Orson Scott Card's Review of SA

[traceria she/her]

Here's the link to the review.

 

 

I don't always keep up with OSC's reviews these days, and often times I'll only read the ones that include something that interests me in the topic.  Such was the case today when I wandered onto Mr. Card's site.

 

Can you tell I'm a Sanderfan because I was getting a little defensive when reading things like, "And to Brandon Sanderson, I must offer a personal note: Write down or record all your plans for the whole series -- key events you foresee, the probably fate of the important characters, and solutions to the main mysteries about the past and the present which the characters -- and the readers -- are eagerly hoping to resolve."?

 

Those of us on this forum and who try to keep up to date on Brandon's writing and so forth, we know he's got this under control.  I don't for the slightest moment feel my faith is unfounded here.  I know things can happen we can't control, but of all the writer's to make this request to, Brandon Sanderson seems like the last one who would need it.

 

Anyhow, any other thoughts on the review?

 

[lyht]

It is funny to read those words from Card, knowing what we know of Brandon's obsessive world building. It was funny also that he presented the information of the plan for 10 books as if from some inside source. Like this was a secret but he got the inside scoop, when Brandon has said so publicly in multiple interviews.

 

However, overall, I really liked the review. He seemed to really love the books, as he seems to have loved everything Brandon has written. And he was glowing in his praise of Brandon's magic systems, and perhaps even more important his ability to understand human nature and putting compelling characters into awesome stories.

 

He even went so far as to say there could not be a better use of your time than to read these two books this summer. Unless there is still something of his you have not read... cheeky!

[Argent he/him]

Yeah, I felt... defensive. Protective. A little negative, apprehensive. I understand that in its core, the review was very high praise. But the way OSC delivered made it (sound) at least a little negative, if not patronizing. 

[traceria she/her]

It is funny to read those words from Card, knowing what we know of Brandon's obsessive world building. It was funny also that he presented the information of the plan for 10 books as if from some inside source. Like this was a secret but he got the inside scoop, when Brandon has said so publicly in multiple interviews.

 

However, overall, I really liked the review. He seemed to really love the books, as he seems to have loved everything Brandon has written. And he was glowing in his praise of Brandon's magic systems, and perhaps even more important his ability to understand human nature and putting compelling characters into awesome stories.

 

He even went so far as to say there could not be a better use of your time than to read these two books this summer. Unless there is still something of his you have not read... cheeky!

 

I thought it funny how he mentioned that, too.  I've posted over on the forums there about SA and Brandon's other books, and after being on this site, where my knowledge often feels only average compared to other posters, I instead seemed to be one of the few posters there that knew a lot about Brandon's works in general.  Perhaps that is just bleeding through to Card's own late coming to this knowledge!

 

It was generally a really good review.  Agreed!  OSC is actually the reason I ever picked up Elantris, the first Sanderson book I ever read.    He did a review of it not terribly long after it came out.

 

(Edit to clarify.)

Edited July 11, 2014 by traceria

[lyht]

However, one other point from the review I want to make:

 

I think his initial point was just "Please don't let the fans down on such an ambitious project. Please make sure that if something were to happen to you, your story could be finished and told"

 

That I happen to agree with. And while I have full faith in all the information that Brandon has created that could help someone else complete the series if something happened to him, I hope beyond hope that nothing does. I really just want him to finish it.

Yeah, I felt... defensive. Protective. A little negative, apprehensive. I understand that in its core, the review was very high praise. But the way OSC delivered made it (sound) at least a little negative, if not patronizing.

 

Yah, it was a bit patronizing. He's like that. One of Card's flaws.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Rubix
Please don't double post. Use the edit button instead.

[Terisen he/him]

Maybe it's because I read OSC's reviews a lot, but I see this as high praise.  Generally, if he doesn't like it, he will let you know in no uncertain terms.  We here obsess over the minutiae of the novels, something that a person like Card doesn't (outside of his own novels).  Defensiveness is kinda expected.  

 

But you get lines like these that show Card loved the two books:

 

But there can be no doubt that The Stormlight Archives is meant to be his magnum opus, and deserves to be.

 

Thus the storytelling in The Stormlight Archives is lush and endlessly surprising, yet never feels false or contrived.

 

They're good because he understands human nature, and writes compelling characters into exciting, moving, intelligent stories.

 

Yep, he likes the books!  He also loved the Mistborn trilogy.  Gave that a glowing review a few years back.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Terisen

[traceria she/her]

Terisen, I think I actually missed the Mistborn review.  After reading Elantris, I just naturally segued to it without needing Card's push.  Huh!  Now I want to go find it...

 

lyht, I hear you.  Please, Domi, Stormfather or whatever diety we need to petition, let nothing happen!  Besides which, it would be a real tragedy with all writing considerations aside.

[Edgedancer he/him]

The review is good, both in how it is written and in how he seems to think of the books. Now, the start is less of a review and more an essay of the risks in writting long storys but, given that he most likely dosen´t keep up with everything we know about Brandon, and he doesn´t really have a reason as to why he should, it is justified.

What´s really funny is that he worrys about SA being 10 books, when it is only a part of the Cosmere, which if I remember right is set to span 36 books.

[Stormfather]

I've met Card a few times over the years and I can tell you the review is just who he is.  You have to be willing look past how he says some things because like all of us he sometimes comes across in a different way than he intends but his heart is in the right place.  I think he threw in the write things down because that was why Brandon was brought in to finish Wheel of Time and was the primary reason it took as long as it did, because Jordan was scrambling to write down what he wanted and didn't have everything planed.  More than likely he was trying to make a joke about Jordan.  I agree we don't have to worry about this with Brandon, but I wouldn't let yourself get too bent out of shape about Card.  Is he patronizing?  Yes.  I think Card is just truly a fan like we are and wants things to end the way Brandon envisions because no one has done what Brandon is doing with the Cosmere and because of that if something does happen we will never know.  But I think Brandon writes fast enough and has enough planned that we will not run into the Jordan issue.

 

What´s really funny is that he worrys about SA being 10 books, when it is only a part of the Cosmere, which if I remember right is set to span 36 books.

 

I think I remember reading Brandon saying that 36 is a soft number as well and it could grow.

Edited July 11, 2014 by WeiryWriter
please don't double post

[Swimmingly he/him]

Yeah, given to an author already firmly entrenched in the genre, the review seemed a little...snobby. And I think that the fight scene in TES flipped it firmly into the fantasy side of magic realism vs.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

Yeah, I felt... defensive. Protective. A little negative, apprehensive. I understand that in its core, the review was very high praise. But the way OSC delivered made it (sound) at least a little negative, if not patronizing. 

 

I definitely felt the same way but that may because I'm not really a fan of OSC, he writes good books but as a person I don't much care for him. I also thought it was weird that random phrases were bolded?

[Argent he/him]

I definitely felt the same way but that may because I'm not really a fan of OSC, he writes good books but as a person I don't much care for him. I also thought it was weird that random phrases were bolded?

 

I feel similarly about him, so there could be that too... 

 

And the bolding was weird. I figured each bolded phrase was like a highlight, or a summary, of the paragraph (excerpt) around it. 

[Shaggai]

I definitely felt the same way but that may because I'm not really a fan of OSC, he writes good books but as a person I don't much care for him. I also thought it was weird that random phrases were bolded?

Yeah, I thought the bold text was weird too. It didn't seem to be for emphasis, because there was so much of it, but I can't really think of another reason to do that.

[HoidsRock]

My mother-in-law is an OSC fan in particular and a fantasy/sci-fi in general (30 years ago, I became the perfect man for her daughter when I mentioned that my favorite childhood book was The Witches of Karres).  She was the one who introduced my son and me to WOT and we have tried unsuccessfully to get her into SA--this in spite of the fact that she liked how BWS finished the series.  So I sent her the review because I think it is positive enough to get her to read.

 

That said, I agree with the comments made above.  I found the comments about making sure BWS has good notes in case he cannot finish the series rather patronizing.  Really?  The publisher responsible making WOT got finished and the author who pushed over the finish line are probably aware of this possibility.

[navybrandt he/him]

I'm sure that most of Brandon's fans like not only his writing but him as a person.  While I'm not a writer myself, I love his teaching attitude for aspiring authors.  I'm also sure he can take a bit of patronizing or criticism.  I don't know how well OSC knows Brandon, so he might just want to give him advice too.  That said, I also agree, "He's got it under control."

[Delightful]

I also found it was 

a) Extremely positive, but also very patronising, and I was feeling very defensive of Brandon and SA (How you know you're a Sanderfan!)

b ) The bolding was confusing.

 

Not sure I like that he gave away that Syl is honourspren, because that was a relatively minor but very cool reveal.

 

While I would also love to have more SA books sooner, Brandon is/was writing not just WoT but other short stories, novels and novellas at the same time as SA, plus he writes much faster than most other authors, so I really don't think it's exactly fair to complain about a long wait between books. Besides "maybe the author will die" just seems like a weird outlook to me. (There goes me being defensive... )That being said,

 

lyht, I hear you.  Please, Domi, Stormfather or whatever diety we need to petition, let nothing happen!    Besides which, it would be a real tragedy with all writing considerations aside.

Thank you for considering this.

 

Also, seeing as Brandon has his own personal Cosmere wiki, I don't think we have to worry either way. It is amusing that OSC is worrying about ten books when there are are like 25 books or so to come still, plus non-Cosmere books and short stories in between.

 

 

Does anyone else find it amusing that we're all reviewing a review, and then reviewing each other's review of the review? 

[Terisen he/him]

I guess I've read enough of his reviews that I kinda ignore the random bolding now.  I don't know if it's OSC that puts them in or an editor, since these reviews originally appear in a local paper called the Rhinoceros Times.

 

I also didn't find his statement about writing things down for someone to finish as patronizing.  As large as Brandon's projects are and as GOOD as the stories are, we definitely want to see how the stories play out.  Card isn't really different in that regard.  I mean, you never know what's going to happen tomorrow, next week, next month, next year, etc.  Hard to bring up such things in a tactful way, I guess.  Plus, Card himself is getting older, so he's probably more keenly aware of his own mortality and projecting that on to others.

 

And he's a bit of a curmudgeon anyway.  

 

 

Does anyone else find it amusing that we're all reviewing a review, and then reviewing each other's review of the review? 

 

This is what the internet does best though!  

[happyman he/him]

That's a really, really, really, really good review from OSC.  I stopped paying attention to him years ago, sometimes because of the content but usually because I didn't like how he presented it.  It's one thing to argue a point; it's another thing to demonize the opposition, and I found it wasn't improving my reaction to other people.  However, I think that he really gets what makes Brandon's writing good and it comes through loud and clear in this review.

 

As for the patronizing bit, well, I don't actually feel that way.  Robert Jordan kept lots of stuff private that would have been better off clearly marked, delimited, and outlined if someone else was to finish the story.  When he finally caved to his mortality and produced the notes he needed, it made a bit of a mess.  I think that it's perfectly good advice to give to give to Brandon, even if he never has to use it.

[Chrono she/her]

Yeah, felt that OSC was a bit patronizing. Brandon's got this under wraps, Orson. You don't need to worry.

 

However, giving credit where credit is due, it was a very positive review (which is practically worth a mountain of gold coming from him).

 

 

 

Does anyone else find it amusing that we're all reviewing a review, and then reviewing each other's review of the review? 

 

 

 

Inception! Quick everybody, get your totems! This is all a dream!

[Swimmingly he/him]

So you just reviewed the fact that someone reviewed us reviewing a review, then reviewing each other's reviews of the review?

[Delightful]

So you just reviewed the fact that someone reviewed us reviewing a review, then reviewing each other's reviews of the review?

I indeed just reviewed your review of a review someone reviewed in reviewing that we are all reviewing each others review of a review.

 

*gasps for breath*

[Argent he/him]

[Fifth of Daybreak he/him]

I guess my big problem with the review all comes right here:

Though I enjoyed the first volume of Wheel of Time, the pace of storytelling was so slow that I simply gave up. There is such a thing as too much show, not enough tell.

Ummm....ok? What does that have to do with SA at all? Now, I'm only up to The Shadow Rising, and I agree, the reading is very tedious at times, and in the beginning of the novels it borders on sheer drudgery, but that's the Wheel of Time, this is a different series entirely. I was actually talking to some people about Wheel of Time, and a few people said they gave up on it partway in, then picked up the books where Sanderson picked it up, and they said that it improved those problems vastly. (I can bold random phrases too!)

The problem I have is he's drawing this parallel between the two series (and ASOIAF as well) after having admitted to giving up on the series he's comparing it to! Now, is he only drawing this line because Sanderson had to finish the series for Jordan, and making that point, only because he's trying to caution Sanderson about possibility running into the same problem? All these points he's making are seemingly random, and really aren't about the Stormlight Archives themselves, but seem to be more along the lines of things he wanted to complain about.

There's nothing wrong with that, in itself, but on a post that you're listing as a review of a particular piece of literature, I don't want to read about problems that other books have, that don't directly relate to this one. OSC obviously has listened to both of the books, which is more than he can say for Wheel of Time, so why associate that sort of slow story telling with the Stormlight Archives? He doesn't directly state that, but the link is there, if only because of it being included in the review. It's completely extraneous and unnecessary, unless he felt that SA has that problem, which is completely ridiculous, in my opinion. The speed at which the story moves forward in SA is very compelling, and there's not nearly as much of the "let's recap the last book in the first couple hundred pages of the sequel" which is what I generally find annoying.

And then the lecture about writing things down because he's ambitious. I think that Brandon probably understands that fact a whole lot better than OSC does, I mean....he was the one who had to deal with that. I guess I just don't want a preamble that drones on about problems that could arise in the future when reading a book review, I would like to know what problems that book actually has.

Of course, it could be that I'm just still disgruntled over Shadows in Flight. It's been two years, and I'm still just so upset over the trite short excuse of a novel that was the conclusion to Bean's story. There is a such thing as too little show and too little tell...and too little plot...and too little characterization.

Edited July 13, 2014 by EMTrevor

[navybrandt he/him]

I guess my big problem with the review all comes right here:

Ummm....ok? What does that have to do with SA at all? Now, I'm only up to The Shadow Rising, and I agree, the reading is very tedious at times, and in the beginning of the novels it borders on sheer drudgery, but that's the Wheel of Time, this is a different series entirely. I was actually talking to some people about Wheel of Time, and a few people said they gave up on it partway in, then picked up the books where Sanderson picked it up, and they said that it improved those problems vastly. (I can bold random phrases too!)

The problem I have is he's drawing this parallel between the two series (and ASOIAF as well) after having admitted to giving up on the series he's comparing it to! Now, is he only drawing this line because Sanderson had to finish the series for Jordan, and making that point, only because he's trying to caution Sanderson about possibility running into the same problem? All these points he's making are seemingly random, and really aren't about the Stormlight Archives themselves, but seem to be more along the lines of things he wanted to complain about.

There's nothing wrong with that, in itself, but on a post that you're listing as a review of a particular piece of literature, I don't want to read about problems that other books have, that don't directly relate to this one. OSC obviously has listened to both of the books, which is more than he can say for Wheel of Time, so why associate that sort of slow story telling with the Stormlight Archives? He doesn't directly state that, but the link is there, if only because of it being included in the review. It's completely extraneous and unnecessary, unless he felt that SA has that problem, which is completely ridiculous, in my opinion. The speed at which the story moves forward in SA is very compelling, and there's not nearly as much of the "let's recap the last book in the first couple hundred pages of the sequel" which is what I generally find annoying.

And then the lecture about writing things down because he's ambitious. I think that Brandon probably understands that fact a whole lot better than OSC does, I mean....he was the one who had to deal with that. I guess I just don't want a preamble that drones on about problems that could arise in the future when reading a book review, I would like to know what problems that book actually has.

Of course, it could be that I'm just still disgruntled over Shadows in Flight. It's been two years, and I'm still just so upset over the trite short excuse of a novel that was the conclusion to Bean's story. There is a such thing as too little show and too little tell...and too little plot...and too little characterization.

Ummm... what more can be said after that?  You've hit the nail on the head!  Up-vote from me.

[NutiketAiel he/him]

That was a damned patronizing review.  I was cringing as I read it.