lore Stormlight archive topics

[shardnuke]

add any ideas or theories in this book

[shardnuke]

humans were in roshar before odium came because in the book it says herdizians had shell for fingernails this means humans had parshendi or chull ancestors because on another planet there wouldnt be chulls or parshmen

[Ookla the Confusing]

This just mean sthe human/singer interbreeding happened after arriving on roshar.

[shardnuke]

i dont think so 

 

[shardnuke]

you wouldnt just breed with a new species that arrived

[ftl]

I mean at this point they've had several thousand years to mix

[alder24]

6 hours ago, shardnuke said:

humans were in roshar before odium came because in the book it says herdizians had shell for fingernails this means humans had parshendi or chull ancestors because on another planet there wouldnt be chulls or parshmen

Chull ancestors? Someone looked at a chull and said "oh yeah, I love you! Let's start a family together!"?  

Herdazian and Horneaters are the result of human and Singers interbreeding after they had arrived on Roshar with Odium. 

Spoiler

HorseCannon

I didn't realize Horneaters had parshmen blood, didn't even realize that was possible. How closely are humans and parshmen related, do they have a common ancestor? Or is one an artificially created version of the other?

Brandon Sanderson

There was intermixing long ago. Horneaters and Herdazians are both a result. (Signs of this are the stone carapace on Herdazian fingernails and the Horneater extra jaw pieces--in the back of the mouth--for breaking shells.)

Humans and parshmen don't have a common ancestor. And as a side note, both of these strains of humanoids predate the ascension of Honor, Cultivation, and Odium.

ccstat

Are there Aimian-Human hybrids as well? (Either type of Aimian) If so, are the Thaylen people one of these?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO.

Blightsong

*via private message*

Some of us believe that you are saying that humans and listeners existed pre-Shattering while some of us believe that you are saying that Horneaters and Herdazians existed pre-Shattering (you have mentioned that humans had been on Roshar since before the Shattering recently). What were you trying to say here?

Brandon Sanderson

Humans (other than those on Yolen) existed pre-Shattering, as did parshmen.

Footnote: Blightsong's parenthetical statement is mistaken; there is no source claiming that humans had been on Roshar since before the Shattering.
General Reddit 2015 (Nov. 16, 2015)

 

5 hours ago, shardnuke said:

you wouldnt just breed with a new species that arrived

They had 7000 years for that - that's quite a lot of time for them to get close to each other and interbreed.

The Eila Stele for me is proof that Singers hadn't met humans before Ashynites arrived on Roshar. If there were humans already on Roshar, the Eila Stele wouldn't put so much emphasis on humans inability to hear Rhythms of Roshar, their soft skin with no shell etc. The description is meant to be a clear warning for other Singers who had never met humans to know how they look and to avoid them - if there were humans already on Roshar they would just say "those otherworlders look like our humans".

Quote

They came from another world, using powers that we have been forbidden to touch. Dangerous powers, of spren and Surges. They destroyed their lands and have come to us begging. We took them in, as commanded by the gods. What else could we do? They were a people forlorn, without a home. Our pity destroyed us. For their betrayal extended even to our gods: to spren, stone, and wind. Beware the otherworlders. The traitors. Those with tongues of sweetness, but with minds that lust for blood. Do not take them in. Do not give them succor. Well were they named Voidbringers, for they brought the void. The empty pit that sucks in emotion. A new god. Their god. These Voidbringers know no songs. They cannot hear Roshar, and where they go, they bring silence. They look soft, with no shell, but they are hard. They have but one heart, and it cannot ever live.

 

 

And please avoid double posting. You can edit your post and add more by using "edit" option at the bottom of your post:

Spoiler

At the bottom left of a post you will see a "+" icon, a "Quote" link, and (your posts only) and Edit and Options tools. On the bottom right you will see an up arrow.

• The Up Arrow is how you thank people or "like" a post
• The "Quote" link is exactly that, when you click it the quote will be added to the reply at the bottom of the thread wherever the cursor is
  • So, if you have already started to reply before you decide to quote you can then add the quote before or after your text depending on the cursor location when you click "Quote"
• The + icon is multi-quote. As you read a thread, if you want to quote multiple items you click that for each post
  • As you click +, you should see a toaster pop-up on the bottom right of the browser window showing how many quotes you will have
  • They are added in the order you click the + icon, not in the original post order, so you can set the order of quotes for your reply
  • When you are ready to reply, click on the toaster pop-up and it will take you directly to the reply section and add the quotes automatically
• Finally, you can also highlight a small section of a post and, when hovering over the highlit portion, click the "Quote" button that pops up.
• Also note that you can move quotes after they have been added to your reply.
  • For example, you add a quote and realize there are no empty lines below it for you to type - so you can hit "enter" before the quote to make an empty line then when you hover over a quote you will see a 4-way arrow at the top-left that you can use to drag the quote up (or down)  and move the quote to before the empty line. . .
• Use the Edit link to make changes to a completed post or add information to your post if it is the most recent (to avoid double posting)
  • Quote buttons will still send a quote to "Reply" if you have a post open for edit, but it is easy to cut/paste the quote to the Edit box
  • Editing the first post in a thread allows the thread-creator to edit the thread title.
  • Editing allows you to add a reason for the edit (Spelling and grammar (SPAG), formatting, clarification, new information, etc.), but it is not required.
• Next to Edit you will also find an "options" dropbox, you can use this to hide your post if you want to remove it after posting
• At the top of a post you will find "Report Post"
  • Use this if you do accidentally double-post (sometimes it's the browser or a slow link that causes a double post) - just leave a message that it was an accidental double post and the Mods can fix it. If it was the first post of a new thread that doubled, they usually can merge the threads if they both have answers, so all of the content is retained.

Hope that helps.

 

[shardnuke]

ok that makes sense, thanks

in the book it says the wit (HOID) is more ancient then the heralds

This means that he was one of the first people to bond a spren 

he was probably one of the first people to arrive with odium

[Treamayne]

2 hours ago, shardnuke said:

ok that makes sense, thanks

in the book it says the wit (HOID) is more ancient then the heralds

This means that he was one of the first people to bond a spren 

he was probably one of the first people to arrive with odium

How much of Stormlight Archive have you read? (Oathbringer spoilers)

Spoiler

Wit found Design at the end of Oathbringer and they bonded between Oathbringer and Rhythm of War. Also, Hoid is not from Ashyn, the planet from which the Heralds (and other refugees emigrated). He did not come to Roshar with those refugees or Odium (but has been to Roshar in the past before the events of the current stories). Other Cosmere spoilers:

Spoiler

Hoid knew Odium's vessel Rayse, before Rayse ascended to become Odium. Those events will be detailed in the eventual Dragonsteel novels, currently expected to be released after Stormlight Archive 10 is complete.

 

 

[alder24]

10 hours ago, shardnuke said:

in the book it says the wit (HOID) is more ancient then the heralds

This means that he was one of the first people to bond a spren 

he was probably one of the first people to arrive with odium

Not really, but close. He is even more ancient than Heralds (Heralds never bonded with spren except for Nale which happened after Radiant Orders were established) and he has never bonded any spren before bonding Design, nor did he come from the same place as Heralds (Ashyn, they were alive when the destruction of Ashyn happened and they migrated from Ashyn to Roshar, but people on Ashyn lived there likely far longer than Heralds are alive). He is way older than them, and came from a very different place. At some point he has said that "there is only one person as old as he is on Roshar, and she dislikes him" - he was talking about Cultivation's Vessel, Koravellium Avast.

Spoiler

asmodeus

In Words of Radiance, Hoid says that there's only one person as old as him around, and seems to be referring to Cultivation's vessel. In Rhythm of War, he mentions there's a dragon on Roshar.

Are these two individuals the same, or are they separate?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. These two are the same.

General Reddit 2020 (Nov. 22, 2020)

 

There are multiple hits in SA about Hoid, mostly in Letters in epigraphs and few in the Dawnshard novella (not directly). Others are mentioned in the Mistborn series but most information we have about his are from WoBs. So slight Cosmere-wide spoilers about Hoid:

Spoiler

Hoid came from Yolen, he is ancient, more than 10000 years old. He knows every Vessel because they all took part in the Shattering of Adonalsium, killing a god which divided his power into 16 aspects - Shards like Honor, Cultivation and Odium. Others present there Ascended and become Shards but he didn't want to. Since then he was traveling between different worlds telling and collecting stories, and also planning - he was and still is worried about the threat posed by Odium and wants to counter it.

Because of his traveling between worlds he was on Roshar multiple times in ancient times - he knows some Fused and Heralds (per OB epilogue and Ash PoV from last chapters), but he didn't arrive on Ashyn/Roshar with Odium - he knows Odium and Rayse from way before that. Odium arrived later on Roshar than Honor and Cultivation, because he was busy Splintering Shards (said in letters). Hoid however was never on good terms with Rayse.

 

[shardnuke]

Then how did Hoid live for one thousand years, it could have been the way the heralds and szeth are immortal because of the ghost thing but he is older then the heralds.

Edited July 4 by shardnuke

[Ookla the Silver]

4 minutes ago, shardnuke said:

Then how did Hoid live for one thousand years, it could have been the way the heralds and szeth are immortal because of the ghost thing but he is older then the heralds.

So that's a long explanation, i'm not sure what kind of spoiler this is but 
Cosmere? Unpublished? WOBs? Just the nature of hoid.

Spoiler

Hoid once held a dawnshard (He does not have one now), just like Rysn does now. This, at least in part, granted his agelessness and inability to die. The other part was the weapon used to kill Ado. The weapon was made of the dawnshards, though they might have been altered.

 

Quote

Brandon Sanderson

Hoid was a Dawnshard at some point in the deep past, and the reason he (even still) cannot physically harm people, or even eat meat, is related to the changes this made to his spirit. (Consider this the same fundamental principle as savanthood.) The few of you who have read Dragonsteel know that him being a Dawnshard was also the source of his immortality in that book, though the terms were different back then. (The word Dawnshard was never mentioned, for example--though the primary story of Dragonsteel (which is no longer canon) was about several people who unwittingly become Dawnshards.)

And a preemptive RAFO to all questions on this point.

Dawnshard Annotations (Nov. 6, 2020)

Quote

Valhalla

So, you talked about a weapon made by the enemies of Adonalsium, and you said it doesn't exist in it's original form. Do any remnants of it still exist in the Physical Realm?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Valhalla

Have we seen any of those remnants on-screen?

Brandon Sanderson

*pause* RAFO.

In current continuity (and people would know this), Hoid's immortality comes from this. People who have read Dragonsteel know that.

Idaho Falls signing (July 21, 2018)

 

 

[Treamayne]

16 minutes ago, shardnuke said:

Then how did Hoid live for one thousand years, it could have been the way the heralds and szeth are immortal because of the ghost thing but he is older then the heralds.

That is a good question, that has not yet fully been answered. WoB (Cosmere Spoilers):

Spoiler

Iceblade44

So White Sand [then Elantris] is earlier... Then how the heck old is Khriss then? Will we ever get an answer as to why every worldhopper is flippin' immortal?

Brandon Sanderson

There is some time-dilation going on. I'll explain it eventually; we're almost to the point where I can start talking about that. Suffice it to say that there's a mix of both actual slowing of the aging process and relative time going on, depending on the individual. Very few are actually immortal.

Faera

Implying that some are actually immortal?

Brandon Sanderson

Depends on which definition of immortal you mean:

• Doesn't age, but can be killed by conventional means. (You've seen some of these in the cosmere, but I'll leave you to discuss who.)
• Heals from wounds, but still ages. (Knights Radiant with Stormlight are like this.)
• Reborn when killed. (The Heralds.)
• Doesn't age and can heal, but dependent upon magic to stay this way, and so have distinct weakness to be exploited. (The Lord Ruler, among others.)
• Hive beings who are constantly losing individual members, but maintaining a persistent personality spread across all of them, immortal in that as long as too much of the hive isn't wiped out, the personality can persist. (The Sleepless.)
• Bits of sapient magic, eternal and endless, though the personality can be "destroyed" in specific ways. (Seons. Spren. Nightblood. Cognitive Shadows, like a certain character from Scadrial.)
• Shards (Really just a supercharged version of the previous category.)

And then, of course, there's Hoid. I'm not going to say which category, if any, he's in.

 

[Ookla the Silver]

1 minute ago, Treamayne said:

That is a good question, that has not yet fully been answered. WoB (Cosmere Spoilers):

  Hide contents

Iceblade44

So White Sand [then Elantris] is earlier... Then how the heck old is Khriss then? Will we ever get an answer as to why every worldhopper is flippin' immortal?

Brandon Sanderson

There is some time-dilation going on. I'll explain it eventually; we're almost to the point where I can start talking about that. Suffice it to say that there's a mix of both actual slowing of the aging process and relative time going on, depending on the individual. Very few are actually immortal.

Faera

Implying that some are actually immortal?

Brandon Sanderson

Depends on which definition of immortal you mean:

• Doesn't age, but can be killed by conventional means. (You've seen some of these in the cosmere, but I'll leave you to discuss who.)
• Heals from wounds, but still ages. (Knights Radiant with Stormlight are like this.)
• Reborn when killed. (The Heralds.)
• Doesn't age and can heal, but dependent upon magic to stay this way, and so have distinct weakness to be exploited. (The Lord Ruler, among others.)
• Hive beings who are constantly losing individual members, but maintaining a persistent personality spread across all of them, immortal in that as long as too much of the hive isn't wiped out, the personality can persist. (The Sleepless.)
• Bits of sapient magic, eternal and endless, though the personality can be "destroyed" in specific ways. (Seons. Spren. Nightblood. Cognitive Shadows, like a certain character from Scadrial.)
• Shards (Really just a supercharged version of the previous category.)

And then, of course, there's Hoid. I'm not going to say which category, if any, he's in.

 

I think hoid also counts as a sliver? 

[shardnuke]

Also what dosnt make sense is that all the books take place in different time periods

if he got his spren design at the end of oathbringer this dosnt make sense 

because he wouldnt have time to always be with jasnah and be in worlds.

Edited July 4 by shardnuke

[ftl]

15 minutes ago, shardnuke said:

Also what dosnt make sense is that all the books take place in different time periods

if he got his spren design at the end of oathbringer this dosnt make sense 

because he wouldnt have time to always be with jasnah and be in worlds.

He got his spren at the end of oathbringer, but as far as we know he doesn't leave Roshar during the Stormlight Archive story, he stays there and has time to be with Jasnah.

[shardnuke]

but then it spoils the city becase he survived

and he didnt need to listen to odium

 

[alder24]

10 hours ago, Argenti said:

I think hoid also counts as a sliver? 

Not really, more like a Dawnsliver:

Spoiler

Questioner

Is Hoid a Sliver?

Brandon Sanderson

A Sliver, no he’s not, good question.

Questioner

Well, I get the RAFO card.

Brandon Sanderson

He... see, the problem is, “Sliver” is really difficult to define, because it has variety of meanings, but I would not call him one. So that’s… it’s arguable, but I would say no.

Questioner

He's not Sliver.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah.

Kraków signing (March 21, 2017)

 

Spoiler

asmodeus

Can you tell us a little bit more about what these things are? The book itself gives us a lot in very little, so it'd be nice to get some perspective on how you think about these. Not necessarily fishing for more information, just... clarity on what we just learned.

Brandon Sanderson

By "these things" do you mean the Dawnshards? In this case, I can't say more, I'm afraid. They're plot points in future books, and I maybe already explained more than I should have.

asmodeus

I was mostly wondering what happened in the cave. It's... it feels like the Command to change, to remake, was somehow imprinted or passed onto a mural, and then when Rysn looked at it, it passed back onto, and perhaps into her.

Where I'm a little confused is... is the Command, the Dawnshard, "binding" to her as this thing outside of her, or is it becoming a part of her? Or are these two cases, depending on how you look at this, the same thing?

Also, curious based on how the mural was described in terms of four fours, but is the number of Shards being 16 a function of how the four Dawnshards were used to Shatter?

Brandon Sanderson

Mostly RAFOs, here, I'm afraid.

To those in-world, she now IS the Dawnshard. Whether that's what the community thinks is another story.

Phantine

Would that make Hoid a "Dawnsliver", or is there some other fancypants terms for it?

Brandon Sanderson

Depends on a variety of things, Phantine. But I'd be okay with that terminology. It's basically accurate.

Gale_Emchild

Does that mean that before she became the Dawnshard that the wall was?

Brandon Sanderson

More the mural. But yes, that would be the implication. Note that it was not an ordinary mural.

Dawnshard Annotations Reddit Q&A (Nov. 6, 2020)

 

10 hours ago, shardnuke said:

Also what dosnt make sense is that all the books take place in different time periods

if he got his spren design at the end of oathbringer this dosnt make sense 

because he wouldnt have time to always be with jasnah and be in worlds.

No he wouldn't. Who's to say he will be with Jasnah all the time? She will die of old age one day, he won't. He might just bring Design with him if he finds a way to get her out of Roshar (which is really hard to do). This just makes him more interesting. 

At least for Stormlight Archive the time period is relatively short (there will be like 10-20 years of break in between SA 5 and SA 6), so Hoid could be present on Roshar during the entire 10 books of SA, and we will be reading about mostly the same characters we already know. But for other books it just makes it more interesting to have big time separation between series (to see how magic and technology can progress together) and be introduced to new sets of characters every time period, rather than reading about old characters all the way till the end of Cosmere. 

6 hours ago, shardnuke said:

but then it spoils the city becase he survived

and he didnt need to listen to odium

What "spoils the city because he survived"? Kholinar? No. His "survival" has nothing to do with Kholinar's fall to Odium. And yes, he doesn't have to listen to Odium nor any other Shard. Why would he need to do that? He's a free person. 

[Ookla the Silver]

8 hours ago, alder24 said:

Not really, more like a Dawnsliver

Oh god it's even worse.