Tamriel Wolfsbaine Posted July 31, 2023 Posted July 31, 2023 Diablo angels. Wings of energy that seem to double as pretty sweet weapons. I have been down the road of imagining ways to make doc ock or build an iron spider suit from awakening. But I got to scrolling and chanced upon some diablo videos with the angels. I have never played the game put it appears that the angels wings double as weapons that can grab or cut (maybe in the diablo 4 cinematic). Again, my mind turned immediately to "how in the world could you build it in the cosmere?" And, anyone who has seen my ravings before knows, it only lead me to more questions. My initial thought is to stick with the awakening. Thinner (maybe 1/4 inch or lower) steel cable... only this time you have many more rolls on you that are awakened (5-10 strands on each side ranging from a few feet to 3x your height or so). I am curious if you think awakening something without an edge could ever be used for cutting as a shardblade via awakening? Like an awakened piano wire or something? (Include a couple mixed with the steel cables?) I assume when you awaken something you are awakening it as a whole. You awaken the entire straw man. So I figure in the case of a harness with many limbs it would work the same (make it look as human as possible to lower breath count? Although nightblood shows us it isn't a necessity.) But that is only a small portion of the equation. In diablo Angel wings they appear to be ribbons of light. Lightweaving might be able to fix this but it leads me to another question. For aethers. I know one of them is light and heat. We see limitations based on water. When that is removed by having a boatload of pure investiture, do you think that we are likely to see any lasers coming from Aetherbound? We know lightweavers will be able to eventually. What about the right Aetherbound? It is believed by some that division can break up any nonshard material before it ever touches them making a sort of heat barrier around them... what are the odds that some Sunlight Aetherbound with access to that aether could replicate that? Do you think you could grow aether up an awakened object? Even if the awakened cable could cut could you bathe yourself and it in a layer of sunlight?
Quantus he/him Posted July 31, 2023 Posted July 31, 2023 Awakening is definitely the way to go for complex articulated appendages. Anything metal/mineral has the obvious problem so maybe use a high-strength organic polymer (spidersilk, Maybe kevlar, etc.) and organic carbon fiber equivalents. For Diablo wings traditional awakening, cannot be used to emit energy like heat or light, per WOB. I havent read Tress, but I dont know if Spoiler this has been contraindicated with that one awakened thing Ive heard. So they arent going to glow, but they can be prehensile since Vasher does that with cloth a lot. 35 minutes ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: I am curious if you think awakening something without an edge could ever be used for cutting as a shardblade via awakening? Like an awakened piano wire or something? (Include a couple mixed with the steel cables?) I think so, I recall making that argument once for the possible forms of Shardblades, which I assume would translate to Nightblood siblings. We've know spren can make non-lethal forms if they dont want to Cut. I think they could Cut with anything they and/or their Radiant considers and visualizes as a Cutting Tool. Swords and soldier tools are most common, obviously, but a lot of Radiants traditionally had roles off the battlefield, including craftspeople. So I think of a Garrote: in the hands of a typical assassin it could strangle but not Cut, but in the hands a potter or other clayworker, who regularly uses a string as a tool to separate material, I think it could Cut a person as easily as clay.
alder24 Posted July 31, 2023 Posted July 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: Diablo angels. Wings of energy that seem to double as pretty sweet weapons. I have been down the road of imagining ways to make doc ock or build an iron spider suit from awakening. But I got to scrolling and chanced upon some diablo videos with the angels. I have never played the game put it appears that the angels wings double as weapons that can grab or cut (maybe in the diablo 4 cinematic). Again, my mind turned immediately to "how in the world could you build it in the cosmere?" And, anyone who has seen my ravings before knows, it only lead me to more questions. My initial thought is to stick with the awakening. Thinner (maybe 1/4 inch or lower) steel cable... only this time you have many more rolls on you that are awakened (5-10 strands on each side ranging from a few feet to 3x your height or so). Did you say Awakening and wings? Yes, here you go, you can make a fully functional wings with Awakening, I've described it here: Weaponizing it would be a problem. Adding any metal to the structure would increase its weight too much, wings would have to be bigger, which means more weight, more metal as weapons, bigger wings etc. Not possible, especially if you want to make entire wings out of metal. You need to make as light as possible for them to be able to carry you up. They're already gigantic without any metallic addition. And the wings themself are delicate, as they're made out of fabric, so you want to avoid any contact with enemy and sharp tools as much as possible, as even a single tear can cause the entire wings to fail. A spear is all you can take. It would be best to use Awakened wings with Malwish iron medallion, for weight reduction. That way you can seriously change their shape and wingspan. 1 hour ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: I am curious if you think awakening something without an edge could ever be used for cutting as a shardblade via awakening? Like an awakened piano wire or something? (Include a couple mixed with the steel cables?) No. I believe sapience is needed. Plus a shape is very important for Awakening type 4 entities. You wouldn't have Nightblood if you Awaken a shield. So using something that isn't a weapon might not create what you want. Spoiler Questioner If Vasher and Shashara had Awakened a non-weapon in exactly the same way as Nightblood (say a shield), would the object exhibit the same properties as Nightblood? Brandon Sanderson So, if you said "destroy evil" to a shield... no, it wouldn't be exactly the same. The Command is the most important part of all of this, but the shape, how the weapon perceives itself, how you perceive it, is all gonna play into this. They're playing with some real dangerous stuff when they made Nightblood. And it didn't go as intended. San Diego Comic-Con@Home 2020 (July 23, 2020) 1 hour ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: I assume when you awaken something you are awakening it as a whole. You awaken the entire straw man. So I figure in the case of a harness with many limbs it would work the same (make it look as human as possible to lower breath count? Although nightblood shows us it isn't a necessity.) I think that depends on your perception. Vasher Awakened the entire clothing of a man, without a body itself (they were mercenaries) - those clothing would very likely have metal parts in them, belts, buttons etc. It wasn't hard for him. I think if you perceive something correctly you can Awaken a piece of fabric with a metal piece sewn into it, without Awakening metal itself. 1 hour ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: But that is only a small portion of the equation. In diablo Angel wings they appear to be ribbons of light. Lightweaving might be able to fix this but it leads me to another question. I think it might be possible to create workable wings using Lightweaving. Shallan was likely adding mass to her Lightweaving during the OB battle. You need to do that enough to interact with air and you have wings. Hard to do but theoretically possible. 2 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: For aethers. I know one of them is light and heat. We see limitations based on water. When that is removed by having a boatload of pure investiture, do you think that we are likely to see any lasers coming from Aetherbound? We know lightweavers will be able to eventually. What about the right Aetherbound? We don't have any "laser" or "light" Aether for now (there is sunlight but how does it work is hard to say). That's just impossible right now. No currently available Aether could make a working pair of angelic wings. 2 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: Do you think you could grow aether up an awakened object? Yes but Awakening object would likely not work anymore in a way you want it.
Tamriel Wolfsbaine Posted July 31, 2023 Author Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, alder24 said: Did you say Awakening and wings? Yes, here you go, you can make a fully functional wings with Awakening, I've described it here: Weaponizing it would be a problem. Adding any metal to the structure would increase its weight too much, wings would have to be bigger, which means more weight, more metal as weapons, bigger wings etc. Not possible, especially if you want to make entire wings out of metal. You need to make as light as possible for them to be able to carry you up. They're already gigantic without any metallic addition. And the wings themself are delicate, as they're made out of fabric, so you want to avoid any contact with enemy and sharp tools as much as possible, as even a single tear can cause the entire wings to fail. A spear is all you can take. It would be best to use Awakened wings with Malwish iron medallion, for weight reduction. That way you can seriously change their shape and wingspan. No. I believe sapience is needed. Plus a shape is very important for Awakening type 4 entities. You wouldn't have Nightblood if you Awaken a shield. So using something that isn't a weapon might not create what you want. Reveal hidden contents Questioner If Vasher and Shashara had Awakened a non-weapon in exactly the same way as Nightblood (say a shield), would the object exhibit the same properties as Nightblood? Brandon Sanderson So, if you said "destroy evil" to a shield... no, it wouldn't be exactly the same. The Command is the most important part of all of this, but the shape, how the weapon perceives itself, how you perceive it, is all gonna play into this. They're playing with some real dangerous stuff when they made Nightblood. And it didn't go as intended. San Diego Comic-Con@Home 2020 (July 23, 2020) I think that depends on your perception. Vasher Awakened the entire clothing of a man, without a body itself (they were mercenaries) - those clothing would very likely have metal parts in them, belts, buttons etc. It wasn't hard for him. I think if you perceive something correctly you can Awaken a piece of fabric with a metal piece sewn into it, without Awakening metal itself. I think it might be possible to create workable wings using Lightweaving. Shallan was likely adding mass to her Lightweaving during the OB battle. You need to do that enough to interact with air and you have wings. Hard to do but theoretically possible. We don't have any "laser" or "light" Aether for now (there is sunlight but how does it work is hard to say). That's just impossible right now. No currently available Aether could make a working pair of angelic wings. Yes but Awakening object would likely not work anymore in a way you want it. I had pictured Roseite grown around a rope leaving some form of joints in between and then growing into a dagger at the end for an iron spider sort of limb. I don't know exactly how the rosite could do that (perhaps very thin section that spirals around the rope to allow some movement. I don't know if the rope would adjust well to being limited from a giant range of motion to only bending at a few set joints. I still think it would have a lot larger range of motion than a normal human arm a joint at the back and 2-3 more down the length of the rope ending with a nice pointy chunk of roseite. You could make the roseite between joints quite thick to absorb blows and protect your rope. Back to the angel. Yeah I thought flight might be a difficult thing. I was actually assuming you would have to mix and match some systems to get that but I like the awakened flight idea! Thin steel cable, while requiring the 9th heightening, would just do so well in this due to its flexibility and its strength.... I still don't fully understand how the Awakening works with certain things. It being a softer system than others is so beneficial in letting my mind wander while at the same time driving me nuts in what it could or couldn't do. We see cloth tossing people around but could an awakened object pummel a person? The Garrote idea by @Quantus is really what I was thinking of when I pictured it. Steel wire can absolute cut (and the steel cable ends are ridiculously sharp at times). Though if it could cut along its edge would be the stretch. I wonder about how well steel wire would do at pushing and dealing blunt force damage as well. Would it just sting like being whipped or could awakening help it to shove things out of the way as it hits them (if not cutting them). I know it could wrap someone up and grab them and most likely even toss them. I think if you tried constricting a person to death with thinner wire it would naturally slice into their flesh as well (same could be said for any cordage really). If an inch + thick wire or rope were swung at higher speeds (like the whipping motion of Inarius' wings in this clip. https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxejkOSUATwJRcWqUkFoFiTyshmNI8nos6) I imagine it would be far more effective at moving enemies away than far thinner wire or rope. But does Awakening follow all of those rules of physics? In this case for the weapons application would metal wire awakened at thinner diameters be a better or would the thicker ropes? For transporting your winged suit I would say the thinner wires win out by a long shot compared to a bunch of thick ropes but generating force I feel like the thicker heavier ropes at high speed have to be better if no magical cutting is allowed. You could potentially focus on only some of them being thin enough to cut and the others wrapping around the cutting wires to protect you when you don't want to wreck hordes of enemies. Flying is all bonus. I am really just curious about the weapons program (Spiderman initiating instant kill mode on the iron spider). Thin enough wire probably wouldn't add too much weight. It is strong strong strong. You get far more bang for your buck at lower weights of steel cable in terms of working loads than you do from rope. Would a 1/4 steel cable with a 1100lb working load be able to hold you up the same way 1inch thick rope would with a similar working load if you wanted to turn it into legs and run with it. Bonus question: Could you create an army of lifeless spiders to create a silk farm and have the best of both worlds? Creating insanely strong cordage all the time? Could lifeless spiders understand a command to layer their silk back and forth on itself making cordage? Could a spren blade manifest itself as cutting flexible wings of death? In which case skybreaker or windrunner just with the "how to become an angel" battle. Edited July 31, 2023 by Tamriel Wolfsbaine
alder24 Posted August 1, 2023 Posted August 1, 2023 12 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: We see cloth tossing people around but could an awakened object pummel a person? You can hang on your shirt or trousers that's why they can toss somebody around, but pummeling might be weaker, as clothes do not have a lot of mass and are squishy. 12 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: I wonder about how well steel wire would do at pushing and dealing blunt force damage as well. Would it just sting like being whipped or could awakening help it to shove things out of the way as it hits them (if not cutting them). I know it could wrap someone up and grab them and most likely even toss them. I think if you tried constricting a person to death with thinner wire it would naturally slice into their flesh as well (same could be said for any cordage really). Depending on the thickness of the wire. Thinner would cut, thick would toss aside. 12 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: f an inch + thick wire or rope were swung at higher speeds (like the whipping motion of Inarius' wings in this clip. https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxejkOSUATwJRcWqUkFoFiTyshmNI8nos6) I imagine it would be far more effective at moving enemies away than far thinner wire or rope. Depending on speed. Even a thick metal wire can rip flesh out if it's fast enough. Thick and fast ropes, wires or chains are deadly and brutal. 12 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: But does Awakening follow all of those rules of physics? Yes. 12 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: Would a 1/4 steel cable with a 1100lb working load be able to hold you up the same way 1inch thick rope would with a similar working load if you wanted to turn it into legs and run with it. I guess so. 12 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: Could you create an army of lifeless spiders to create a silk farm and have the best of both worlds? Creating insanely strong cordage all the time? Could lifeless spiders understand a command to layer their silk back and forth on itself making cordage? No. They're dead. Lifeless don't produce blood, urine or any other body fluids or solids. They're dead. Spiders won't produce any silk. 12 hours ago, Tamriel Wolfsbaine said: Could a spren blade manifest itself as cutting flexible wings of death? In which case skybreaker or windrunner just with the "how to become an angel" battle. Flexible no. Even in their size they might not be able to be big enough to lift a person up - it's still metal, heavier than fabric, you would need bigger wings for that (and Rosharan are bigger and heavier than Earth humans, but lower gravity compensate for that).
Tamriel Wolfsbaine Posted August 1, 2023 Author Posted August 1, 2023 7 hours ago, alder24 said: You can hang on your shirt or trousers that's why they can toss somebody around, but pummeling might be weaker, as clothes do not have a lot of mass and are squishy. Depending on the thickness of the wire. Thinner would cut, thick would toss aside. Depending on speed. Even a thick metal wire can rip flesh out if it's fast enough. Thick and fast ropes, wires or chains are deadly and brutal. Yes. I guess so. No. They're dead. Lifeless don't produce blood, urine or any other body fluids or solids. They're dead. Spiders won't produce any silk. Flexible no. Even in their size they might not be able to be big enough to lift a person up - it's still metal, heavier than fabric, you would need bigger wings for that (and Rosharan are bigger and heavier than Earth humans, but lower gravity compensate for that). In terms of people mixing systems. Certainly an iron medallion in future cosmere could make flight even with heavy rope weapons far easier than an awakener alone. I don't think that weight manipulation will be too far outside of the possible for people with breaths... or vice versa for people with access to weight manipulation getting access to the breaths needed to make a weapons system / flying system such as this. It is a good mention that any of these moving fast enough could deal some serious damage. I was even thinking of potential for the cords to be weighted at the end if not being given a cutting edge necessarily. You get a meteor hammer sort of action going at the end of some coil / cordage could still end up with a wicked dangerous weapons system rope or steel both. Jackie chan horseshoe rope dart from Shanghai Noon coming to mind big time. Only one a much larger level with multiple ropes working at the same time. I assume the awakened objects could be made to move really fast. I really like the mention of a control system in your awakened wings thread. Though it makes me wonder. Does the level of awakened entity make a difference in that? We really only see Nightblood acting in the capacity to destroy. Could a more intricate command given to a type 4 entity along the same lines of "be as my hands" potentially open your wing/ weapons system up to telepathic communication and eliminate the need for a separate control system?
Recommended Posts