theory Ba-Ado-Mishram Connected Herself to the Nahel Bond on Roshar

[Duxredux he/him]

Here's the theory. BAM specifically Connected herself to the power of the Nahel Bond on Roshar, and I think a lot of problems are caused by an asymmetrical breaking of the Bond. Perhaps the bond is now slightly too strong and unregulated. Elantris spoiler:

Spoiler

Something similar to Elantris being disrupted by the Reod, causing the fallen Elantrians and only the Seon's bonded to them.

Here's some things we know or highly suspect:

When a Radiant dies, their spren does not become a Deadeyes, that only happens if the Radiant forsakes their Oaths.  When this happens, the spren gets a more permanent tie to the PR, either they manifest as a Shardblade or they are dismissed while bonded to a Shardbearer. The deeper the bond, presumably the more damaged the Deadeye.

BAM gained new abilities that allowed her to grant forms of power to the ancient Singers, possibly as a copy of Ishar's Knights Radiant. Singer forms by their very nature are spren bonds, Nahel bonds. Presumably when BAM was imprisoned, the Singers became Parshmen, unable to form bonds with spren to gain forms and they lost their minds in the process. Voidspren, particularly Ulim seem to have far, far more mental stability in the PR than they ought to, considering Ulim was able to leave Venli's gemheart with no negative consequences to his mind.

There is an imbalance here. Not a new idea, but I agree with the idea that at the imprisonment of BAM, the Singers with forms of power, basically all of them except the Listeners, lost a portion of their Cognitive selves to the Voidspren that inhabited their hearts. This provided an anchor to the Voidspren in the PR, allowing them to retain their minds even when in the PR. This widespread rending of the fabric of Roshar's nature may have kicked off the decisions that lead to the Recreance, though 17 Sharders who track the history would need to check that. At the Recreance, by a similar mechanism the spren became Deadeyes, a portion of their mind trapped in the other realm. Just as a Deadeye can forcibly be Connected to a Shardbearer by application of Stormlight, perhaps the Everstorm on the first pass forcibly Connected the Parshmen to the CR and restored their ability to form bonds with Voidlight. This allowed the Fused to be more directly reborn in their bodies with the Everstorm. The restoration of their minds may have been a side effect, though Odium is likely better served by thinking, passionate Singers.

Why did the Parshmen still have their lost minds after generations? Perhaps the mostly severed bond that kept the Voidspren sapient was passed down generation to generation. Nahel bonds can be passed.

Spoiler

the_archduke (paraphrased)

Could a Knight Radiant pass their Nahel bond the way seons can be passed in Elantris?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Theoretically possible and in fact has happened in previous eras.

Firefight Phoenix signing (Jan. 21, 2015)

I also wonder if a Deadeye Enlightened by Sja-anat would have their mind restored with the Everstorm.

Thoughts? I wrote this late at night, and needed to get it out of my head.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Duxredux
clarity

[alder24]

11 hours ago, Duxredux said:

Here's the theory. BAM specifically Connected herself to the power of the Nahel Bond on Roshar, and I think a lot of problems are caused by an asymmetrical breaking of the Bond.

The Nahel Bond is a connection. How does one connect themself to another connection? And what about the Sibling? They weren't connected by Nahel Bond yet were still heavily affected and wounded by Recreance.

11 hours ago, Duxredux said:

BAM gained new abilities that allowed her to grant forms of power to the ancient Singers, possibly as a copy of Ishar's Knights Radiant. Singer forms by their very nature are spren bonds, Nahel bonds

Yes, BAM formed a Nahel Bond, one to many, not one to one like in most cases. Nahel Bond is a bond between spren and a person or animal, it doesn't just give Radiant powers:

Spoiler

Tom Goldthwait

At any point in the Rosharan history, was it possible to form a Nahel bond without swearing oaths?

Brandon Sanderson

"Nahel bond" is the phrase used for a bond between a spren and a being from the Physical Realm. That is the definition of it. So the answer to that is yes; it's currently possible right now. It's how greatshells exist and grow to the size they do. It's how Ryshadium exist. Those are Nahel bonds also.

What you're asking is if a sapient spren, a spren and a sapient individual, forming what we currently call the Radiant bond, which has access to much greater power; was that possible without swearing oaths? Yes and no. The formalization of the oaths and the Orders aligned with certain spren did take a little bit of time to come together. It was possible to form a Nahel bond before that, but it was not a Radiant bond accessing the levels of powers that are currently possible. So it's another one of these "yes and no" answers, if that makes any sense.

You could find a Nahel bond... In fact, many would call the bond between the singers and the spren that give them forms Nahel bonds. It may not fit fully into the categorization that most people would use it for, but you could kinda call that the same thing.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 1 (Dec. 17, 2020)

 

11 hours ago, Duxredux said:

Voidspren, particularly Ulim seem to have far, far more mental stability in the PR than they ought to, considering Ulim was able to leave Venli's gemheart with no negative consequences to his mind.

He wasn't bonded with Venli, at least I don't think they formed a Nahel Bond. Most Voidspren seem to not require a Nahel Bond to remain aware in PR, like guiding Voidspren Kaladin met in OB.

11 hours ago, Duxredux said:

There is an imbalance here. Not a new idea, but I agree with the idea that at the imprisonment of BAM, the Singers with forms of power, basically all of them except the Listeners, lost a portion of their Cognitive selves to the Voidspren that inhabited their hearts.

There were no Voidspren during the False Desolation, all of them were stuck on Braize. Mishram herself provided all Singers with forms of Power, because she bonded them all. OB ch 80 epigraph:

Quote

"Ba-Ado-Mishram has somehow Connected with the parsh people, as Odium once did. She provides Voidlight and facilitates forms of power. Our strike team is going to imprison her."

 

11 hours ago, Duxredux said:

This widespread rending of the fabric of Roshar's nature may have kicked off the decisions that lead to the Recreance, though 17 Sharders who track the history would need to check that.

Indirectly? Mishram connected herself to Parsh, giving them forms of power, Radiants trapped her, realizing what a terrible mistake they had made, and abandoned their oaths.

11 hours ago, Duxredux said:

At the Recreance, by a similar mechanism the spren became Deadeyes, a portion of their mind trapped in the other realm.

Yes, but that's because Mishram connected herself to more than just Singers, she was essentially connected to Roshar, as by the Sibling's words "all who belong to Roshar were hurt". There is something missing in Spren soul, something was ripped off when Mishram was trapped.

Breaking of bonds likely rips off a part of spren's soul in process, combining that with the damage done by imprisonment of Mishram it might just tip the scale leaving them mindless. But it's likely those two are very connected somehow. 

Elantris spoiler WoB:

Spoiler

Jerich

Is the Hoed from Elantris similar to the state of [dead] Shardblades? If so is it possible to awaken a Shardblade if the bearer speaks the oaths of the Knights Radiant?

Brandon Sanderson

The status is... I would say not as similar as you're probably thinking, but it does have a similarity in that two bacteria causing a disease are both caused by a bacteria, so there is a similarity there.

I can imagine a sequence where a Shardblade would be reawakened, but I think it would be very difficult.

It's not the same that they're in the middle of a transition, like in Elantris.

Jerich

Oh, okay. So you have to actually... it'd be harder.

Brandon Sanderson

It'd be harder, yeah. It's not the same, they're not in the middle of a transition. They have had something ripped from them, and it's very painful and it's left them mostly mindless.

Jerich

So they have to have that something added back?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. So what you've got going on: the spren gain-- the bond lets them have sentience in the physical plane, like they can think and all these things, and when that was ripped away from them-- imagine... (this is a very bad metaphor, it's the first one coming to my head though): imagine you had wetware, you had a head-jack or something like that, and someone just ripped it out of your head. 

Jerich

*stunned/horrified*

Oh.

Brandon Sanderson

Instead of surgically operating it out. Like that's what's happened, a piece of their soul's been ripped off.

Words of Radiance Seattle signing (March 8, 2014)

 

11 hours ago, Duxredux said:

Just as a Deadeye can forcibly be Connected to a Shardbearer by application of Stormlight, perhaps the Everstorm on the first pass forcibly Connected the Parshmen to the CR and restored their ability to form bonds with Voidlight.

I think in the case of Everstorm it's permanent, it restored their Identity and Connection, healed them, and patched their souls.

11 hours ago, Duxredux said:

I also wonder if a Deadeye Enlightened by Sja-anat would have their mind restored with the Everstorm.

I think that's a very likely possibility.

 

I don't know what to think about it. There are some good points, but I don't think Mishram formed a connection to connection, like you proposed. She did connect herself, by Nahel Bond, to Singers, she could connected herself to whole Roshar (in a similar way Shards are connected to Roshar, and their pure tones are part of it), to which everyone is connected, and her imprisonment ripped that connection away from Roshar, taking part of Rosharan spirit web with her, leaving it to a huge hole.

Elantris spoiler:

Spoiler

just like the chasm change geography and disturbed Elantrians connection to the Dor

In a similar way, there is a massive hole in Rosharan spirit web, to which everyone is connected, and that hole created a problems for sprens, or maybe something was ripped away from their souls as well.

In the case of Singers, they were directly connected to Mishram, all of them. Her capture ripped off that connection from Singers, taking away the very part of their soul responsible for forming a Nahel Bond. But there is more to it, as a Dullform is a sprenless form, Singers had to be also able to pass that down generations - this also had to rip off their Identity, preventing them from knowing what is wrong with them, taking some parts of their sDNA, which made it "genetically" transmissible. It's like their spiritual Ideal was wounded as well.

Radiants breaking the bond with their spren did similar damage to them, it ripped of part of their spirit web, and left a hole in there. Why? I don't know. Mishram is to blame.

I don't know how that could work. I have no brain for that. I'm writing this whole stormingly long post for the second time, because I clicked ctrl+z at the very end of the last attempt and it deleted everything...

[Argenti he/him]

8 hours ago, alder24 said:

I don't know what to think about it. There are some good points, but I don't think Mishram formed a connection to connection, like you proposed. She did connect herself, by Nahel Bond, to Singers, she could connected herself to whole Roshar (in a similar way Shards are connected to Roshar, and their pure tones are part of it), to which everyone is connected, and her imprisonment ripped that connection away from Roshar, taking part of Rosharan spirit web with her, leaving it to a huge hole.

 

I'm of the camp that pre-unmaking, BAM was the spren of Roshar, and was around pre-shattering. 

 

8 hours ago, alder24 said:

Radiants breaking the bond with their spren did similar damage to them, it ripped of part of their spirit web, and left a hole in there. Why? I don't know. Mishram is to blame.

 

If my theory is true, since the spren are of Roshar, and BAM is Roshar, losing BAM's connection "untethers" spren and just kinda destroys them.

[alder24]

9 hours ago, Argenti said:

I'm of the camp that pre-unmaking, BAM was the spren of Roshar, and was around pre-shattering. 

 

If my theory is true, since the spren are of Roshar, and BAM is Roshar, losing BAM's connection "untethers" spren and just kinda destroys them.

There were no sapient spren on Roshar pre-Shattering:

Spoiler

Questioner

Do the spren that we know of as the Cryptics exist before Honor and Cultivation came to Roshar?

Brandon Sanderson

Ah, good question! No. Cryptics would be one of the forms of spren that were a later creation. Creation is the wrong term, but yeah. 

Billy Todd, Moderator

Later development? Evolution?

Brandon Sanderson

All of the sapient spren are later developments. 

Billy Todd, Moderator

Are they evolved from the earlier spren?

Brandon

Evolution doesn't work the same way on the spren, right? The spren were created more than evolved, I would say.

Billy Todd, Moderator

Maybe cultivated?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, cultivated. *laughter*

JordanCon 2018 (April 21, 2018)

But it doesn't mean that pre-BAM spren could live there in a non sapient state and later was "cultivated" and developed sapience. However Unmaking is like a death for spren, it kills them, changes them, it's very likely that most connections Unmade used to have were lost during unmaking. 

[Argenti he/him]

3 hours ago, alder24 said:

There were no sapient spren on Roshar pre-Shattering:

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

Do the spren that we know of as the Cryptics exist before Honor and Cultivation came to Roshar?

Brandon Sanderson

Ah, good question! No. Cryptics would be one of the forms of spren that were a later creation. Creation is the wrong term, but yeah. 

Billy Todd, Moderator

Later development? Evolution?

Brandon Sanderson

All of the sapient spren are later developments. 

Billy Todd, Moderator

Are they evolved from the earlier spren?

Brandon

Evolution doesn't work the same way on the spren, right? The spren were created more than evolved, I would say.

Billy Todd, Moderator

Maybe cultivated?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, cultivated. *laughter*

JordanCon 2018 (April 21, 2018)

But it doesn't mean that pre-BAM spren could live there in a non sapient state and later was "cultivated" and developed sapience. However Unmaking is like a death for spren, it kills them, changes them, it's very likely that most connections Unmade used to have were lost during unmaking. 

I meant in a way like the Stormfather, not as cognized, but just the uncaring world. Also connections don't get lost during enlightening, and unmaking and enlightenment presumably act similar.

[JohnnyKaizen he/him]

The thing that popped out in my head after reading the premise was, "Did the Singers become deadeyes (the Singer/PR version of deadeyes anyway) when BAM was imprisoned?"

I have never framed it that way in my head before and now my brain is slightly exploding trying to understand the ramifications of that.

Edited May 26, 2023 by JohnnyKaizen

[alder24]

31 minutes ago, Argenti said:

Also connections don't get lost during enlightening, and unmaking and enlightenment presumably act similar.

With this I disagree. From Coppermind:

Unmaking uses the Surge of Transformation. The Sibling considers being unmade into something else as equivalent to death. Sja-anat believes Odium could unmake the Unmade again. This would steal their memories and rip them to pieces. She also fears he will unmake her children, both true spren and lesser spren, to the same effect. 

22 minutes ago, JohnnyKaizen said:

The thing that popped out in my head after reading the premise was, "Did the Singers become deadeyes (the Singer/PR version of deadeyes anyway) when BAM was imprisoned?

I have never framed it that way in my head before and now my brain is slightly exploding trying to understand the ramifications of that.

Yes, kind of, a living version of Deadeyes. Their mind is lost, there is something missing in their soul.

[Argenti he/him]

56 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Unmaking uses the Surge of Transformation. The Sibling considers being unmade into something else as equivalent to death. Sja-anat believes Odium could unmake the Unmade again. This would steal their memories and rip them to pieces. She also fears he will unmake her children, both true spren and lesser spren, to the same effect. 

Both replace or add Odium's investiture to a spren. They are both corrupt investitures and make the signature red look. Sja-anat is more subtly than the average user of Transformation, as this is all she does, and she's been around for a very long time. You can also unmake someone without Unmaking them; Unmake also means ruin or destroy, not just the Sanderson term.

[alder24]

17 minutes ago, Argenti said:

Both replace or add Odium's investiture to a spren. They are both corrupt investitures and make the signature red look. Sja-anat is more subtly than the average user of Transformation, as this is all she does, and she's been around for a very long time. You can also unmake someone without Unmaking them; Unmake also means ruin or destroy, not just the Sanderson term.

Sja-anat is not looking red at all. Sja-anat isn't destroying spren, she is enlightening them. We don't even know if enlightened spren lose their memories. For me this is not the same.

[Argenti he/him]

2 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Sja-anat is not looking red at all.

Glys is red.

[alder24]

Just now, Argenti said:

Glys is red.

But she as an Unmade is not red. There is nothing red in her. Enlightened spren are red, but she as an Unmade is not. She might not be corrupted at all. Re-Shephir is black, no red there as well. Ashertmarn is a black heart, no red here either. Only Thrill is red.

[Argenti he/him]

1 minute ago, alder24 said:

But she as an Unmade is not red. There is nothing red in her. Enlightened spren are red, but she as an Unmade is not. She might not be corrupted at all. Re-Shephir is black, no red there as well. Ashertmarn is a black heart, no red here either. Only Thrill is red.

Raboniel was corrupting the sibling, and the sibling says she is Unmaking them (Does the sibling have a gender?), thus they can be assumed to be the same.

[alder24]

13 minutes ago, Argenti said:

Raboniel was corrupting the sibling, and the sibling says she is Unmaking them (Does the sibling have a gender?), thus they can be assumed to be the same.

No it's not as Raboniel has a surge of Transformation, and Odium was the one previously unmaking spren. We don't know how enlightening works, if Voidlight is even involved. 

That's pointless to argue like that. Both of us. We simply lack information to say if this is similar or not.

[Argenti he/him]

29 minutes ago, alder24 said:

We don't know how enlightening works, if Voidlight is even involved. 

While I don't have oathbringer, the coppermind claims that enlightend spren "carry the taint of Odium" and that "Sja-anat is capable of corrupting spren with Odium's Investiture."

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Argenti said:

While I don't have oathbringer, the coppermind claims that enlightend spren "carry the taint of Odium" and that "Sja-anat is capable of corrupting spren with Odium's Investiture."

Yes, but what does it mean in practice? How many percent of Odium's investiture enlightened spren have compared to an Unmade? Can Sja-anat access Voidlight? Does she enlight with the use of Voidlight? Unmades seem to be made primarily out of Odium's investiture, they're Odium's Splinters after all, while enlightened spren are capable of Radiant bond, which suggest there is a lot of Honor and Cultivation's investiture in them still. Enlightening is done after a consent by a spren is given, while unmaking doesn't care about it. Unmaking essentially kills spren (words of the Sibling), while enlightened spren doesn't seem to be "killed" in that way. Sja-anat also said that Odium can unmade her enlightened spren and he can unmade Unmades, which would steal their memories and rip them to pieces. Enlightened spren don't look "ripped to pieces" if you asked me.

As I said, this is pointless. There are only unknowns, we know nothing concrete and we simply can't draw any conclusions yet.

[Argenti he/him]

4 hours ago, alder24 said:

As I said, this is pointless. There are only unknowns, we know nothing concrete and we simply can't draw any conclusions yet.

Fair point.

 

[Duxredux he/him]

On 5/25/2023 at 11:01 AM, alder24 said:

The Nahel Bond is a connection. How does one connect themself to another connection? And what about the Sibling? They weren't connected by Nahel Bond yet were still heavily affected and wounded by Recreance.

I'm not sure. How were the Surges, including Connection (Adhesion), bound to the Knights Radiant? How were the knights as they are laid out in symmetry with the 10 different surges formed without specific and intentional design? I guess it's possible, but I doubt that the spren just naturally and symmetrically granted power over the surges to those they bonded to with the Nahel bond.

Quote

"Ba-Ado-Mishram has somehow Connected with the parsh people, as Odium once did. She provides Voidlight and facilitates forms of power. Our strike team is going to imprison her."

I was looking at this one before posting my idea actually. I wouldn't take this one as face value, since this is a pre-mission record of one of Urithiru's Knights, right? I would totally believe that anyone other than a Bondsmith or Herald sent to imprison BAM might not understand the full implications of what was happening or get the full briefing before going on the mission.

I think there's something specific Connecting BAM and the Nahel Bond, or maybe the Nahel Spren based on these epigraphs from RoW, from Kelek:

Quote

"Nevertheless, I’m writing answers for you here, because something glimmers deep within me. A fragment of a memory of what I once was.

I was there when Ba-Ado-Mishram was captured. I know the truth of the Radiants, the Recreance, and the Nahel spren."

"I tell you; I write it. You must release the captive Unmade. She will not fade as I will. If you leave her as she is, she will remain imprisoned for eternity."

"As one who has suffered for so many centuries … as one whom it broke … please find Mishram and release her. Not just for her own good. For the good of all spren.

For I believe that in confining her, we have caused a greater wound to Roshar than any ever realized."

We know that the Fused, at least Raboniel, consider Adhesion to be a false Surge offered by Honor. Presumably this implies that they generally don't have access to Connection, yet how was BAM Connected in any measure to the Parsh?

As for the Sibling, perhaps the Nahel spren as it works with the Knights Radiant is a bond of Honor. Perhaps that was what was specifically lost when she says that she lost the ability to hear her father's tone - maybe she would have become a Deadeyes had she not had Cultivation's tone to draw on. Perhaps Navani's method of restoring the Sibling's ability to hear Honor's tone would help Deadeyes in some way. Storytelling-wise, there's plenty of Chekhov's Guns laying around here for this. As for the Stormfather, perhaps as the remaining holder of Honor's power and the remnants of Tanavast's soul, he was a source of that power and Tone and was not appreciably affected.

Assuming that this mechanism of a too-powerful Nahel bond is accurate for theory-crafting purposes, I would guess the Parsh transition to Dullform didn't happen in a single world shaking event at the binding of BAM. Instead it may have happened the very next time they tried to change forms  - and their ability to Connect was ripped away (along with their ability to hear rhythms) and left with the spren that had facilitated their form of power. Perhaps it happened with the very next Highstorm as some tried to change forms. Not sure if that's the Voidspren anymore, but presumably the forms of power are more militant forms. If they tried changing to say, mateform during a Highstorm to allow their species to persist, the too powerful or unregulated Nahel Bond, specifically given by the form of power, broke the Parsh. To know if this is accurate, I'd have to check if any of the Listeners tried to change from a form of power back to one of the normal forms, but I don't think the mind-altering nature of Stormform allowed any of them to do that before the Everstorm came. In essence, perhaps the Parsh had the same restriction that the Knights Radiant had at the Recreance, where once bonded to a spren only by a very careful process could they safely annul the bond and withdraw without becoming a deadeye. If there was an abrupt or forcible separation of the bonded, while both were alive, then the bond broke one side's ability to Connect.

At any rate, @alder24, thanks, you filled in some of the stuff that I didn't get around to posting (like dullform), and stuff that I didn't remember. Sometimes writing these long posts on a phone is really obnoxious, and finding references is a pain. I acknowledge there's a lot of stuff that would have to be filled in, and I don't have anywhere close to the references that some of the other theories like "Chanarach was the one who broke", but the core idea is that whatever portion of the spiritweb that Connections, well, connect to, particularly the Nahel Bond, is specifically what is missing from the Deadeyes and the dullform parsh. There seems to specifically be issues when that Nahel bond is broken when both parties are alive. Whether BAM is Connected to the bond itself or did some crazy Elantris level or Rosharan scale Connection, that specifically seems to be what was missing from both. Maybe this isn't enough new material compared to all of the other theories, but the mental leap was that the Recreance and Parshendi dullforms all seemed to be an issue with that bond specifically, and that dead Shardblades were left with an incomplete and forced Connection to the PR. It's tenuous, but I hope it at least got people thinking in new directions, even if it ultimately isn't correct.

Edited May 28, 2023 by Duxredux
finished incomplete sentence.

[alder24]

49 minutes ago, Duxredux said:

I'm not sure. How were the Surges, including Connection (Adhesion), bound to the Knights Radiant? How were the knights as they are laid out in symmetry with the 10 different surges formed without specific and intentional design? I guess it's possible, but I doubt that the spren just naturally and symmetrically granted power over the surges to those they bonded to with the Nahel bond.

Spren are manifestations of specific laws and parts of nature, they were likely already connected to the very Surges they were later granting to their knights. Or because spren copied Honorblades, their strong self-perception connected them to those Surges. Or Ishar changed that and bound them to give only those Surges. Or because the magic system isn't created, but manifests itself from interactions between Shards and the planet, Surgebinding was already present on Roshar, just nobody knew about this, and True Spren were already aligned with those Surges, but they weren't aware of that. That's why when Honor gave Heralds their Honorblades, those were already giving only 2 Surges, because that was the nature of Surgebinding, independent from Honor himself.

56 minutes ago, Duxredux said:

We know that the Fused, at least Raboniel, consider Adhesion to be a false Surge offered by Honor. Presumably this implies that they generally don't have access to Connection, yet how was BAM Connected in any measure to the Parsh?

They are biased:

Spoiler

LettersWords

The Fused only use nine of the Surges (they don't use Adhesion), and Raboniel describes Adhesion as "not a true Surge." Does this mean, in its original form on Ashyn, Surgebinding had no equivalent to Adhesion, and it was created by Honor later?

Brandon Sanderson

That is a valid way of theorizing, and I would encourage you to go that direction. Raboniel is biased. So take those two sentences as separate things. Do be aware she is very, very biased, but also your theorizing could bear fruit going that direction.

YouTube Spoiler Stream 4 (June 16, 2022)

But it's possible that Odium doesn't have Adhesion. But Yelig-Nar is said to grant all 10 Surges. So maybe for Unmade it's different, maybe because they were Unmade they have some fragments of Honor's investiture in them, as they were made out of it before being Unmade. Maybe that's why some of them can access connections.

Or she had found a way to naturally form a connection to all on Roshar, just like the Thrill developed a strong Connection to Dalinar. It’s really hard to say how she did it.

1 hour ago, Duxredux said:

As for the Sibling, perhaps the Nahel spren as it works with the Knights Radiant is a bond of Honor. Perhaps that was what was specifically lost when she says that she lost the ability to hear her father's tone - maybe she would have become a Deadeyes had she not had Cultivation's tone to draw on. Perhaps Navani's method of restoring the Sibling's ability to hear Honor's tone would help Deadeyes in some way. Storytelling-wise, there's plenty of Chekhov's Guns laying around here for this. As for the Stormfather, perhaps as the remaining holder of Honor's power and the remnants of Tanavast's soul, he was a source of that power and Tone and was not appreciably affected.

Unlikely, because Stormfather would be Deadeye. He should have been affected as well. He isn't the source of the Tone, but is the source of the Light, just like the Sibling is the source of her Light. He is mostly or fully from Honor's investiture. Also no Honorspren would be made as they are primarily from Honor's investiture.

1 hour ago, Duxredux said:

Assuming that this mechanism of a too-powerful Nahel bond is accurate for theory-crafting purposes, I would guess the Parsh transition to Dullform didn't happen in a single world shaking event at the binding of BAM. Instead it may have happened the very next time they tried to change forms  - and their ability to Connect was ripped away (along with their ability to hear rhythms) and left with the spren that had facilitated their form of power.

I doubt it. As I said, and as the epigraph said, BAM granted them forms of powers, they couldn't have come from Voidspren as those were imprisoned on Braize - they couldn't have left and returned to Roshar because Taln was preventing them from doing that. Those forms of powers must have come just from BAM and no other spren. That's why I think it happened the moment she was imprisoned, all Parsh lost their forms and minds at the same time.

Dullform is different than Slaveform - Slaveform is Parshmen, it's the form they were left with after the Recreance. Dullform is what Listeners at that time had, similar but different. Dullform is the form with no spren, spren giving them no form, or bonded with a wrong spren. Listeners have access to both Dullform and Mateform - and if what you suggest was true, then they would be also affected by BAM imprisonment - they weren't. That's because they weren't connected to her, she didn't give them forms of power, those were given to every other Singer through connection, but Listeners weren't connected to her.

1 hour ago, Duxredux said:

I don't have anywhere close to the references that some of the other theories like "Chanarach was the one who broke"

Oh, nobody has that many references in their theory as in that one  

1 hour ago, Duxredux said:

but the core idea is that whatever portion of the spiritweb that Connections, well, connect to, particularly the Nahel Bond, is specifically what is missing from the Deadeyes and the dullform parsh.

Yes. She didn't connect herself to the Nahel Bond per se, but rather to the nature of it? To the part of the spirit web responsible for that? Something close to it.

1 hour ago, Duxredux said:

Maybe this isn't enough new material compared to all of the other theories, but the mental leap was that the Recreance and Parshendi dullforms all seemed to be an issue with that bond specifically, and that dead Shardblades were left with an incomplete and forced Connection to the PR. It's tenuous, but I hope it at least got people thinking in new directions, even if it ultimately isn't correct.

No no, I think you're on the right track. The issue is with Nahel Bond, Mishram did something with that on a large scale. But it's really hard to pinpoint it exactly as there is little detailed information about it. After all this is one of the biggest mysteries of SA from the very beginning.