Yumi Virtiousity Perpendicularity

[Hatsfortrade]

Hey! 
 

so I just finished going on the forums and I haven’t seen this come up yet. Can we confirm that when Yumi was going to the pools each morning that was Virtuosity’s perpendicularity?

First I think it is highly important that she does the same ritual every day. Dip in pool of water. With meditation to keep her focused on her purpose to create art and help her people. Which with a still mind would prevent her from accessing the investure  at the shard pool.

Also very important to note when she left the first pool. Painter found it odd she was wet. When they first bathed together. This could exactly be investure based condensation like that seen on shard blades.

Second in the book Hoid clearly makes note she is a highly invested  entity. (Enough to come back as a cognitive shadow because she wanted to) but where is she getting this investiture from?

Third Small note but with all this extra investiture it probably makes her stacking rocks easier. (Like a Windrunner lashing)

Fourth how can we consider this as an ecology? Brandon loves to create and play out far out scenarios. We know the father machine was able to expand its pattern of acquiring investiture. After an error caused it to behave not as the scholars intended. Why not entrap a highly invested being that every day would refresh. 

So it created a system everyday she gets dunked and harvested for energy. Creating lies, so that she believes every day she is going to a different town. In reality if the planet was as hot as she described. A planet where people wear clogs to prevent burns. I believe normal water would be very hard if not impossible to find.

 I still think her creating art was a crucial step, as that was how she attracted spirits. But instead of giving it to the towns folk, she was actually giving it to the father machine. Like giving breaths.

please let me know what you think!

[Treamayne]

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6 hours ago, Hatsfortrade said:

Hey!

so I just finished going on the forums and I haven’t seen this come up yet. Can we confirm that when Yumi was going to the pools each morning that was Virtuosity’s perpendicularity?

Certainly plausible. We know from Elantris that a Shardpool can survive the Splintering if its shard.

Quote

First I think it is highly important that she does the same ritual every day. Dip in pool of water. With meditation to keep her focused on her purpose to create art and help her people. Which with a still mind would prevent her from accessing the investure  at the shard pool.

Also very important to note when she left the first pool. Painter found it odd she was wet. When they first bathed together. This could exactly be investure based condensation like that seen on shard blades.

Painter found it odd, but it was explained for the reader - she was wet for the same reason that she could change her clothes (or don and doff them) because she was invested enough that she was manipulating how her Cognitive Shadow looks. Just as Drifter quips at Kelsier in Secret History - that as a CS his clothes don't really exist - they are just a manifestation of how he sees himself. Well, she saw herself as being wet because she went into the pool - so when she exited the pool, voila, wet.

Shardblade condensation, on the other hand, is specifically a manifestation of the three states. If you don't know Brandon has said that one of the fundamentals of the Cosmere is that, where our world has Matter and Energy are really the same thing [e=mc^2], in the Cosmere there is a third state - Investiture. Since matter, energy and investiture are all "the same" they can each convert into another. The part that pertains is that any time Investiture condesnses into a Solid state of Matter in the physical realm, condensation will be the result (not just Shardblades - see also the chill in the air when Kaladin says his second and third oath, the glowing condensate in the shape of the windrunner glyph, to a lesser extent - the water that condenses on objects while the Mists are out on Scadrial) which is all really just how humidity and dewpoint function IRL based on the temperature that investiture solidifies into when manifesting in the Physical realm.

Also note that Painter could see the water on her, but could not feel it - because it wasn't really there. Yumi thought she should be wet, so she was wet (foreshadowing for the ending).

Quote

Second in the book Hoid clearly makes note she is a highly invested  entity. (Enough to come back as a cognitive shadow because she wanted to) but where is she getting this investiture from?

Of course she's highly invested, she is (likely) a splinter of Virtuosity. Though we also have this WoB:

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

Yumi on top, but Yumi's very close to an Elantrian. They're within the same conversation. And most of the yoki-hijo were traditionally in the past less, they've gained Investiture over time.

But this seems more a factor of what happened when the Yoki-hijo were turned into Cognitive Shadows by the Father Machine, then spent a millenia pacticing their art.

7 hours ago, Hatsfortrade said:

Third Small note but with all this extra investiture it probably makes her stacking rocks easier. (Like a Windrunner lashing)

I doubt she is using anything like a Lashing, or the rocks would topple and fall before she was finished, since she spends hours just on the stacking alone. To me, this is more an extreme extension of skill mastery. Colloquial belief is that "10,000 X to master Y" (hours of practice, repetitions of a task, etc) based on how long it takes to develope instinctual muscle memory (the IRL truth or refutation is irrelevant - just referencing a theory) - now image that Yumi has 1700 years of exceding this each year. As Brandon said, she is by-far the best at the skill of rock stacking to have ever existed in the Cosmere. . .

7 hours ago, Hatsfortrade said:

Fourth how can we consider this as an ecology? Brandon loves to create and play out far out scenarios. We know the father machine was able to expand its pattern of acquiring investiture. After an error caused it to behave not as the scholars intended. Why not entrap a highly invested being that every day would refresh. 

So it created a system everyday she gets dunked and harvested for energy. Creating lies, so that she believes every day she is going to a different town. In reality if the planet was as hot as she described. A planet where people wear clogs to prevent burns. I believe normal water would be very hard if not impossible to find.

 I still think her creating art was a crucial step, as that was how she attracted spirits. But instead of giving it to the towns folk, she was actually giving it to the father machine. Like giving breaths.

That's what it did, most of the souls trapped in the Shroud were under its control. The Yoki-hijo broke free of that control based on their nature and will so the "prisons" were set up to fool them into thinking life was normal.

Hope that helps.

[Arkangel he/him]

On 8/11/2023 at 7:04 AM, Treamayne said:

I doubt she is using anything like a Lashing, or the rocks would topple and fall before she was finished, since she spends hours just on the stacking alone. To me, this is more an extreme extension of skill mastery. Colloquial belief is that "10,000 X to master Y" (hours of practice, repetitions of a task, etc) based on how long it takes to develope instinctual muscle memory (the IRL truth or refutation is irrelevant - just referencing a theory) - now image that Yumi has 1700 years of exceding this each year. As Brandon said, she is by-far the best at the skill of rock stacking to have ever existed in the Cosmere. . .

I agree. The act of stacking is all skill. However, it is noted that, when the spirits come and are transformed, the stacks are fused together. I suspect there may be something akin to Adhesion on display here.

Edit: Turns out the fused stacks are only found in the preview chapters and were changed for the final draft, removing wording to suggest Adhesion.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Arkangel
updated information

[Treamayne]

23 hours ago, Arkangel said:

However, it is noted that, when the spirits come and are transformed, the stacks are fused together.

Where did you find that? The only reference I can find about stone being fused is when Yumi is in Painter's world, remarking about buildings:

Spoiler

Ch 15:

Quote

This place was just so strange. That sky felt like it would swallow her, but that was somehow the least of it. She’d seen enormous vehicles—carrying tons of people—moving through the nearby streets. These buildings towered around her, stacks of stones piled so straight, glued together. They could have been mountains.

For reference - Ch 4 (when we see her call spirits and ask them to become Fabrials):

Quote

Today Yumi created a spiral, using the artist’s sequence of progress as a kind of loose structure. You might know it by a different name. One, one, two, three, five, eight, thirteen, twenty-one, thirty-four. Then back down. The piles of twenty or thirty rocks should have been the most impressive—and indeed, the fact that she could stack them so well is incredible. But she found ways to make the stacks of five or three delight just as much. Incongruous mixes of tiny rocks, with enormous ones balanced on top. Shingled patterns of stones, oblong ones hanging out precariously to the sides. Stones as long as her forearm balanced on their tiniest tips.

From the mathematical descriptions, and the use of the artist’s sequence, you might have assumed the process to be methodical. Calculating. Yet it felt more a feat of organic improvisation than it did one of engineering prowess. Yumi swayed as she stacked, moving to the beats of the drums. She’d close her eyes, swimming her head from side to side as she felt the stones grind beneath her fingers. Judged their weights, the way they tipped.

Yumi didn’t want to simply accomplish the task. She didn’t want merely to perform for the whispering, excitable audience. She wanted to be worthy. She wanted to sense the spirits and know what they desired of her.

She felt they deserved so much better than her. Someone who did more than she could, even at her best. Someone who didn’t secretly yearn for freedom. Someone who didn’t—deep down—reject the incredible gift she’d been given.

Over the course of several hours, the sculpture grew into a brilliant spiral of dozens of stacks. Yumi outlasted the drumming women, who fell off after about two hours. She continued as people took children home for naps, or slipped away to eat. She went on so long that Liyun had to duck out to use the facilities, then hastily return.

Those watching could appreciate the sculpture, of course. But the best place to view it was from above. Or below. Imagine a great swirl made up of stacked stones, evoking the feeling of blowing wind, spiraling, yet made entirely from rock. Order from chaos. Beauty from raw materials. Something from nothing. The spirits noticed.

In record numbers, they noticed.

As Yumi persevered through scraped fingers and aching muscles, spirits began to float up from the stones beneath. Teardrop shaped, radiant like the sun—a swirling red and blue—and the size of a person’s head. They’d rise up and settle next to Yumi, watching her progress, transfixed. They didn’t have eyes—they were little more than blobs—but they could watch. Sense, at least.

Spirits of this sort find human creations to be fascinating. And here, because of what she’d done—because of who she was—they knew this sculpture was a gift. As the day grew dark and the plants began to drift down from the upper layers of the sky, Yumi finally started to weaken. By now her fingers were bloodied—the calluses scraped away by repetitive movement. Her arms had gone from sore to numb, to somehow both sore and numb.

It was time for the next step. She couldn’t afford a childish mistake like she’d suffered in her early years: that of working so hard that she collapsed unconscious before binding the spirits. This wasn’t simply about creating the sculpture or providing a pious display. Like a fine-print rider in a contract, there was a measure of practicality attached to this day’s art.

Too tired to stand, Yumi turned from her creation—which contained hundreds of stones. Then she blinked, counting the spirits who surrounded her in their glory—in this case they looked a bit like a series of overly large ice cream scoops that had tumbled from the cone.

Thirty-seven.

She’d summoned thirty-seven.

Most yoki-hijo were lucky to get six. Her previous record had been twenty.

Yumi wiped the sweat from her brow, then counted again through blurry eyes. She was tired. So (lowly) tired.

“Send forth,” she said, her voice croaking, “the first supplicant.”

The crowd agitated with excitement, and people went running to fetch friends or family members who had fallen off during the hours of sculpting. A strict order of needs was kept in the town, adjudicated by methods Yumi didn’t know. Supplicants were arranged, with the lucky five or six at the top all but guaranteed a slot.

Those lower down would usually have to wait for another visit to see to their needs. As spirits typically remained bound for five to ten years—with their effectiveness waning in the latter part of that—there was always a grand need for the efforts of the yoki-hijo. Today, for example, had begun with twenty-three names on the list, though they’d expected only a half dozen spirits.

As one might imagine, there was a fervor among the members of the town council to fill out the rest of the names. Yumi was unaware of this. She merely positioned herself at the front of the place of ritual, kneeling, head bowed—and trying her best not to collapse sideways to the stone.

Liyun allowed the first supplicant in, a man with a head that sat a little too far forward on his neck, like a picture that had been cut in half and then sloppily taped together. “Blessed bringer of spirits,” he said, wringing his cap in his hands, “we need light for my home. It has been six years that we have been without.”

Six years? Without a light at night? Suddenly, Yumi felt more selfish for her attempt to escape her duties earlier. “I am sorry,” she whispered back, “for failing you and your family these many years.”

“You didn’t—” The man cut himself off. It wasn’t proper to contradict a yoki-hijo. Even to compliment them.

Yumi turned to the first of the spirits, who inched up beside her, curious. “Light,” she said. “Please. In exchange for this gift of mine, will you give us light?” At the same time, she projected the proper idea. Of a flaming sun becoming a small glowing orb, capable of being carried in the palm of her hand.

“Light,” the spirit said to her. “Yes.”

The man waited anxiously as the spirit shivered, then divided in half—one side glowing brightly with a friendly orange color, the other becoming a dull blue sphere so dark it could be mistaken for black, particularly at dusk.

Yumi handed the man the two balls, each fitting in the palm of one hand. He bowed and retreated.

It does reference binding spirits, but not the stones (as far as I can find).

 

Edited August 17, 2023 by Treamayne
Color Test

[alder24]

9 hours ago, Arkangel said:

I agree. The act of stacking is all skill. However, it is noted that, when the spirits come and are transformed, the stacks are fused together. I suspect there may be something akin to Adhesion on display here.

7 hours ago, Treamayne said:

Where did you find that? The only reference I can find about stone being fused is when Yumi is in Painter's world, remarking about buildings:

I was thinking that too, but now looking for a quote I think I've misunderstood this part, ch 4:

Quote

Her sculpture would be allowed to fade with time as all art does, and eventually would be taken down before the next visit of a yoki-hijo to this town. The power of the devices created in the ritual would eventually weaken, each spirit’s bond remaining in effect for a different length of time. But in general, the more spirits you bound in a session, the longer all of them would last. What she had done today was unprecedented.

 

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

I was thinking that too, but now looking for a quote I think I've misunderstood this part, ch 4:

Quote

Her sculpture would be allowed to fade with time as all art does, and eventually would be taken down before the next visit of a yoki-hijo to this town. The power of the devices created in the ritual would eventually weaken, each spirit’s bond remaining in effect for a different length of time. But in general, the more spirits you bound in a session, the longer all of them would last. What she had done today was unprecedented.

 

Yeah, I took that to mean that nobody purposely removed the rocks (allowing nature to decide their fate), but it still does not imply the rock stacks became solid - only that the Fabrials the spirits have become last longer the more spirits that were bound in a single session. 

[drunkenbotanist]

In the preview chapters, the rocks get stuck there and then slowly fall down as the binding wears off over years.

 

"Each bound spirit had reinforced her sculpture, the stones of which would now resist tipping as if they’d been glued in place. As the bond weakened, and the stones eventually started to drop over the years, the powers of the spirits would respond in kind. But in general, the more spirits you bound in a session, the longer all of them would last. What she’d done that day was unprecedented."

 

But this was removed from the final version. I've not seen anyone speculate about why, but surely it's a mechanics/continuity thing right? Because it was a nice detail.

[Arkangel he/him]

16 hours ago, drunkenbotanist said:

In the preview chapters, the rocks get stuck there and then slowly fall down as the binding wears off over years.

 

"Each bound spirit had reinforced her sculpture, the stones of which would now resist tipping as if they’d been glued in place. As the bond weakened, and the stones eventually started to drop over the years, the powers of the spirits would respond in kind. But in general, the more spirits you bound in a session, the longer all of them would last. What she’d done that day was unprecedented."

 

But this was removed from the final version. I've not seen anyone speculate about why, but surely it's a mechanics/continuity thing right? Because it was a nice detail.

This must be what I was conflating it with. Thank you for digging that up and sorry for the confusion, everyone! I guess I skimmed the first handful of chapters thinking that, since I had read the preview chapters I was good. Clearly there is a difference.

The rocks sticking together really stuck with me (pun intended). It is a bit odd that Brandon changed it in the final draft. My only speculation is that Adhesion is Honor's thing (Honor's Truest Surge and all that) and Brandon didn't want the hassle of explaining why it was also in Virtuosity's kit.

[drunkenbotanist]

I wonder if it was written before the father machine rock stacking bit had had some revising done? Or maybe the realization that because the rock stacking was all more or less an illusion, having a bunch of mechanics for it didn't make too much sense?

[Arkangel he/him]

7 hours ago, drunkenbotanist said:

I wonder if it was written before the father machine rock stacking bit had had some revising done? Or maybe the realization that because the rock stacking was all more or less an illusion, having a bunch of mechanics for it didn't make too much sense?

Yes to your first point, no to your second. The Machine had to knock over the stacks to keep going so that makes sense. Yumi's rocks, in her yoki-hijo "nature preserve" were real - made up of rubble, mostly. Hoid said that her epic stacking pulled a real spirit from the Machine and I doubt Shroud-rocks would do that.

[Xiahida]

I just wonder that since most of what happened in Yumi's world was a prison made by the Machine I question how much of spirits manifesting is cannon. It could be how it used to work before the Machine. Can someone clear this up for me?

[alder24]

2 hours ago, Xiahida said:

I just wonder that since most of what happened in Yumi's world was a prison made by the Machine I question how much of spirits manifesting is cannon. It could be how it used to work before the Machine. Can someone clear this up for me?

Every Spirit and device you saw before Yumi went to confront the Father Machine was fake. The only real Spirit was the one who spoke to her at the end of chapter 6, she attracted it with her incredible art that day. Possibly the one in chapter 31, who told Yumi and Nikaro to destroy the machine, was also real. Yumi ch 39:

Quote

So, to control them, it created prisons in the form of fake towns. Servants, compelled by the machine, emerged from the shroud. Buildings, plants, and vehicles were recreated from the substance of souls, and a careful perimeter was erected. The walls Masaka found? Those projected (by making images out of the shroud) a perfectly realistic, yet fake landscape.
These places were fourteen nature preserves, you might say, each designed for a single occupant. The yoki-hijo were placed into these prisons, with their memories erased each night. Then they were given a single day to live over and over, calling fake spirits formed from the shroud.
[...]
So it was that on the day our story began, something remarkable occurred. Seventeen hundred years of repeating the same day, and something finally snapped. Because Yumi, her skill reaching a crescendo, stacked so well that she pulled a single spirit away from the machine.
This changed everything.
That spirit, grateful for a moment of freedom, yet knowing it would soon be captured again, contacted her