Time Skip Thoughts

[Hare_Mettle he/him]

I'm of the opinion that Stormlight's time skip (I've heard rumors of 10-15 years, still not sure if the exact amount has been pinned down) serves two functions in terms of literary composition: Character development and plot development. 

The first is pretty obvious, even if I don't look forward to this. As I've re-read the series three times now, I've come to enjoy RoW slightly more than OB. The sole exception being the ~year long time skip. I understand it was needed to tell the story BS wanted to with Bridge 4, Windrunner squires, etc. But it just wasn't for me and I often wonder if the symmetry of 10 books to the world's significance with 10 strong-armed BS into leaving out some stuff or skipping time as he did so he would hit the 5 and 5 = 10 mark. Doesn't matter, it's just an artistic choice I wasn't a fan of. 

The second function of the time skip is much more interesting to me. 

Roshar has been around for millennia. Wars were fought that lasted centuries. Time means nothing for Spren or Shard Vessels. This is a series about long, cultural and 'scientific' evolutions that culminated in the True Desolation...then something will happen in KoWT. 

Whatever this plot point/event is will have sort of conclusion, but then will continue with the later half. 

So here's my question: What sort of event or resolution could be entertaining enough, satisfying enough, logical enough and meaningful enough to END one story, then have NEW problems or events come about in Books 6-10? 

To me, there are only so many avenues/options where any sort of time skip is feasible...let alone one that can be upended only 10-15 years later. 

The most obvious is a new oath pact formed, some of our old heralds (or not) and some new characters are sent to Braize and after 10-15 years one of them breaks. (If it goes this way, my prediction is Adolin is made a herald who chooses to wield Maya instead of an Honorblade, thus being the first Herald without powers - something the originals HAD but didn't NEED as their original purpose was to guide humans and help them, something Adolin is damn good at.)

After this idea though, I'm lost. Which means this won't happen because it's too obvious. But WHAT could be conclusive enough to end Part 1, but then cause problems enough to continue a series Part 2, 15 years later?

If Odium wins, I imagine he'd be ITCHING to get after it and cause some Cosmere chaos. I don't see how anything could happen in a Universe extending War within that time period that would cause a new storyline on ROSHAR to begin. Other planets fighting Odium and FuseDalinar might have problems, but I can't Roshar. They were beat, subdued, conquered and are Odium's grasp now. 

If Dalinar wins, Odium is trapped. 

So I guess this all comes back to Todium seeing a mistake in Hoid's contract and exposing it. (damn) I just went in a circle and ended up at the obvious answer being one we know, but don;'t understand yet (the Sanderson Special his empire has been built on). 

Well anyway, I'm still going to post this and see if anyone can use these parameters to maybe get MORE specific with theories about WHY the time jump exists in terms of its function and how that will be explained? 

 

Rock on, Gons. 

[Firesong she/her]

7 minutes ago, Hare_Mettle said:

I'm of the opinion that Stormlight's time skip (I've heard rumors of 10-15 years, still not sure if the exact amount has been pinned down) serves two functions in terms of literary composition: Character development and plot development. 

The first is pretty obvious, even if I don't look forward to this. As I've re-read the series three times now, I've come to enjoy RoW slightly more than OB. The sole exception being the ~year long time skip. I understand it was needed to tell the story BS wanted to with Bridge 4, Windrunner squires, etc. But it just wasn't for me and I often wonder if the symmetry of 10 books to the world's significance with 10 strong-armed BS into leaving out some stuff or skipping time as he did so he would hit the 5 and 5 = 10 mark. Doesn't matter, it's just an artistic choice I wasn't a fan of. 

The second function of the time skip is much more interesting to me. 

Roshar has been around for millennia. Wars were fought that lasted centuries. Time means nothing for Spren or Shard Vessels. This is a series about long, cultural and 'scientific' evolutions that culminated in the True Desolation...then something will happen in KoWT. 

Whatever this plot point/event is will have sort of conclusion, but then will continue with the later half. 

So here's my question: What sort of event or resolution could be entertaining enough, satisfying enough, logical enough and meaningful enough to END one story, then have NEW problems or events come about in Books 6-10? 

To me, there are only so many avenues/options where any sort of time skip is feasible...let alone one that can be upended only 10-15 years later. 

The most obvious is a new oath pact formed, some of our old heralds (or not) and some new characters are sent to Braize and after 10-15 years one of them breaks. (If it goes this way, my prediction is Adolin is made a herald who chooses to wield Maya instead of an Honorblade, thus being the first Herald without powers - something the originals HAD but didn't NEED as their original purpose was to guide humans and help them, something Adolin is damn good at.)

After this idea though, I'm lost. Which means this won't happen because it's too obvious. But WHAT could be conclusive enough to end Part 1, but then cause problems enough to continue a series Part 2, 15 years later?

If Odium wins, I imagine he'd be ITCHING to get after it and cause some Cosmere chaos. I don't see how anything could happen in a Universe extending War within that time period that would cause a new storyline on ROSHAR to begin. Other planets fighting Odium and FuseDalinar might have problems, but I can't Roshar. They were beat, subdued, conquered and are Odium's grasp now. 

If Dalinar wins, Odium is trapped. 

So I guess this all comes back to Todium seeing a mistake in Hoid's contract and exposing it. (damn) I just went in a circle and ended up at the obvious answer being one we know, but don;'t understand yet (the Sanderson Special his empire has been built on). 

Well anyway, I'm still going to post this and see if anyone can use these parameters to maybe get MORE specific with theories about WHY the time jump exists in terms of its function and how that will be explained? 

 

Rock on, Gons. 

My theory that I am pretty set on, based on Death Rattles, implications in other places, and in WoBs. Is that Dalinar will lose, and Odium will consume the remains of Honor, become a Hybrid Shard, and do stuff. 

We see in Rhythm of War the idea of Humans and Singers coming together, and also have a character that is a Regal and Surgebinder (Venli), we have Renarin and Rlain loving each other (and they also both have Corrupted Spren, which themselves are a combination of Honor and Cultivation, and Odium, furthering the idea of the coming together of Odium and Honor) and have the idea of the Rhythm of War and Warlight, both fused together from Honor and Odium. They also use the fact they could come together to mean that humans and singers can work together and the war could end, and it is suspicious that the evidence they use is the fact that the Investitures can intermix into something new.

The Rhythm of War is also going to be important in Book 5, they talk about its symbolic meaning extensively, and also say things such as this 

Quote

This point regarding the Rhythm of War’s emotional influence will be of particular interest to El. 

 El is going to be rather important in Book 5, without a shadow of a doubt, his musings, combined with this, also paint a picture

Quote

"Roshar will be united in its service of the greater war." "And march proudly at the head of a human legion." "They should not be discarded, but helped to their potential. Their final Passions." "Yes I look forward to ruling the humans." "Nearly as much as I look forward to serving you, newest Odium. Who was so recently one of them. You understand. And you are the one I've been waiting to worship."

He is interested in the Rhythm of War, and in a greater war throughout the cosmere, and was unsatisfied with Rayse (who actively didn't want to be corrupted by other Shards). He also speaks of leading humans under the newest Odium, which both means that Odium would be victorious, and that he would be more warlike. It seems that he actively wishes for the combination of Honor and Odium. 

Raboniel talks a lot about ending the cycle, and this is connected to the ideas of the Rhythm of War and the associated Investiture

Quote

 

We will end this war, Pursuer. Forever. We have spent far, far too long in an endless cycle. I will break it - and once I am finished in this tower, there will be no turning back, ever.

Raboniel does not think like other Fused, Venli. She hears a much grander song. A skewed and twisted one, but one she seeks to sing without traditional regard for Odium's plans.

We had it emphasized a lot that Rayse didn't want to be corrupted by other Shards, and now Rayse no longer holds Odium. Taravangian would be more willing to allow it to happen if he feels it is for the best. 

On a WoB

Quote

CaptainObvious0927

The really question is, given the death of Rayse, is Honor really dead? Or is his essence out there, still available to be claimed?

Brandon Sanderson

I will answer this for certain by the end of Book Five. For now, RAFO.

This shows that Honor as a Shard will be relevant by the end of Book Five. 

Cultivation said that Taravangian would "control Odium with honor" or something along those lines, after he Ascended. Which, while they didn't capitalize honor, I feel it is still a very noteworthy way to word it. 

Taravangian is a strong believer in law and order, something that Honor is associated with.

Quote

 

"Someone must bear the responsibility, someone must be dragged down by it, ruined by it. Someone must stain their souls so others may live. Society offers us up to trudge through dirty waters so others may be clean." - Oathbringer, Chapter 86

"Our law will claim innocent men-for all judges are flawed, as is our knowledge. Eventually, you will execute someone who does not deserve it. This is the burden society must carry in exchange for order. " - Oathbringer, Chapter 28

"To prevent murder to happen again … I must hang them all and weep." - Oathbringer, Chapter 28

This shows that he has a Connection with the ideas of Honor and leadership. He also has a connection to Odium in the very strong Emotions enforced upon him by Cultivation. Thus, he reflects both of them in a very notable manner. 

Evidence they are gonna lose against Odium is extensive, but most densely focused in the Death Rattles. 

Quote

A man stood on a cliffside and watched his homeland fall into dust. The waters surged beneath, so far beneath. And he heard a child crying. They were his own tears.

Victory! We stand atop the mount! We scatter them before us! Their homes become our dens, their lands are now our farms! And they shall burn, as we once did, in a place that is hollow and forlorn

Light grows so distant. The storm never stops. I am broken, and all around me have died. I weep for the end of all things. He has won. Oh, he has beaten us. 

And all the world was shattered! The rocks trembled with their steps, and the stones reached toward the heavens. We die! We die! 

The death is my life, the strength becomes my weakness, the journey has ended. (Which is an Inversion of the Oath of Knights Radiants, which could be hinting at something going wrong with Honor)

Three of sixteen ruled, but now the Broken One reigns. 

The darkness becomes a palace. Let it rule! Let it rule! 

So the night will reign, for the choice of honor is life...

The very fact that there are five more books after SA5, which still relate to the Oathpact and the Heralds, implies that Odium would not be completely defeated. 

Evidence outside of this can be seen in The Lost Metal (Spoilers for The Lost Metal)

Spoiler

We see Chouta, and have people mentioned as appearing that sound like Iriali and Horneaters (it isn't confirmed, but they sound like them from the descriptions), which implies some sort of max exodus. The Ghostbloods also talk about Roshar being too dangerous to trade with, even though it is after the Contest of Champions. They don't say why at all, but all of this seems to imply that Roshar is not in a good state even after the Contest.

In summary, I believe that Odium would combine with Honor to become War, the Broken One (which seems to be placed as something separate from the Three Shards, as if it were some new Shard), and Dalinar would lose the contest of Champions. 

But something else that is notable... Dalinar also has a strong connection to both. He is a very emotional man, and for much of his life he was deeply influenced by Nergaoul, an Unmade. He also has a strong Connection to Honor in his strong moral compass, his experience with leadership, and his Bond with the Stormfather, the Cognitive Shadow of Tanavast (or rather, a Spren that fused with said Shadow), and a being that is extremely Invested with Honor's Investiture. He was originally meant to be Odium's Champion, due to his Connection to Odium. A lot of these Death Rattles seem to be from the perspective of Dalinar as he loses, and they exhibit a very strong emotional response. So it is actually possible that Dalinar himself becomes War. 

But I feel that Taravangian is a far more likely outcome. 

[alder24]

5 hours ago, Hare_Mettle said:

I'm of the opinion that Stormlight's time skip (I've heard rumors of 10-15 years, still not sure if the exact amount has been pinned down) serves two functions in terms of literary composition: Character development and plot development. 

The first is pretty obvious, even if I don't look forward to this. As I've re-read the series three times now, I've come to enjoy RoW slightly more than OB. The sole exception being the ~year long time skip. I understand it was needed to tell the story BS wanted to with Bridge 4, Windrunner squires, etc. But it just wasn't for me and I often wonder if the symmetry of 10 books to the world's significance with 10 strong-armed BS into leaving out some stuff or skipping time as he did so he would hit the 5 and 5 = 10 mark. Doesn't matter, it's just an artistic choice I wasn't a fan of. 

The second function of the time skip is much more interesting to me. 

Roshar has been around for millennia. Wars were fought that lasted centuries. Time means nothing for Spren or Shard Vessels. This is a series about long, cultural and 'scientific' evolutions that culminated in the True Desolation...then something will happen in KoWT. 

Whatever this plot point/event is will have sort of conclusion, but then will continue with the later half. 

So here's my question: What sort of event or resolution could be entertaining enough, satisfying enough, logical enough and meaningful enough to END one story, then have NEW problems or events come about in Books 6-10? 

To me, there are only so many avenues/options where any sort of time skip is feasible...let alone one that can be upended only 10-15 years later. 

The most obvious is a new oath pact formed, some of our old heralds (or not) and some new characters are sent to Braize and after 10-15 years one of them breaks. (If it goes this way, my prediction is Adolin is made a herald who chooses to wield Maya instead of an Honorblade, thus being the first Herald without powers - something the originals HAD but didn't NEED as their original purpose was to guide humans and help them, something Adolin is damn good at.)

After this idea though, I'm lost. Which means this won't happen because it's too obvious. But WHAT could be conclusive enough to end Part 1, but then cause problems enough to continue a series Part 2, 15 years later?

If Odium wins, I imagine he'd be ITCHING to get after it and cause some Cosmere chaos. I don't see how anything could happen in a Universe extending War within that time period that would cause a new storyline on ROSHAR to begin. Other planets fighting Odium and FuseDalinar might have problems, but I can't Roshar. They were beat, subdued, conquered and are Odium's grasp now. 

If Dalinar wins, Odium is trapped. 

So I guess this all comes back to Todium seeing a mistake in Hoid's contract and exposing it. (damn) I just went in a circle and ended up at the obvious answer being one we know, but don;'t understand yet (the Sanderson Special his empire has been built on). 

Well anyway, I'm still going to post this and see if anyone can use these parameters to maybe get MORE specific with theories about WHY the time jump exists in terms of its function and how that will be explained? 

 

Rock on, Gons. 

I believe Dalinar will lose, he will become Odium's Fused and this will kill Stormfather making him into a deadeye. This will happen in the first half of the KoWT, the second half will be focused on fixing this problem. Stormfather's death would be very disastrous, not only would it mean no more Stormlight, but no more storms at all, it will only rain as like in endless Weeping. This will flood parts of Roshar, causing destruction of Kharbranth which would mean Odium broke his oath with Taravangian wounding him and forcing him to withdraw. People will bring back Stormfather by either releasing BAM or by somebody Ascending to Honor. That's how KoWT will end. 

And SA 6 will start with another event that will kick start war again. Whatever it might be. Odium will definitely return with some new allies. Hard to say. But new characters will be a new primary POV of the second half of SA, not Kaladin or Shallan or Dalinar, their arcs will end in SA 5. 

[Firesong she/her]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

I believe Dalinar will lose, he will become Odium's Fused and this will kill Stormfather making him into a deadeye. This will happen in the first half of the KoWT, the second half will be focused on fixing this problem. Stormfather's death would be very disastrous, not only would it mean no more Stormlight, but no more storms at all, it will only rain as like in endless Weeping. This will flood parts of Roshar, causing destruction of Kharbranth which would mean Odium broke his oath with Taravangian wounding him and forcing him to withdraw. People will bring back Stormfather by either releasing BAM or by somebody Ascending to Honor. That's how KoWT will end. 

And SA 6 will start with another event that will kick start war again. Whatever it might be. Odium will definitely return with some new allies. Hard to say. But new characters will be a new primary POV of the second half of SA, not Kaladin or Shallan or Dalinar, their arcs will end in SA 5. 

Technically speaking, that last part is wrong. He never said PoV character, he said flashback characters. The Flashback character, as shown by SA4, can be dead by the time the book comes along. So we can't be 100% sure that everyone listed is going to survive until then. It is likely, but we have to be careful about saying they will with certainty. 

[alder24]

46 minutes ago, Firesong said:

Technically speaking, that last part is wrong. He never said PoV character, he said flashback characters. The Flashback character, as shown by SA4, can be dead by the time the book comes along. So we can't be 100% sure that everyone listed is going to survive until then. It is likely, but we have to be careful about saying they will with certainty. 

That's just my predictions, not facts.

[bmcclure7]

22 hours ago, Hare_Mettle said:

I'm of the opinion that Stormlight's time skip (I've heard rumors of 10-15 years, still not sure if the exact amount has been pinned down) serves two functions in terms of literary composition: Character development and plot development. 

The first is pretty obvious, even if I don't look forward to this. As I've re-read the series three times now, I've come to enjoy RoW slightly more than OB. The sole exception being the ~year long time skip. I understand it was needed to tell the story BS wanted to with Bridge 4, Windrunner squires, etc. But it just wasn't for me and I often wonder if the symmetry of 10 books to the world's significance with 10 strong-armed BS into leaving out some stuff or skipping time as he did so he would hit the 5 and 5 = 10 mark. Doesn't matter, it's just an artistic choice I wasn't a fan of. 

The second function of the time skip is much more interesting to me. 

Roshar has been around for millennia. Wars were fought that lasted centuries. Time means nothing for Spren or Shard Vessels. This is a series about long, cultural and 'scientific' evolutions that culminated in the True Desolation...then something will happen in KoWT. 

Whatever this plot point/event is will have sort of conclusion, but then will continue with the later half. 

So here's my question: What sort of event or resolution could be entertaining enough, satisfying enough, logical enough and meaningful enough to END one story, then have NEW problems or events come about in Books 6-10? 

To me, there are only so many avenues/options where any sort of time skip is feasible...let alone one that can be upended only 10-15 years later. 

The most obvious is a new oath pact formed, some of our old heralds (or not) and some new characters are sent to Braize and after 10-15 years one of them breaks. (If it goes this way, my prediction is Adolin is made a herald who chooses to wield Maya instead of an Honorblade, thus being the first Herald without powers - something the originals HAD but didn't NEED as their original purpose was to guide humans and help them, something Adolin is damn good at.)

After this idea though, I'm lost. Which means this won't happen because it's too obvious. But WHAT could be conclusive enough to end Part 1, but then cause problems enough to continue a series Part 2, 15 years later?

If Odium wins, I imagine he'd be ITCHING to get after it and cause some Cosmere chaos. I don't see how anything could happen in a Universe extending War within that time period that would cause a new storyline on ROSHAR to begin. Other planets fighting Odium and FuseDalinar might have problems, but I can't Roshar. They were beat, subdued, conquered and are Odium's grasp now. 

If Dalinar wins, Odium is trapped. 

So I guess this all comes back to Todium seeing a mistake in Hoid's contract and exposing it. (damn) I just went in a circle and ended up at the obvious answer being one we know, but don;'t understand yet (the Sanderson Special his empire has been built on). 

Well anyway, I'm still going to post this and see if anyone can use these parameters to maybe get MORE specific with theories about WHY the time jump exists in terms of its function and how that will be explained? 

 

Rock on, Gons. 

1. Because roshar is destroy by the everstorm and humanity needs 15 years to set up a colony in  the CR.

2. Maybe dalinar wins and the hot war turns on

.3. The storm father dies and it takes 15 years for them to figure out void light and void binding