Invested Persons and Heightenings (SP3 Spoilers)

[Koloss17 She/They]

So what’s the deal with Heightenings? From Warbreaker, we got the impression that it was a specific to Nalthis thing. Then, when it very clearly appeared in Dawnshard, I gathered that it must, instead of being a Nalthis thing, be a Invested being thing. Holding breaths tie them to your Spiritweb, granting Heightenings. Metalborn and Radiants don’t really get Heightenings, as while they hold Investiture, they never really hold it for long, and so they themselves aren’t particularly Invested.

But then here, we get informed that Elantrians are more Invested than Returned, and from what I understand, Elantrians sure don’t have any Heightenings.

 

So what’s the deal? How do you acquire Heightenings? 

[Werewolff Studios he/him]

1 minute ago, Koloss17 said:

So what’s the deal with Heightenings? From Warbreaker, we got the impression that it was a specific to Nalthis thing. Then, when it very clearly appeared in Dawnshard, I gathered that it must, instead of being a Nalthis thing, be a Invested being thing. Holding breaths tie them to your Spiritweb, granting Heightenings. Metalborn and Radiants don’t really get Heightenings, as while they hold Investiture, they never really hold it for long, and so they themselves aren’t particularly Invested.

But then here, we get informed that Elantrians are more Invested than Returned, and from what I understand, Elantrians sure don’t have any Heightenings.

 

So what’s the deal? How do you acquire Heightenings? 

Elantrians don't have Heightenings specifically, as many of those grant BioChromatic abilities which are tied to Endowment's Investiture. However, they do have similar abilities due to being highly Invested. 

For example, they don't age (equivalent of 5th level Heightening) and they likely have perfect colour recognition too (it's just been some time since we've been in an Elantrian POV).

[Koloss17 She/They]

16 minutes ago, Werewolff Studios said:

Elantrians don't have Heightenings specifically, as many of those grant BioChromatic abilities which are tied to Endowment's Investiture. However, they do have similar abilities due to being highly Invested. 

For example, they don't age (equivalent of 5th level Heightening) and they likely have perfect colour recognition too (it's just been some time since we've been in an Elantrian POV).

Yet what’s slipping me up is that Dawnshards have that effect. Which is…odd, to say the least. Why Dawnshards and not Elantrians?

[Werewolff Studios he/him]

16 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

Yet what’s slipping me up is that Dawnshards have that effect. Which is…odd, to say the least. Why Dawnshards and not Elantrians?

Think of it like this - if a spiritweb is infused with enough Investiture (of any kind) they gain perfect colour recognition. A Dawnshard is a massive chunk of raw Investiture, so it suffusing you grants that ability. Relevant WOB below:

Quote

tskyeguye

From Rysn's observations in the epilogue, it seems like she has a lot of the same aspects of a Fifth Heightening/Returned at the least. Is this because her Dawnshard is particularly connected to Endowment or because the effects of a certain level of Investment result in similar effects?

Brandon Sanderson

The latter.

Dawnshard Annotations Reddit Q&A (Nov. 6, 2020)

Again, Elantrians likely do have this ability - it's just the last time we saw an Elantrian POV was in the heat of battle at the end of the book, where something like perfect colour recognition probably went unnoticed.

Yumi might have this ability too, but as it's all she's ever known, she probably thinks nothing of it. 

(The meta reason is that Elantris was published before Warbreaker and Dawnshard, and Brando has built this stuff into the coseme since then) 

Edited July 7, 2023 by Werewolff Studios
Added WOB

[Treamayne]

On 7/6/2023 at 7:40 PM, Werewolff Studios said:

Elantrians don't have Heightenings specifically, <snip>. However, they do have similar abilities due to being highly Invested. 

Concur, they likely have the first five heightenings - but not until after Raoden fixed the Connection.

On 7/6/2023 at 8:08 PM, Werewolff Studios said:

it's just the last time we saw an Elantrian POV was in the heat of battle at the end of the book, where something like perfect colour recognition probably went unnoticed.

More specifically - after he drew the Chasm Line south of the city - the POVs are:

• Fighting Fjorden soldiers left in Elantris
• Going to Teoras
• Fighting in Teoras
• Wedding Scene
• Funeral Scene
• Beginning and End of Hope of Elantris

Not much space in there to dwell on Perfect Pitch or Color Recognition. A bit frantic to notice Lifesense - though the way Dilaf got the drop on him may mean either it's not part of the package - or Dilaf's nature avoided detection that way. However, while not a POV, OB Ch 97 has some indirect evidence of Elantrian Lifesense:

Spoiler

Inside, he saw an old Shin man—with furrowed, wrinkled skin and a completely bald head—sitting in a chair, reading by spherelight. A human? Kaladin couldn’t decide if that was a good sign or not. The old man began to turn a page in his book, then froze, looking up.

Kaladin ducked down, heart thumping. Those stupid anticipationspren continued to crowd nearby, but their tongues shouldn’t be visible through the window—

“Hello?” an accented voice called from inside the lighthouse. “Who’s out there? Show yourself!”

Kaladin sighed, then stood up.

I'd guess we'll get more (confirmation or refutation) in Elantris 2 if/when that happens.

 

Edited July 12, 2023 by Treamayne
SPAG

[Werewolff Studios he/him]

7 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

A bit frantic to notice Lifesense - though the way Dilaf got the drop on him may mean either it's not part of the package - or Dilaf's nature avoided detection that way. However, while not a POV, OB Ch 97 has some indirect evidence of Elantrian Lifesense:

  Reveal hidden contents

nside, he saw an old Shin man—with furrowed, wrinkled skin and a completely bald head—sitting in a chair, reading by spherelight. A human? Kaladin couldn’t decide if that was a good sign or not. The old man began to turn a page in his book, then froze, looking up.

Kaladin ducked down, heart thumping. Those stupid anticipationspren continued to crowd nearby, but their tongues shouldn’t be visible through the window—

“Hello?” an accented voice called from inside the lighthouse. “Who’s out there? Show yourself!”

Kaladin sighed, then stood up.

I'd guess we'll get more (confirmation or refutation) in Elantris 2 if/when that happens.

Whoa, that's such a great catch! Hadn't considered that before, but now that you've pointed it out it makes a lot of sense.

[Koloss17 She/They]

26 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Concur, they likely have the first five heightenings - but not until after Raoden fixed the Connection.

More specifically - after he drew the Chasm Line south of the city - the POVs are:

• Fighting Fjorden soldiers left in Elantris
• Going to Teoras
• Fighting in Teoras
• Wedding Scene
• Funeral Scene
• Beginning and End of Hope of Elantris

Not much space in there to dwell on Perfect Pitch or Color Recognition. A bit frantic to notice Lifesense - though the way Dilaf got the drop on him may mean either it's not part of the package - or Dilaf's nature avoided detection that way. However, while not a POV, OB Ch 97 has some indirect evidence of Elantrian Lifesense:

  Reveal hidden contents

nside, he saw an old Shin man—with furrowed, wrinkled skin and a completely bald head—sitting in a chair, reading by spherelight. A human? Kaladin couldn’t decide if that was a good sign or not. The old man began to turn a page in his book, then froze, looking up.

Kaladin ducked down, heart thumping. Those stupid anticipationspren continued to crowd nearby, but their tongues shouldn’t be visible through the window—

“Hello?” an accented voice called from inside the lighthouse. “Who’s out there? Show yourself!”

Kaladin sighed, then stood up.

I'd guess we'll get more (confirmation or refutation) in Elantris 2 if/when that happens.

 

Frankly, that’s possible! My only slight wonder ace then is that of the biochromatic aura, as Dawnshard seemed to suggest that was also a thing, unless I’m reading too much into it.

[Treamayne]

6 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

Frankly, that’s possible! My only slight wonder ace then is that of the biochromatic aura, as Dawnshard seemed to suggest that was also a thing, unless I’m reading too much into it.

No, I concur that actually affecting the colors around you is probably an effect of Breath specifically. While Rysn's experience is noticibly different (Dawnshard Epilogue):

Spoiler

Storms. Was it her, or did this tea taste extra good? She inspected it, then glanced at the sunlight pouring through the porthole. Was it . . . brighter than usual? Why did the colors in her room look so exceptionally vivid all of a sudden?

A knock came at her door.

“Come in,” she said, taking another sip of the wonderful tea.

Captain Drlwan entered, then bowed. Outside, Cord continued her vigil of guarding Rysn’s door—wearing full Shardplate. “You’re really going to let her keep it?” Drlwan said softly as she came up from her bow.

“Cord discovered it,” Rysn said.

So, a Breath Aura changes the colors it encounters (with more breath both making the affected area larger, and causing a more noticible change) - but Rysn is the only one that can sense the affect of her aura. The Dawnshard affected her senses (Color Recognition, Perfect Pitch, and taste (not seen with breath. . . yet)), but the Captain does not notice any of these changes - only Rysn can sense them. Possibly more important, RoW Interlude 8 does not show Chiri-Chiri noticing the effects of Rysn's Aura. It's not defnitive, but I would expect an Investiturevore to be a bit more sensitive to sensing something like that if the effect was actually her aura changing the area around Rysn instead of it simply changing Rysn's sense of her environment.

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

I was going to say that Heightening-like abilities could be the result of having a lot of Investiture specifically become part of your soul as opposed to just holding it, which is about the only commonality I could come up with between Breaths and a Dawnshard. As for why Elantrians don't have it, I had intended to bank on the idea that maybe the Dor doesn't truly become part of their soul, but we don't really know that for sure, and in light of the Lighthouse-in-Shadesmar scene it seems that they likely do. It depends on whether Brandon wants to keep the ability from them and introduce a workaround for why not, or if he's going to just go with the idea that it was always there and they just didn't notice.

But yeah, I think that just holding a lot of Investiture won't be enough to get a Heightening, it has to become part of your soul to take effect, and Yumi probably had it.

Edit: But if Yoki-Hijo are more Invested than Returned, how come they aren't ageless? Yumi and the 13 other Yoki-Hijo don't seem to be immortal (at least prior to becoming Cognitive Shadows, at which point they obvious were)

Edited July 7, 2023 by Underwater_Worldhopper

[Treamayne]

19 minutes ago, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

or if he's going to just go with the idea that it was always there and they just didn't notice.

Or the Reod in Elantris meant it didn't apply because they had not finished their transformation; and we don't know what they did or didn't notice due to a lack of POV time after they were "fixed."

Edited July 7, 2023 by Treamayne

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

4 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

Or the Reod in Elantris meant it didn;t apply because they had not finished their transformation, and we don't know what they did or didn't notice due to a lack of POV time after they were "fixed."

Right, I meant they didn't notice as fully-fledged Elantrians.

[Cocoa he/him]

On 7/6/2023 at 6:49 PM, Treamayne said:

Concur, they likely have the first five heightenings - but not until after Raoden fixed the Connection.

More specifically - after he drew the Chasm Line south of the city - the POVs are:

• Fighting Fjorden soldiers left in Elantris
• Going to Teoras
• Fighting in Teoras
• Wedding Scene
• Funeral Scene
• Beginning and End of Hope of Elantris

Not much space in there to dwell on Perfect Pitch or Color Recognition. A bit frantic to notice Lifesense - though the way Dilaf got the drop on him may mean either it's not part of the package - or Dilaf's nature avoided detection that way. However, while not a POV, OB Ch 97 has some indirect evidence of Elantrian Lifesense:

  Reveal hidden contents

Inside, he saw an old Shin man—with furrowed, wrinkled skin and a completely bald head—sitting in a chair, reading by spherelight. A human? Kaladin couldn’t decide if that was a good sign or not. The old man began to turn a page in his book, then froze, looking up.

Kaladin ducked down, heart thumping. Those stupid anticipationspren continued to crowd nearby, but their tongues shouldn’t be visible through the window—

“Hello?” an accented voice called from inside the lighthouse. “Who’s out there? Show yourself!”

Kaladin sighed, then stood up.

I'd guess we'll get more (confirmation or refutation) in Elantris 2 if/when that happens.

 

I concur with all of this, but there's also one other thing worth considering: Elantris was the first published cosmere novel. Yes, Bandon was already tinkering with the rest of it by that time, but it's also quite possible that he just hadn't seized upon the idea of heightenings as a universal investiture effect yet, as opposed to being Biochroma-specific. With that in mind, the Elantrians failing to show signs of heightenings way back when could easily be just an oversight, much like how Brandon admits there's some weirdness surrounding Atium being able to be pushed and pulled despite being pure investiture, simply because he didn't have the rest of the Cosmere fleshed out yet when he put that detail down on paper.

[Treamayne]

14 minutes ago, Cocoa said:

I concur with all of this, but there's also one other thing worth considering: Elantris was the first published cosmere novel. Yes, Bandon was already tinkering with the rest of it by that time, but it's also quite possible that he just hadn't seized upon the idea of heightenings as a universal investiture effect yet, as opposed to being Biochroma-specific. With that in mind, the Elantrians failing to show signs of heightenings way back when could easily be just an oversight, much like how Brandon admits there's some weirdness surrounding Atium being able to be pushed and pulled despite being pure investiture, simply because he didn't have the rest of the Cosmere fleshed out yet when he put that detail down on paper.

Well, sure if you want to get all Meta - <grin> - I was trying to define in-story reasons they might not have noticed these passive side benefits (besides being new to the transformation). Not to mention find possible supporting evidence elsewhere (Riino).

[Config2]

On 7/7/2023 at 4:00 PM, Underwater_Worldhopper said:

Edit: But if Yoki-Hijo are more Invested than Returned, how come they aren't ageless? Yumi and the 13 other Yoki-Hijo don't seem to be immortal (at least prior to becoming Cognitive Shadows, at which point they obvious were)

I think it's worth noting that Returned aren't ageless. They initially start at the fifth heightening in terms of investiture, but cognitive shadows by nature don't seem to age.

Non-cognitive shadows with the fifth heightening or Elantrians, who are both supposed to be ageless, are better examples to ask this question (which is a great question) with.

Possible causes:

1. Their level of investiture changes over time, allowing them to age when it dips below a certain point.
2. Yoki-Hijo aren't super crazy invested when they weren't cognitive shadows (or maybe Yumi's insane stacking rocks skills have let her accumulate investiture over 1700 years).
3. The Yoki-Hijo (not Yumi after being brought back to life, since they are probably different) are immortal/ageless when they want to be. It's implied that they were imprisoned if they didn't do their duty. I think there is a WOB which says that ageless folks can choose to stop being ageless if they want. It is implied that the number of Yoki-Hijo changes, since they say "currently 14" a lot. Also, the tone of Yumi's self image isn't really consistent with this, but it's a option at least.

 

[Underwater_Worldhopper he/him]

9 hours ago, Config2 said:

I think it's worth noting that Returned aren't ageless. They initially start at the fifth heightening in terms of investiture, but cognitive shadows by nature don't seem to age.

They are ageless, but they're just a different brand of it. It's a good distinction to make, but the book calls it out as "More than a Returned", so that's what was on my mind.

9 hours ago, Config2 said:

Non-cognitive shadows with the fifth heightening or Elantrians, who are both supposed to be ageless, are better examples to ask this question (which is a great question) with.

Possible causes:

1. Their level of investiture changes over time, allowing them to age when it dips below a certain point.

This one seems likely to me. Child Returned also age until a certain point, so maybe they grow roughly normally, stop at their peak, then begin aging once more when the Investiture drops.

9 hours ago, Config2 said:

1. Yoki-Hijo aren't super crazy invested when they weren't cognitive shadows (or maybe Yumi's insane stacking rocks skills have let her accumulate investiture over 1700 years).

They would have had to have been, else they couldn't have pulled themselves free of the Shroud and then remained free of the Machine's true influence.

9 hours ago, Config2 said:

1. The Yoki-Hijo (not Yumi after being brought back to life, since they are probably different) are immortal/ageless when they want to be. It's implied that they were imprisoned if they didn't do their duty. I think there is a WOB which says that ageless folks can choose to stop being ageless if they want. It is implied that the number of Yoki-Hijo changes, since they say "currently 14" a lot. Also, the tone of Yumi's self image isn't really consistent with this, but it's a option at least.

I feel like that would have been acknowledged by Yumi at some point if that were the case. Plus all the "currently 14" stuff makes it sound like the number changes often, at least often in that some of them die and don't get replaced, and other times more children are blessed. I don't think I've seen a WoB that says they could choose to stop being ageless, unless you're talking about Cognitive Shadows specifically, who can choose to go to the Beyond at any point instead of persisting indefinitely. You could get rid of the Investiture to do that, like giving away your Breaths, but not while the Investiture is in you. I don't think this one is an option. Though all we have are implications, they all imply that they weren't ageless.

[IlstrawberrySeed]

Brandon Has confirmed that Yumi is immortal (aging wise) (Shard cast interview) but her perception will likely cause her to age, though probably not to the point of death. Additionally, he confirmed that most Yuki Hijo are slightly less invested than an Alantrian.

I do think there is another difference though, an Alantrian is basically an investiture sink, at all moments so much investiture is being shoved through their bodies that they glow like Radiants from leakage. Their investiture is more like Svanthood than Breaths or Yuki, since those go to the soul directly.