The Tragedy of the Three Shards

[Shaggai]

The Mistborn series introduced the concept of Shards - entities of godlike power, responsible for the magic systems in the Cosmere. Each Shard has an Intent, such as Preservation, Dominion, or Honor. They have vast power, and influence every aspect of the societies on their Shardworlds. Religion, morality, culture, and various other things tend to reflect the Shards of the world. But Shardic influence goes even further, affecting individual people and their actions. Free will is subverted to the Intents of the Shards. I believe that the Stormlight Archive will explore these themes in greater detail, showing the tragedy of the humans caught in a struggle between such vast powers. So far, there have been several characters affected by the Intent of the Rosharan Shards. In each case, it has caused serious problems for the affected characters. The level of influence varies between Shards, but in all cases it has been tragic.

 

Odium: Odium is the worst of the three. After taking stormform, Eshonai is changed from an honorable warrior, fighting to preserve her people, into an aggressive, arrogant servant of the Unmade and Odium. She has little autonomy left. She can make decisions, certainly, but she cannot choose what she wants to do. Her only choices are about how to bring about Odium's triumph.

Other characters seem to have been influenced by Odium as well. Sadeas, Moash, Kaladin, Adolin, and more are hateful to a degree (and in numbers) greater than might be expected in the absence of Odium. Odium's touch can be harsh and obvious, or subtle and insidious. 

 

Honor: For Honor, the obvious and direct case is Kaladin. He is forced to adhere to the strict commandments of a flawed and incomplete moral code, on pain of Syl's death. For him, there is no escape - he cannot choose to reject the morality that Honor has set out for him, nor can he change the Order to which he belongs. To do so would require him to murder Syl.

Another character who has been affected by Honor is Dalinar. Honor's influence on him has been more subtle, but has still been dangerous and restricting. Dalinar's honor meant that he refused to distrust Sadeas, despite Adolin's warnings. His trust in Sadeas led to the deaths of hundreds of his men.

 

Cultivation: Cultivation's influence is more subtle and less harmful than the other two. Cultivation is more a way of doing things, rather than an emotion like Odium or a concept like Honor. Therefore, Cultivation's influence allows for more freedom. However, Cultivation is still somewhat problematic. The major example of Cultivation's Intent affecting people people is Taravangian. Gifted with his fluctuating intelligence by the Nightwatcher (who is connected to Cultivation), he is cultivating the Rosharan situation in order to shape it to the benefit of humanity.

Taravangian is, in my opinion, probably the most tragic of the three. He is a compassionate man, who wishes only to do what is best for all. In order to ensure the survival of humanity, he is willing to kill thousands, no matter how much is torments him personally. However, his plan is flawed and, despite his beliefs, is not the best way to save humanity. He is doing everything he can for humanity, at great personal cost, but in the end he will inevitably fail.

 

In conclusion, I expect that the Stormlight Archive will take a deeper look at the effects of Shards and their Intents on the lives of the ordinary humans who are unfortunate enough to get caught in their struggles. The subtle yet powerful influence of the Intents results in the suppression of free will, to the detriment of all involved. I suspect that Odium will win in book 5, probably because of something to do with Honor. "So the night will reign, for the choice of honor is life..."

[TheOneKEA]

This is a fantastic post and provides the most direct and straightforward summation of what could be one of the main themes of the Stormlight Archive.

[Shaggai]

This is a fantastic post and provides the most direct and straightforward summation of what could be one of the main themes of the Stormlight Archive.

Why thank you.

[Arondell]

 

Honor: For Honor, the obvious and direct case is Kaladin. He is forced to adhere to the strict commandments of a flawed and incomplete moral code, on pain of Syl's death. For him, there is no escape - he cannot choose to reject the morality that Honor has set out for him, nor can he change the Order to which he belongs. To do so would require him to murder Syl.

Another character who has been affected by Honor is Dalinar. Honor's influence on him has been more subtle, but has still been dangerous and restricting. Dalinar's honor meant that he refused to distrust Sadeas, despite Adolin's warnings. His trust in Sadeas led to the deaths of hundreds of his men.

 

I think your being a tad harsh on honor.  When Kaladin almost killed Sylphrena it was under circumstances in which he had decided to abandon his oaths. His bond to Sylphrena was already fading and if a life threatening event had not occurred I have the distinct impression that the bond and Kaladin's abilities would have simply dissipated.  Early on in Way of Kings Syl explicitly tells him he can choose to break the bond.

 

 

“I’m willing to stop it, if you want,” she said. “But I would go back to being as I was before. That scares me. Floating on the wind, never remembering anything for longer than a few minutes. It’s because of this tie between us that I can think again, that I can remember what and who I am. If we end it, I lose that.”

Sanderson, Brandon (2010-08-31). The Way of Kings (The Stormlight Archive) (p. 808). Macmillan. Kindle Edition.

 

Honor isn't about forcing people to do things.  Syl makes that point shortly before the bridge collapses.

 

 

“I don’t want to force you to do anything. You have to do what you think is right.”

Sanderson, Brandon (2014-03-04). Words of Radiance (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 805). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.

 

Also Dalinar didn't trust Sadeas simply because of his own sense of honor.  He trusted Sadeas because he misunderstood the intention of something the Alimighty(Honor) said to him in one of his visions.  Up until that point he honestly wasn't sure whether he should trust Sadeas.   Of course he later realizes his error in the last vision in The Way of Kings.

 

 

“You can’t hear me, can you?” Dalinar asked, feeling a horror as he finally began to understand. “You never could.” Blood of my fathers… he’s not ignoring me. He can’t see me! He doesn’t speak in riddles. It just seems that way because I took his responses as cryptic answers to my questions. He didn’t tell me to trust Sadeas. I… I just assumed… Everything seemed to shake around Dalinar. His preconceptions,

Sanderson, Brandon (2010-08-31). The Way of Kings (The Stormlight Archive) (p. 995). Macmillan. Kindle Edition.

 

That being said I do agree that the shardic intents in isolation do have flaws.  Syl's inability to answer questions regarding certain ethical issues is an example of this.

[Moogle]

Honor isn't about forcing people to do things.  Syl makes that point shortly before the bridge collapses.

 

But this is the point Shaggai was making. Kaladin isn't being forced, but he sure is being influenced. If he cuts off the bond, suddenly he kills Syl. Not to claim Syl is doing this, but there's a clear parallel to something like a suicidal boyfriend/girlfriend threatening to commit suicide if you break up. Syl even says "if you break the bond, I go back to being dumb". This is not a situation where Kaladin is free to do whatever he feels is right, despite Syl's protests to the contrary. It's enough to make me uncomfortable.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Moogle

[Terisen he/him]

But this is the point Shaggai was making. Kaladin isn't being forced, but he sure is being influenced. If he cuts off the bond, suddenly he kills Syl. Not to claim Syl is doing this, but there's a clear parallel to something like a suicidal boyfriend/girlfriend threatening to commit suicide if you break up. Syl even says "if you break the bond, I go back to being dumb". This is not a situation where Kaladin is free to do whatever he feels is right, despite Syl's protests to the contrary. It's enough to make me uncomfortable.

 

I don't know if I see it as a suicidal boyfriend/girlfriend thing, necessarily.  The whole concept of Honor is really strong in Asian cultures and we already have Brandon saying that he's done some stuff with the Alethi culture based on Korea.  Not that hard to say that the notion of Honor on the whole planet has Oriental influences.  

 

For instance, take the concept of seppuku in Japan.  Honor was such an important concept that it was better to die with honor this way rather than die some other way, like at the hands of an enemy.  Breaking your oaths to your lord, for example, was something very grave and death (albeit, for the betrayer of the oaths) was common for the samurai.  Here, we can consider them as oriental "knights".

 

I know it's a tad different with the Surgebinders as they themselves don't necessarily die, but I think the linkage of death with honor is built-in to the overall concept of honor, especially if we consider influences on the world.

[Fifth of Daybreak he/him]

I don't know if I see it as a suicidal boyfriend/girlfriend thing, necessarily.  The whole concept of Honor is really strong in Asian cultures and we already have Brandon saying that he's done some stuff with the Alethi culture based on Korea.  Not that hard to say that the notion of Honor on the whole planet has Oriental influences.  

 

For instance, take the concept of seppuku in Japan.  Honor was such an important concept that it was better to die with honor this way rather than die some other way, like at the hands of an enemy.  Breaking your oaths to your lord, for example, was something very grave and death (albeit, for the betrayer of the oaths) was common for the samurai.  Here, we can consider them as oriental "knights".

 

I know it's a tad different with the Surgebinders as they themselves don't necessarily die, but I think the linkage of death with honor is built-in to the overall concept of honor, especially if we consider influences on the world.

 

Those situations aren't all that different either from the suicidal significant other though. The outside influences to honor are still there, whether from family or from society. A certain morality is being placed on Kaladin, one that he doesn't entirely agree with, but has to follow to protect Syl. People change over time, and Kaladin's decision about Elhokar probably woulnd't have changed in time if it wasn't for the loss of Syl. Regardless of where the inspiration of it comes from. Kaladin also wasn't raised with those values ingrained to him as much as they could've been, and they certainly aren't ingrained into the society as much as in feudal Asia (Alethi like to backstab way too much for honor to be that prevalent in society.)

[Necromancer he/him]

Great post, but I think it's safe to say that Szeth should be the face of suffering for Honor, not Kaladin. Szeth literally made himself a madman because of his sense of honor.

[Shaggai]

Great post, but I think it's safe to say that Szeth should be the face of suffering for Honor, not Kaladin. Szeth literally made himself a madman because of his sense of honor.

Szeth is another good example, and probably would have been better than Dalinar, but there's no outside force compelling him to follow his honor. Honor's influence is definitely present, but not to the same extent as with Kaladin.

[Arondell]

Szeth is another good example, and probably would have been better than Dalinar, but there's no outside force compelling him to follow his honor. Honor's influence is definitely present, but not to the same extent as with Kaladin.

 

I'm not sure where the reference is but wasn't it mentioned at some point that Szeth believes he will face a severe spiritual penalty if he breaks his truthless restrictions?  Something about his soul facing oblivion or some such?  He isn't technically being forced to do all those murders but if he honestly believes he is facing oblivion if he refuses that is a pretty strong "influence".

[Shaggai]

I'm not sure where the reference is but wasn't it mentioned at some point that Szeth believes he will face a severe spiritual penalty if he breaks his truthless restrictions?  Something about his soul facing oblivion or some such?  He isn't technically being forced to do all those murders but if he honestly believes he is facing oblivion if he refuses that is a pretty strong "influence".

The supposed oblivion does not appear to be one of his major motives. He's following the whole Truthless thing out of his own sense of honor, not fear of oblivion. Certainly threats would be an influence, but not as much as Kaladin.

[Necromancer he/him]

The supposed oblivion does not appear to be one of his major motives. He's following the whole Truthless thing out of his own sense of honor, not fear of oblivion. Certainly threats would be an influence, but not as much as Kaladin.

 

Perhaps his great sense of honor stems from the fact that he doesn't want to face oblivion. Kind of like how some religious people are loving or kind because they can't afford not to be. 

[Shaggai]

Perhaps his great sense of honor stems from the fact that he doesn't want to face oblivion. Kind of like how some religious people are loving or kind because they can't afford not to be. 

If he was following his honor out of fear, I doubt that Nalan would have been so interested in him.

[Patrick Star]

Here's what I'm expecting:

 

[Captain Cosmere]

Free will does not grant one the option of determining which choices are available.  Of course the shards have influence over people.  So do you and so do I.  But Kaladin chose to live his life in such a way that enabled him to form a bond Sylphrena (which she also chose, don't forget).  The fact that he was ignorant of the outcome and ramifications of his choice is irrelevant.  He had choices.  He has choices.  He will have choices.  Every choice has a consequence.  That's life.  But regardless of consequence, his will remains his own. 

Edited July 1, 2014 by Captain Cosmere

[Shaggai]

Free will does not grant one the option of determining which choices are available.  Of course the shards have influence over people.  So do you and so do I.  But Kaladin chose to live his life in such a way that enabled him to form a bond Sylphrena (which she also chose, don't forget).  The fact that he was ignorant of the outcome and ramifications of his choice is irrelevant.  He had choices.  He has choices.  He will have choices.  Every choice has a consequence.  That's life.  But regardless of consequence, his will remains his own. 

I'm not sure I see your point. Could you rephrase that?

[Araris Valerian he/him]

I think this is a great way of looking at the various shardic influences on Roshar, but I think that Kaladin and Syl represent a conflict between Honor and Odium, where Kaladin was letting his hate for petty lighteyes overpower the attributes that attracted Syl initially. Kaladin doesn't immediately decide when Syl leaves that he is wrong, instead he has to make a connection between Elhokar and Tien.

[Horatio Spifflewicket]

It makes you wonder, then, in what places Hatred will come in between the other new Radiants and their oaths?

 

Because if the conflicts of men are really analogues for the shardic conflicts, then we should see other places where Odium and Honor (And/or Cultivation) face off.

 

With Kaladin, it was obvious (in hindsight).  There have been hints, Shallan hates Amaram for the perceived murder of her brother.  Will her refusal to see some sort of truth because of that hatred come between herself and Pattern?  Will Dalinar's hatred of... brussels sprouts (can you tell I'm fishing?) cause him to try to segregate instead of uniting?  Does Renarin (must tread lightly here, or risk the wrath of Feather) hate himself because of the VERY INGRAINED CULTURAL TABOO ON SEEING THE FUTURE and have that come between himself and Glys?

 

What about Lift, or other future radiants.

 

Szeth, I leave out, because I see him as a member of "People following a broken radiant anonymous" rather than as a true Skybreaker.

[king of nowhere]

I think there's a good point to raise here, something I believe captain cosmere was addressing himself.

Namely, how much being influenced counts as losing free will?

I mean, we are all influenced all the time, by the constraints of the physical world, by our own ideals, by the boundaries of society,  by the actions of other people. yet we say that we have free will. if someone orders us at gunpoint, we say instead that we are not acting in free will, even if we could actually decide to disobey and get shot. So what's the actual definition of free will? what count as such?

Take kaladin. yes, if he chooses to break some oaths, syl will die. so there is a strong influence in him. Also, if he chooses to break is oaths, some people who were counting on him will be let down, some people may die, other may likely not die as a result of the former people being dead. Why syl's death is so special and not just one of many consequences of the actions he can choose?

And how much is dalinar influencced by honor, and how much he is honorable himself? is he losing his free will for it? breeze would love to argue against it; it's proably no more powerful an influence than a small soothing. which is no more powerful an influence than a charismaticc person just convincing us with mundane means.

I personally don't see the conflict of the shards as causing people to lose their free will (except for odium's control over eshonai). it however forces people to make choices in determinate situations that would not have arosen without shards.

[soulcastJam he/him]

Wow.  I agree this is harsh to Honor, and suggests that people really don't like the idea of having to live up to the promises they make.  Of course there are negative consequences for breaking oaths, and the consequences are proportional to the power granted from or inherent to the oaths made.  This applies to all oaths, and I would submit that oaths broken without pain are oaths that had very little commitment to begin with.  Marriage is the easiest example to validate this idea.

[Shaggai]

Wow.  I agree this is harsh to Honor, and suggests that people really don't like the idea of having to live up to the promises they make.  Of course there are negative consequences for breaking oaths, and the consequences are proportional to the power granted from or inherent to the oaths made.  This applies to all oaths, and I would submit that oaths broken without pain are oaths that had very little commitment to begin with.  Marriage is the easiest example to validate this idea.

Generally, one's spouse does not die if one gets a divorce. If that happened regularly, I think marriage would be a vastly different institution.

[Swimmingly he/him]

Til death do us part...one way or another.

[soulcastJam he/him]

Generally, one's spouse does not die if one gets a divorce. If that happened regularly, I think marriage would be a vastly different institution.

True, but I haven't started glowing yet either.

[Shaggai]

True, but I haven't started glowing yet either.

Just because you glow doesn't mean that it's okay to do bad things to you.

[Chrono she/her]

I feel like with Kaladin's situation, the reason Syl died was not because he subscribed to a faulty idea of honor and chose to broke that. Syl represents his choice to protect and lead people. She formed the bond with him because of his instincts to protect and lead, not because she just randomly showed up and ordered Kaladin to lead and protect. Kaladin killed Syl because he was going against his own personal moral code: he was doing something that his instincts thought was wrong, even though he didn't consciously realize it at the time. It's similar to getting into a heated argument with a friend and saying something terribly rude to them without thinking. You know it is wrong as an abstract concept. However, you still do it anyway because you're caught up in emotion. I feel this is how Kaladin broke the bond. He did something he knew was wrong -- choosing to assassinate the king -- because he was caught up in emotion. 

 

You may argue that Kaladin is being forced to be good. However, I see it more as him betraying himself, sinking to a lower position in order to get petty vengeance for himself. Syl is a physical representation of his ideals to protect and lead. When he stops protecting and leading, she dies. Honor didn't kill her. Kaladin killed her himself, out of a very selfish and hateful need to get revenge. I think you're taking Kaladin's responsibility of killing Syl away from him and giving it to Honor.  Yes, the effects were devastating and he lost his Radiant powers, but that was his fault. He regains Syl and the powers when he is once again true to himself and stops degenerating.