Does Hoid have a shard?

[Honer]

So, I believe Hoid has a shard. This theory origionally came about when I noticed that when asked, Brandon would often only say that Hoid “did not have one of the 16 shards of adonalsium”. This leads me to believe that Hoid had one of three things happen to him.

1. Hoid carries a shard of another god.
2. Hoid carries some form of a dawnshard, maybe even a 5th one.
3. Hoid carries a 17th shard, or something like it.

So, we know from RoW that anti-investiture exists. And we also know that investiture was at one point the same thing as Adonalsium, or close to it. So I belive that anti-investiture was at one point part of another god, a sort of counterpart to adonalsium, but got shatter as a byproduct of Adonalsium shattering. The shards of this being could have been picked up by other people, including Hoid.

Another option is that hoid carries some dawnshard, or even multiple. There could be multiple instances of the main 4, or there could be a 5th one. I have less to say about this theory, as I am not well versed in the specifics of the lore surrounding dawshards.

My final idea, and the one that convinced me to make this post, is that hoid carries a shard with no intent. What I mean is that there was something, maybe a sort of sudoshard, that held the other 16 together, and gave them the sentience that was Adonalsium. When the shattering occured, this power was removed and possibly splintered. However, Hoid came into possesion of enough of this power to become a sort of vessle. Since this sudoshard didn’t have an atribute, there was no intent asociated with it. This meant that Hoid stayed unchanged, other than possibly causing his limitations, like being unable to do harm.

 

I realize that this post may be objectively wrong, but I made an attempt from the knowlege I had.

[Firesong she/her]

10 minutes ago, Honer said:

So, I believe Hoid has a shard. This theory origionally came about when I noticed that when asked, Brandon would often only say that Hoid “did not have one of the 16 shards of adonalsium”. This leads me to believe that Hoid had one of three things happen to him.

1. Hoid carries a shard of another god.
2. Hoid carries some form of a dawnshard, maybe even a 5th one.
3. Hoid carries a 17th shard, or something like it.

So, we know from RoW that anti-investiture exists. And we also know that investiture was at one point the same thing as Adonalsium, or close to it. So I belive that anti-investiture was at one point part of another god, a sort of counterpart to adonalsium, but got shatter as a byproduct of Adonalsium shattering. The shards of this being could have been picked up by other people, including Hoid.

Another option is that hoid carries some dawnshard, or even multiple. There could be multiple instances of the main 4, or there could be a 5th one. I have less to say about this theory, as I am not well versed in the specifics of the lore surrounding dawshards.

My final idea, and the one that convinced me to make this post, is that hoid carries a shard with no intent. What I mean is that there was something, maybe a sort of sudoshard, that held the other 16 together, and gave them the sentience that was Adonalsium. When the shattering occured, this power was removed and possibly splintered. However, Hoid came into possesion of enough of this power to become a sort of vessle. Since this sudoshard didn’t have an atribute, there was no intent asociated with it. This meant that Hoid stayed unchanged, other than possibly causing his limitations, like being unable to do harm.

 

I realize that this post may be objectively wrong, but I made an attempt from the knowlege I had.

There are only 4 Dawnshards, Hoid held one of the 4 but does not anymore. It is not a Shard of Adonalsium, it was just a Dawnshard. He held it before the Shattering as well. So it is as simple as that, he used to hold a Dawnshard. 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Firesong

[alder24]

6 minutes ago, Honer said:

So, I believe Hoid has a shard. This theory origionally came about when I noticed that when asked, Brandon would often only say that Hoid “did not have one of the 16 shards of adonalsium”. This leads me to believe that Hoid had one of three things happen to him.

1. Hoid carries a shard of another god.
2. Hoid carries some form of a dawnshard, maybe even a 5th one.
3. Hoid carries a 17th shard, or something like it.

Hoid doesn't carry any Shard. He isn't a Shard (as if he was he would be vaporized from PR and would transcend all 3 realms at once, Shards exist mainly in SR, he is in PR fully), and there is no 17th Shard (that's an organization, not a real Shard).

However he used to have a Dawnshard (there are only 4 Dawnshard). Being a Dawnshard changes one's soul permanently - that's why he is immortal and that's why he can't eat meat or hurt anybody. He was one of those who Shattered Adonalsium but refused to pick up a Shard.

1st OB Letter:

Quote

 You had your chance to be more, and refused it. [...] Regardless, this is not your concern. You turned your back on divinity.

 

Spoiler

Questioner (paraphrased)

Hoid was once offered a Shard, but he refused it, right?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes.

Questioner (paraphrased)

Was it right after the Shattering?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes. It was during the events. I wouldn't necessarily say "right after", it was during this process. I would say this is a RAFO before I finish writing at that time. (Not sure if I understood the last sentence right, but I think that's what he said)

Questioner (paraphrased)

And who took this Shard instead?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

RAFO.

Leipzig Book Fair (March 24, 2017)

 

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Hoid was a Dawnshard at some point in the deep past, and the reason he (even still) cannot physically harm people, or even eat meat, is related to the changes this made to his spirit. (Consider this the same fundamental principle as savanthood.) The few of you who have read Dragonsteel know that him being a Dawnshard was also the source of his immortality in that book, though the terms were different back then. (The word Dawnshard was never mentioned, for example--though the primary story of Dragonsteel (which is no longer canon) was about several people who unwittingly become Dawnshards.)

And a preemptive RAFO to all questions on this point.

Dawnshard Annotations (Nov. 6, 2020)

 

6 minutes ago, Honer said:

So, we know from RoW that anti-investiture exists. And we also know that investiture was at one point the same thing as Adonalsium, or close to it. So I belive that anti-investiture was at one point part of another god, a sort of counterpart to adonalsium, but got shatter as a byproduct of Adonalsium shattering. The shards of this being could have been picked up by other people, including Hoid.

Yyyy, no. Anti-investiture is created from investiture, it doesn't exist naturally. All investiture comes from the Spiritual Realm, if there was anti-investiture there it would annihilate itself with investiture and be gone. There were no beings made out of anti-investiture that we know of, and there was no anti-Adonalsium.

Spoiler

Eric

In Secret History we learn the 16 Shards that Shattered Adonalsium. Was that done [on behalf of the anti-Adonalsium force]?

Brandon Sanderson

You’re focusing too much on this idea of an anti-Adonalsium. It—the original question I believe that was asked me was “is there a force that is opposed to Adonalsium” and it left me a lot of wiggle room. In other words, the people who killed Adonalsium, you could say were a force, any person who opposed Adonalsium... What they were trying to get was a “devil” but to do that you must assume Adonalsium was a more Christian-style God, and I haven’t confirmed any of that.

Calamity Chicago signing (Feb. 22, 2016)

 

6 minutes ago, Honer said:

Another option is that hoid carries some dawnshard, or even multiple. There could be multiple instances of the main 4, or there could be a 5th one. I have less to say about this theory, as I am not well versed in the specifics of the lore surrounding dawshards.

Like I've said, there are only 4 Dawnshards, and Hoid used to be one, but no longer is. He gave it up.

6 minutes ago, Honer said:

My final idea, and the one that convinced me to make this post, is that hoid carries a shard with no intent.

By the very definition of a Shard, which is an aspect of Adonalsium, it has to have an intent. There is no Shard with no intent.

6 minutes ago, Honer said:

I realize that this post may be objectively wrong, but I made an attempt from the knowlege I had.

You're almost correct on one instance, so good job on that one. You're other guesses, while not correct, are definitely going into right direction as you clearly saw something odd is happening with Hoid and made educated guesses that it's going to be related to Shards - very good job  

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

3 hours ago, Honer said:

So, I believe Hoid has a shard. This theory origionally came about when I noticed that when asked, Brandon would often only say that Hoid “did not have one of the 16 shards of adonalsium”. This leads me to believe that Hoid had one of three things happen to him.

1. Hoid carries a shard of another god.
2. Hoid carries some form of a dawnshard, maybe even a 5th one.
3. Hoid carries a 17th shard, or something like it.

So, we know from RoW that anti-investiture exists. And we also know that investiture was at one point the same thing as Adonalsium, or close to it. So I belive that anti-investiture was at one point part of another god, a sort of counterpart to adonalsium, but got shatter as a byproduct of Adonalsium shattering. The shards of this being could have been picked up by other people, including Hoid.

Another option is that hoid carries some dawnshard, or even multiple. There could be multiple instances of the main 4, or there could be a 5th one. I have less to say about this theory, as I am not well versed in the specifics of the lore surrounding dawshards.

My final idea, and the one that convinced me to make this post, is that hoid carries a shard with no intent. What I mean is that there was something, maybe a sort of sudoshard, that held the other 16 together, and gave them the sentience that was Adonalsium. When the shattering occured, this power was removed and possibly splintered. However, Hoid came into possesion of enough of this power to become a sort of vessle. Since this sudoshard didn’t have an atribute, there was no intent asociated with it. This meant that Hoid stayed unchanged, other than possibly causing his limitations, like being unable to do harm.

 

I realize that this post may be objectively wrong, but I made an attempt from the knowlege I had.

Alder and Firesong already explained extremely well, so there's nothing for me to add there. I will say though, the theories were, if not well-researched, very reasonable extrapolations based on what we've seen. A Seventeenth Shard, a sort of Dawnshard equivalent that held Adonalsium together or otherwise gave him sentience, while unfounded, isn't very unreasonable, and I could see that existing as a concept in some form if Brandon had decided to take the Cosmere in a slightly different direction. You'd make a really good theorizer. I think you'd really like the Arcanum, if you don't already know about it. It's a database for all the WoBs (Words of Brandon), which are extra tidbits or information that Brandon lets us know that isn't always necessarily featured in the books. Welcome to the Shard