'our #62: this requires access to some bendalloy medallions. Battlefield clean up. Turn the corpses into nutrition and store it into medallions. Move to the cognitive realm and make bank selling sustenance via full medallions to those traveling through the cognitive without direction and other tricks. 

[Trusk'our]

12 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

I believe Kandra do age... just very very slowly. The first generation are feeling it for sure by era 2.  

This is true. Kandra age, though it is very, very slow and they don't suffer from most of the ailments that humans do when aging.

Also, I don't recall ever hearing about the First Generation in era 2. Did they pass away as the Second Generation did perhaps?

Quote

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/357/#e10583

Reilly Russell

Are kandra/mistwraiths naturally immortal? If so, is it magically sustained, or natural, like the immortal jellyfish? If not, what is the natural lifespan of a kandra/mistwraith?

Brandon Sanderson

No, they are not immortal, but they are very, very long lived. If you look at the First Generation, you'll see an example of aging happening. They will eventually die of old age. They don't suffer from some of the ailments that, say, humans do, and it takes a bit longer, and there is some magical sustaining of them going on.

It is also possible that the First Generation is aging more noticeably than the other Kandra as they were born human and have a more deeply ingrained human nature than the others. For example, we don't see TenSoon have the same problems In SoS as the First Generation despite being about as old as they were when last seen in HoA.

Quote

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/270/#e8023

Brandon Sanderson

The First Generation Arrive

The First Generation are different from the other generations. Other kandra were born from mistwraiths that had bred true, becoming their own species. The Firsts, however, were humans who were changed directly into kandra. They aren't as good at holding their bodies together as creatures who were born first as mistwraiths. Someone like TenSoon carries with him a heritage of intuition and instinct gained by his previous life as a mistwraith.

The Firsts don't have that. They haven't practiced taking new bodies—in fact, only a couple of them have ever even done such a thing. They've spent their lives in the Homeland and don't know how to use their powers. The skin droops from their bones, and they look—and feel—old, something that doesn't happen to other kandra.

Here, oddly, is the first climax of the TenSoon chapters. He's not there to see it, but his words are what finally convinced the Firsts to come down from their alcoves and face the truth that the end has come.

Also, Moshe, I still think those should be podiums rather than lecterns.

 

[Xiahida]

13 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said:

#62: this requires access to some bendalloy medallions. Battlefield clean up. Turn the corpses into nutrition and store it into medallions. Move to the cognitive realm and make bank selling sustenance via full medallions to those traveling through the cognitive without direction and other tricks. 

I'm not sure if these are spoilers but just in case SA spoilers

Quote

Mraize is trying to get Stormlight offworld but since its invested it gets 'heavier' Yumi spoilers

Quote

Yumi and Painter are connected and get pulled as if by a bungee cord if they get too far apart. Is this the 'heavier' part or some other interaction

 

Maybe when space travel is made you can sell these for interplanetary trips?

[Trusk'our]

13 minutes ago, Xiahida said:

I'm not sure if these are spoilers but just in case SA spoilers

Maybe when space travel is made you can sell these for interplanetary trips?

Those are quotes you used, not spoilers (and yes, since this is the Mistborn Forum we want to box them)