Tamriel Wolfsbaine Posted August 17, 2023 Posted August 17, 2023 I was trying to think how much time could be dilated in somewhere like Silverlight. Perhaps the time dilation changes based on your proximity to wherever that centerpoint is? I think 1 day to a year would be a decent amount. For 365 years worth of skipping you would spend a year in Silverlight. This could allow someone to age only 16 and a half years or so between the the last desolation and the this one right? The truly ageless world hoppers could spend ample time on each planet away from the time dilation without concern but I also think this sort of potential time dilation would allow more mortal worldhoppers to make their appearances and leave their marks on worlds without going absolutely insane. Maybe 1 day in silverlight = 1 year on the cosmere standard being Scadrial would be too much dilation for things to work. Maybe it is shorter. To think of it in terms of months if the time was just dilated to a 1:30 ratio or 1 day is roughly 1 month then it would be about 200 years of silverlight time to fill the 6000 year gap or whatever. That really isn't too bad considering the potential agelessness in the cosmere or highly invested individuals gaining decades and decades of extra lifespan. I feel like anything less than that would start to require some form of shedding memories but I could be wrong. I am sure that naturally long lived beings will be far better suited for hundreds of years worth of memories but for the more human races I feel like it would be pretty hard. What are others opinions and thoughts on this? In the 1day:1year scenario I can totally see Silverlight pubs being that stereotypical quest hub. You hang out there and hear about all of the happenings from different planets. Some worldhoppers literally waiting out a generation or two before checking back in on the planets they are interested in. Or deciding where to go next based on the stories coming from those cities? Taking a few minutes to hop down to a planet and take inventory before coming back (maybe through attending a few social events)? I know this is all mostly speculation. I am trying to wrap my head around the day in the life of a cosmere scholar and their abilities to not go insane.
Quantus he/him Posted August 17, 2023 Posted August 17, 2023 Hmmm....If that much time is lost every time you go to Silverlight, I dont think it would be able to operate as a postal hub for the Silverlight Mercantile. 1
alder24 Posted August 17, 2023 Posted August 17, 2023 15 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: I was trying to think how much time could be dilated in somewhere like Silverlight. Why do you think there is any time dilation in Silverlight? If you would lose so much time in Silverlight I doubt it would be such a hub like it is now, as every time you go there you would have to say goodbye to your family outside. Just because some people are ageless, doesn't mean that it has to do something with Silverlight. Members of 17th Shard or Ghostbloods are ageless, and they aren't from Silverlight. Silverlight is a massive city, full of universities and even dragons - massive time dilation would simply isolate it from Cosmere. 1
Firesong she/her Posted August 17, 2023 Posted August 17, 2023 (edited) My theory is that is isn't some universal thing over all of Silverlight, it wouldn't be able to properly function as it does if it was like that. What I do think is it is more akin to like, a chamber or something they can opt into that does the dilation. That way they just are like, "I need to pass x years" and can go in and pass that long. Maybe it has to do with the 17th Shard, they have a crapton of Investiture there that essentially is comparable to like, a Psuedo-Shard, and they can use that to create dilation. Also, if it was like that, they wouldn't be able to have any universities, I feel. It would only have existed for 27.39 years if we assume it was made around the Shattering (extreme assumption, most likely was made far later). It would also not be able to diverge enough to have its own very recognizable accent (TLM shows they do have a recognizable accent amongst those born and raised there). More evidence, Iyatil was not born on Scadrial, but she has South Scadrian heritage and has the distinctive use of masks, which likely began to develop after the rise of the Lord Ruler, around 1300 years before Stormlight. She would be 3.5 years old if she was born and raised in Silverlight. Yet she looks like a grown woman. This implies non-trivial dilation, at least to that degree, is not universal to Silverlight. Probably why it is called Silverlight, it might be like Elantris and everything leaks Investiture as it is so saturated with it, and thus glows. Quote Why do you think there is any time dilation in Silverlight? If you would lose so much time in Silverlight I doubt it would be such a hub like it is now, as every time you go there you would have to say goodbye to your family outside. Just because some people are ageless, doesn't mean that it has to do something with Silverlight. Members of 17th Shard or Ghostbloods are ageless, and they aren't from Silverlight. Silverlight is a massive city, full of universities and even dragons - massive time dilation would simply isolate it from Cosmere. @alder24 Brandon has said there is some time dilation going on with members of the 17th Shard and Ghostbloods. He just never said that much or elaborated upon how much or what they do to experience it. Just that it is happening in a non-trivial manner. Edited August 17, 2023 by Firesong 1
Tamriel Wolfsbaine Posted August 17, 2023 Author Posted August 17, 2023 1 minute ago, alder24 said: Why do you think there is any time dilation in Silverlight? If you would lose so much time in Silverlight I doubt it would be such a hub like it is now, as every time you go there you would have to say goodbye to your family outside. Just because some people are ageless, doesn't mean that it has to do something with Silverlight. Members of 17th Shard or Ghostbloods are ageless, and they aren't from Silverlight. Silverlight is a massive city, full of universities and even dragons - massive time dilation would simply isolate it from Cosmere. 13 minutes ago, Quantus said: Hmmm....If that much time is lost every time you go to Silverlight, I dont think it would be able to operate as a postal hub for the Silverlight Mercantile. Well heard on both accounts. I didn't spend much thought on the other workings of it all. Was just trying to piece potentials together. I thought it was specified that time dilation did play a part in a lot of the worldhoppers as not all of them were truly ageless? Something about investiture concentrations? Perhaps there are specified places to allow it to happen as @Firesong said. Time dilation is a spooky thing as you can literally blink away the lifetimes of friends and family. 1
Quantus he/him Posted August 17, 2023 Posted August 17, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Firesong said: @alder24 Brandon has said there is some time dilation going on with members of the 17th Shard and Ghostbloods. He just never said that much or elaborated upon how much or what they do to experience it. Just that it is happening in a non-trivial manner. To be fair, we know there's Time Dilation for anyone that visits Sel thanks to the Dor, and both those groups seem to have so. It doesnt have to be time dilation in their headquarters, just a travel hazard. EDIT: Time Dilation WOBs that are interesting: Spoiler Quote Jeremy If vast amounts of Investiture can distort time in a similar manner as a black hole, [...] does that include Shards? Would time dilation be greater on Roshar than on Nalthis? Brandon Sanderson No, because the Shard is contained almost entirely in the Spiritual Realm. In the Spiritual Realm, time and distance have no meaning. So, what this means is: Large piles of Investiture that somehow make it into the Cognitive Realm or the Physical Realm are going to cause time dilation, but the Spiritual Realm—where it belongs—it's not going to do that. That's gonna make some exclamation points raise above the heads of some people. The Dusty Wheel Show (June 17, 2021) Quote Iceblade44 So White Sand [then Elantris] is earlier... Then how the heck old is Khriss then? Will we ever get an answer as to why every worldhopper is flippin' immortal? Brandon Sanderson There is some time-dilation going on. I'll explain it eventually; we're almost to the point where I can start talking about that. Suffice it to say that there's a mix of both actual slowing of the aging process and relative time going on, depending on the individual. Very few are actually immortal. Faera Implying that some are actually immortal? Brandon Sanderson Depends on which definition of immortal you mean. Doesn't age, but can be killed by conventional means. (You've seen some of these in the cosmere, but I'll leave you to discuss who.) Heals from wounds, but still ages. (Knights Radiant with Stormlight are like this.) Reborn when killed. (The Heralds.) Doesn't age and can heal, but dependent upon magic to stay this way, and so have distinct weakness to be exploited. (The Lord Ruler, among others.) Hive beings who are constantly losing individual members, but maintaining a persistent personality spread across all of them, immortal in that as long as too much of the hive isn't wiped out, the personality can persist. (The Sleepless.) Bits of sapient magic, eternal and endless, though the personality can be "destroyed" in specific ways. (Seons. Spren. Nightblood. Cognitive Shadows, like a certain character from Scadrial.) Shards (Really just a supercharged version of the previous category.) And then, of course, there's Hoid. I'm not going to say which category, if any, he's in. Some of these blend together--the Heralds, for example, are technically a variety of Cognitive Shadow. I'm not saying each of these categories above are distinct, intended to be the end-all definitions. They're off the cuff groupings I made to explain a point: immortality is a theme of the cosmere works--which, at their core, are experiments on what happens when men are given the power of deity. Shagomir Heals from wounds, but still ages. Would Bloodmaker Ferrings exist in this category as well? If not, what about someone Compounding Gold? Brandon Sanderson Yes, you are correct. Shagomir As a Bloodmaker ages, what keeps them from healing the damage and carrying on as a very old, but very healthy person? Do they come to a point where they can't store enough health to stave off the aches, pains, diseases, and other things that come with old age? This makes sense for traditional Feruchemy as it is end-neutral, so storing health becomes a zero sum game - eventually, you're going to get sick and you're not going to be able to overcome it with your natural healing ability no matter how much you manipulate it with a goldmind. ...Unless you've got a supply of Identity-less goldminds lying around. Would a Bloodmaker with a sufficient source of Identity-less goldminds (or the ability to compound, thus bypassing the end-neutral part of Feruchemy) eventually just die from being too old? Brandon Sanderson Basically, yes. They can heal their body to match their spiritual ideal, but some things (like some genetic diseases, and age-related illnesses) are seen as part of the ideal. Depends on several factors. Stormlight Three Update #5 (Nov. 29, 2016) Quote Questioner Does the dead body of a Shard pull at time and space, thus causing time to pass slower in that place of the cosmere, almost like a black hole? Brandon Sanderson It could go either way in the Cosmere, depending. But the answer is yes. A large amount, like a deific amount of Investiture will... any amount of Investiture will cause a bit of time dilation, but the amount you're getting from even a Shardpool is not enough to be noticeable. I mean, it is, you can notice it even on our planet if you take a jet that goes fast enough, so it is noticeable but not relevantly noticeable. We're talking about a slippage of a day or so in a year even off of a Shardpool (don't canonize me on that one, I don't have the actual numbers). But that's what we're talking about. There are are chunks of Investiture of deific nature that can cause amounts of time dilation that would be virtually impossible in our universe, without you becoming one with a black hole. There's a story I want to tell, and I don't know if I'll ever get around to telling it, about an entire society that rises and falls in several seconds of time dilation to everyone else. I want to be able to tell stories like that, and you couldn't do that in our universe, but that's part of the reason we have the Cosmere! YouTube Spoiler Stream 5 (Dec. 2, 2022) Edited August 17, 2023 by Quantus 1
alder24 Posted August 17, 2023 Posted August 17, 2023 8 minutes ago, Firesong said: @alder24 Brandon has said there is some time dilation going on with members of the 17th Shard and Ghostbloods. He just never said that much or elaborated upon how much or what they do to experience it. Just that it is happening in a non-trivial manner. I know. But this doesn't mean it has to be connected with SIlverlight. Both Ghostbloods and 17th Shard (likley) aren't from SIlverlight. It's far more likely this is about Sel: Spoiler Jeremy If vast amounts of Investiture can distort time in a similar manner as a black hole, [...] does that include Shards? Would time dilation be greater on Roshar than on Nalthis? Brandon Sanderson No, because the Shard is contained almost entirely in the Spiritual Realm. In the Spiritual Realm, time and distance have no meaning. So, what this means is: Large piles of Investiture that somehow make it into the Cognitive Realm or the Physical Realm are going to cause time dilation, but the Spiritual Realm—where it belongs—it's not going to do that. That's gonna make some exclamation points raise above the heads of some people. The Dusty Wheel Show (June 17, 2021) But I doubt it. It would be really dangerous, it has to be something more accessible for everyone with right knowledge to do that (something that would work when they are on mission - if there was some kind of device where they need to sit in, Khriss would be dead by this time): Spoiler Dirigible (paraphrased) Did Demoux achieve immortality by manipulating his Connection age? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Demoux uses the same method as most of the Seventeenth Shard. That method slows aging by a lot, but doesn't stop it completely. Arcanum Unbounded Fort Collins signing (Nov. 29, 2016) If they can send post by reading connection, why not slow down aging by manipulating connection? I think that the most sensible option: Spoiler [cut] Brandon Sanderson [cut] However, your age is part of your Connection to places, people, and times. Your soul "knows" things, like where you were born, what Investiture you are aligned with, and--yes--how old you are. When you're healing yourself, you're restoring yourself to a perfect state--when you're done, everything is good. When you're changing your age, however, you are transforming yourself to something unnatural. Against what your soul understands to be true. [cut] Yes, all of this means there are FAR more efficient means of counteracting aging than the one used by the Lord Ruler. It's a hack, and not meant to be terribly efficient. Eventually, he wouldn't have been able to maintain himself this way at all. Changing Connection (or even involving ones Cognitive Aspect a little more) would have been far more efficient, though actively more difficult. [cut[ General Reddit 2015 (Nov. 20, 2015) 6 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: I thought it was specified that time dilation did play a part in a lot of the worldhoppers as not all of them were truly ageless? Yes. Spoiler Iceblade44 So White Sand [then Elantris] is earlier... Then how the heck old is Khriss then? Will we ever get an answer as to why every worldhopper is flippin' immortal? Brandon Sanderson There is some time-dilation going on. I'll explain it eventually; we're almost to the point where I can start talking about that. Suffice it to say that there's a mix of both actual slowing of the aging process and relative time going on, depending on the individual. Very few are actually immortal. Faera Implying that some are actually immortal? Brandon Sanderson Depends on which definition of immortal you mean. Doesn't age, but can be killed by conventional means. (You've seen some of these in the cosmere, but I'll leave you to discuss who.) Heals from wounds, but still ages. (Knights Radiant with Stormlight are like this.) Reborn when killed. (The Heralds.) Doesn't age and can heal, but dependent upon magic to stay this way, and so have distinct weakness to be exploited. (The Lord Ruler, among others.) Hive beings who are constantly losing individual members, but maintaining a persistent personality spread across all of them, immortal in that as long as too much of the hive isn't wiped out, the personality can persist. (The Sleepless.) Bits of sapient magic, eternal and endless, though the personality can be "destroyed" in specific ways. (Seons. Spren. Nightblood. Cognitive Shadows, like a certain character from Scadrial.) Shards (Really just a supercharged version of the previous category.) And then, of course, there's Hoid. I'm not going to say which category, if any, he's in. Some of these blend together--the Heralds, for example, are technically a variety of Cognitive Shadow. I'm not saying each of these categories above are distinct, intended to be the end-all definitions. They're off the cuff groupings I made to explain a point: immortality is a theme of the cosmere works--which, at their core, are experiments on what happens when men are given the power of deity. Shagomir Heals from wounds, but still ages. Would Bloodmaker Ferrings exist in this category as well? If not, what about someone Compounding Gold? Brandon Sanderson Yes, you are correct. Shagomir As a Bloodmaker ages, what keeps them from healing the damage and carrying on as a very old, but very healthy person? Do they come to a point where they can't store enough health to stave off the aches, pains, diseases, and other things that come with old age? This makes sense for traditional Feruchemy as it is end-neutral, so storing health becomes a zero sum game - eventually, you're going to get sick and you're not going to be able to overcome it with your natural healing ability no matter how much you manipulate it with a goldmind. ...Unless you've got a supply of Identity-less goldminds lying around. Would a Bloodmaker with a sufficient source of Identity-less goldminds (or the ability to compound, thus bypassing the end-neutral part of Feruchemy) eventually just die from being too old? Brandon Sanderson Basically, yes. They can heal their body to match their spiritual ideal, but some things (like some genetic diseases, and age-related illnesses) are seen as part of the ideal. Depends on several factors. Stormlight Three Update #5 (Nov. 29, 2016) 1
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