God Metals and Shardblades

[Alpacalypse Now]

So I believe it has been stated repeatedly in The Stormlight Archive that the physical manifestations of Invested Slivers (i.e. spren and spren-ish beings) take the form of metal, for example Soulcasters or Spren-blades. Are these metals the God Metals of Honor/Cultivation/Odium? If so, what exactly does that entail---Radiant Spren are Invested by both Honor and Cultivation if I understand correctly, so are the blades some alloy of Honor-ium and Cultivation-ium? Is that similar or different from how Harmonium is an alloy of Atium and Lerasium? What about a corrupted spren like Glys? Would he be an alloy of Stormium, Lifeium, and Voidium (I think these are better names)?

Spoiler

Szeth uses Nightblood to chip Ishar's Honorblade at the end of Rhythm of War, is that chip an actually usable piece of Stormium? If so, what would happen to an Allomancer burning it? For that matter, what would happen if an Allomancer burned Tower-ium (Stormium+Lifium) or War-ium (Stormium+Voidium)? 

 

[alder24]

Welcome to the Shard.

 

6 hours ago, Alpacalypse Now said:

Invested Slivers (i.e. spren and spren-ish beings)

Splinters, Spren are splinters. Sliver is a person that once held power of the Shard and gave it up, splinters were never a person, they are investiture that gained sentience and self-awareness.

7 hours ago, Alpacalypse Now said:

So I believe it has been stated repeatedly in The Stormlight Archive that the physical manifestations of Invested Slivers (i.e. spren and spren-ish beings) take the form of metal, for example Soulcasters or Spren-blades. Are these metals the God Metals of Honor/Cultivation/Odium? If so, what exactly does that entail---Radiant Spren are Invested by both Honor and Cultivation if I understand correctly, so are the blades some alloy of Honor-ium and Cultivation-ium?

In the case of Soulcaster and ancient fabrials, those might be made out of god metals, it's unclear yet, as some of them have recognizable basic metals. 

But Shardblades and Shardplate are an alloy of 2 god metals - Tanavastium and Koravellium - but because they are an alloy, they have a bit different properties than pure god metals. Plus they are made out of sapient spren. They are not pure Tanavastium or Koravellium, they are an alloy of those two. 

Spoiler

MoriWillow

Hello, I was hoping to find out whether some stuff I found vague in RoW was supposed to be vague or not.

In part one, Navani says that some of the fabrials they found in Urithiru worked in ways they understood, but had "spren trapped in Shadesmar" (which by the end we know refers to spren that have manifested as a fabrial), with Soulcasters being the only ones that confuse her.

Is the intent here supposed to be for us to make the connection that the older fabrials they found use the different types of metals used in modern fabrials? Or is it supposed to be vague how exactly they compare for now?

Brandon Sanderson

The confusion here is that Navani didn't realize that Soulcasters were a version of something like a Shardblade. She thought that by seeing spren in Shadesmar, it meant that the soulcasters had somehow trapped a spren--but they didn't seem to be trapped in a gemstone anywhere in the physical realm. This is what bugged her.

It's less about the metal, and more about "where is the trapped spren? I know it's there--I can see it in Shadesmar."

MoriWillow

Does this mean that all the old manifested spren fabrials, like the attractors and conjoiners they found in Urithiru and were able to improve, had weird metals like Soulcasters and it was just their identifiable functions that kept them from being confusing?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, that is correct. (This was regarding old manifested fabrials having weird metals as part of them.)

General Reddit 2020 (Dec. 23, 2020)

 

Spoiler

Alpharho

The metal of Shardblades. Cultivationspren versus honorspren, for example. Are they different metals?

Brandon Sanderson

No, but good question.

Alpharho

Are all orders the same alloy, essentially?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. There's a little asterisk on there, but not in the way you're asking... You could call those all the same alloy. Because the mixture to different spren is different, I think that you could argue that each one is its own alloy.

Alpharho

So, different proportions of tanavastium?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, but it doesn't quite work that way with these magics, right? I'm going to say that's up to the individual cosmerologist who is in the world, the arcanist, defining it. You would be able to find enough differences to legitimately call them different alloys if you wanted to.

Alpharho

Would you say different ratios of the same two metals?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. They are not going to have a third one in them, if that's what you're asking. But it doesn't quite work that way. Like, if you were going to take brass, you could measure the exact percentage. In this case, it is a thing; it's not like you could divide it up and split them apart, because they are a thing. And that thing would be called one thing.

Alpharho

But you won't say what that thing is called?

Brandon Sanderson

No, I won't say what that thing is called. But I think you and the 17th Sharders and folks that are dividing them would prefer to call them ten different things, and I think their nomenclature would be relevant.

Skyward Denver signing (Nov. 15, 2018)

 

Spoiler

FireyWoodedHill

Is Shardplate made of the same material as Shardblades? Is there a difference in material between a "dead" Shardblade and a living one?

Brandon Sanderson

You can generally look at all three as being the same material.

Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 12, 2018)

 

7 hours ago, Alpacalypse Now said:

Is that similar or different from how Harmonium is an alloy of Atium and Lerasium?

No, Harmonium is not an alloy of Atium and Lerasium:

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

He said ettmetal is chemically reactive, not nuclear.

The longer answer makes it sound like Harmonium isn't a Lerasium/Atium alloy, but a whole new metal. He described it as "super-cesium," and that its volatility was based on electrons, not on protons or neutrons.

"It is not unstable, it is reactive. So it's like a "super-cesium". It reacts so violently..."

Footnote: Unspecified question by Pagerunner.
Arcanum Unbounded Hoboken signing (Dec. 3, 2016)

 

Spoiler

Questioner

If I were to alloy atium and lerasium, would I get harmonium? Or is harmonium different after the Shards combined?

Brandon Sanderson

It's different after the Shards combined.

Questioner

If I was to take harmonium and separate it out through distillation, would I get lerasium and atium or something that functions similarly?

Brandon Sanderson

No, you would-- It actually has become a different--

Questioner

Can't be split?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. I mean, you could find a way, but you're not going to get it through normal, mechanical means.

Skyward Houston signing (Nov. 19, 2018)

 

Spoiler

FirstSelector

Would an alloy of atium and lerasium produce the same effects pre- and post-Harmony?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Footnote: Note that harmonium is technically not an atium/lerasium alloy.
/r/books AMA 2015 (Aug. 9, 2015)

 

7 hours ago, Alpacalypse Now said:

What about a corrupted spren like Glys? Would he be an alloy of Stormium, Lifeium, and Voidium (I think these are better names)?

Two possibilities here, first one, because of the WoB above telling that all Shardblades are the same alloy, Glys would also create the same alloy of Tanavastium and Koravellium. The second option is because he is invested by Odium, the Shardblade would be a new alloy of 3 god metals: Tanavastium, Koravellium and Raysium (far cooler names ).

7 hours ago, Alpacalypse Now said:

Spoiler

Szeth uses Nightblood to chip Ishar's Honorblade at the end of Rhythm of War, is that chip an actually usable piece of Stormium? If so, what would happen to an Allomancer burning it? For that matter, what would happen if an Allomancer burned Tower-ium (Stormium+Lifium) or War-ium (Stormium+Voidium)? 

 

No need for spoiler box with RoW  

Yes, that's pure Tanavastium. We don't know what would happen if Mistborn were to burn it. 

Spoiler

Questioner

My RAFO question will probably be, will an Allomancer or a Mistborn take that chip of Honorblade that fell off and burn it?

Brandon Sanderson

*hands RAFO card*

FanX 2021 (Sept. 18, 2021)

 

In case of alloys, like Shardblades or Sibling's god metal, it's possible yet hard for Mistborn to burn that, but Mistborn has no tie to this type of investiture, which would prevent it from happening. For now we don't know much about this unfortunately.

Spoiler

Questioner

If a Mistborn were to burn a piece of a Shardblade, what would happen?

Brandon Sanderson

This would be hard to make happen, but it would be possible. A Shardblade is going to act as, basically, an alloy of the god metal of Honor and so  what would it do? RAFO, but it is possible and it would do something. It would not be inert. It would be Allomanticaly viable.

Footnote: This question was also addressed here.
Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

 

Spoiler

word_thief

What would happen if a Mistborn ingested the metal of a Shardblade/Plate?

Brandon Sanderson

A Shardblade is Invested. A Mistborn isn't likely to have a tie to that type of Investiture. So probably nothing would happen…

General Twitter 2013 (Oct. 24, 2013)

 

[Alpacalypse Now]

That's really enlightening, thanks!

[alder24]

1 hour ago, Alpacalypse Now said:

That's really enlightening, thanks!

I am glad that I can help. Feel free to ask about anything.

Enlightening... Am I Sja-anat now?  

[Nogo]

9 hours ago, alder24 said:

I am glad that I can help. Feel free to ask about anything.

Enlightening... Am I Sja-anat now?  

But you still make my head hurt.   You answered that question like a research paper!  Really well said.

I am curious about the Glys thing tho.  Sanderson said in one of the quotes "not going to have a third one in them" referencing metals in shardblades. But that was 2018 before we had too much of a concept Glys and Glys like phenomena.  That's a big rabbit hole of guessing that I'm not jumping down.

[Immortal Platypus]

On 5/8/2023 at 7:11 AM, alder24 said:

Splinters, Spren are splinters. Sliver is a person that once held power of the Shard and gave it up, splinters were never a person, they are investiture that gained sentience and self-awareness.

One slight addition to this; the Stormfather is also a sliver. Other than that, everything I see is entirely correct and Nogo is right, my head is hurting a little.

[IlstrawberrySeed]

On 5/8/2023 at 6:11 AM, alder24 said:

Welcome to the Shard.

 

Splinters, Spren are splinters. Sliver is a person that once held power of the Shard and gave it up, splinters were never a person, they are investiture that gained sentience and self-awareness.

In the case of Soulcaster and ancient fabrials, those might be made out of god metals, it's unclear yet, as some of them have recognizable basic metals. 

But Shardblades and Shardplate are an alloy of 2 god metals - Tanavastium and Koravellium - but because they are an alloy, they have a bit different properties than pure god metals. Plus they are made out of sapient spren. They are not pure Tanavastium or Koravellium, they are an alloy of those two. 

  Reveal hidden contents

MoriWillow

Hello, I was hoping to find out whether some stuff I found vague in RoW was supposed to be vague or not.

In part one, Navani says that some of the fabrials they found in Urithiru worked in ways they understood, but had "spren trapped in Shadesmar" (which by the end we know refers to spren that have manifested as a fabrial), with Soulcasters being the only ones that confuse her.

Is the intent here supposed to be for us to make the connection that the older fabrials they found use the different types of metals used in modern fabrials? Or is it supposed to be vague how exactly they compare for now?

Brandon Sanderson

The confusion here is that Navani didn't realize that Soulcasters were a version of something like a Shardblade. She thought that by seeing spren in Shadesmar, it meant that the soulcasters had somehow trapped a spren--but they didn't seem to be trapped in a gemstone anywhere in the physical realm. This is what bugged her.

It's less about the metal, and more about "where is the trapped spren? I know it's there--I can see it in Shadesmar."

MoriWillow

Does this mean that all the old manifested spren fabrials, like the attractors and conjoiners they found in Urithiru and were able to improve, had weird metals like Soulcasters and it was just their identifiable functions that kept them from being confusing?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, that is correct. (This was regarding old manifested fabrials having weird metals as part of them.)

General Reddit 2020 (Dec. 23, 2020)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Alpharho

The metal of Shardblades. Cultivationspren versus honorspren, for example. Are they different metals?

Brandon Sanderson

No, but good question.

Alpharho

Are all orders the same alloy, essentially?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. There's a little asterisk on there, but not in the way you're asking... You could call those all the same alloy. Because the mixture to different spren is different, I think that you could argue that each one is its own alloy.

Alpharho

So, different proportions of tanavastium?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, but it doesn't quite work that way with these magics, right? I'm going to say that's up to the individual cosmerologist who is in the world, the arcanist, defining it. You would be able to find enough differences to legitimately call them different alloys if you wanted to.

Alpharho

Would you say different ratios of the same two metals?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. They are not going to have a third one in them, if that's what you're asking. But it doesn't quite work that way. Like, if you were going to take brass, you could measure the exact percentage. In this case, it is a thing; it's not like you could divide it up and split them apart, because they are a thing. And that thing would be called one thing.

Alpharho

But you won't say what that thing is called?

Brandon Sanderson

No, I won't say what that thing is called. But I think you and the 17th Sharders and folks that are dividing them would prefer to call them ten different things, and I think their nomenclature would be relevant.

Skyward Denver signing (Nov. 15, 2018)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

FireyWoodedHill

Is Shardplate made of the same material as Shardblades? Is there a difference in material between a "dead" Shardblade and a living one?

Brandon Sanderson

You can generally look at all three as being the same material.

Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 12, 2018)

 

No, Harmonium is not an alloy of Atium and Lerasium:

  Reveal hidden contents

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

He said ettmetal is chemically reactive, not nuclear.

The longer answer makes it sound like Harmonium isn't a Lerasium/Atium alloy, but a whole new metal. He described it as "super-cesium," and that its volatility was based on electrons, not on protons or neutrons.

"It is not unstable, it is reactive. So it's like a "super-cesium". It reacts so violently..."

Footnote: Unspecified question by Pagerunner.
Arcanum Unbounded Hoboken signing (Dec. 3, 2016)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

If I were to alloy atium and lerasium, would I get harmonium? Or is harmonium different after the Shards combined?

Brandon Sanderson

It's different after the Shards combined.

Questioner

If I was to take harmonium and separate it out through distillation, would I get lerasium and atium or something that functions similarly?

Brandon Sanderson

No, you would-- It actually has become a different--

Questioner

Can't be split?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. I mean, you could find a way, but you're not going to get it through normal, mechanical means.

Skyward Houston signing (Nov. 19, 2018)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

FirstSelector

Would an alloy of atium and lerasium produce the same effects pre- and post-Harmony?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Footnote: Note that harmonium is technically not an atium/lerasium alloy.
/r/books AMA 2015 (Aug. 9, 2015)

 

Two possibilities here, first one, because of the WoB above telling that all Shardblades are the same alloy, Glys would also create the same alloy of Tanavastium and Koravellium. The second option is because he is invested by Odium, the Shardblade would be a new alloy of 3 god metals: Tanavastium, Koravellium and Raysium (far cooler names ).

No need for spoiler box with RoW  

Yes, that's pure Tanavastium. We don't know what would happen if Mistborn were to burn it. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

My RAFO question will probably be, will an Allomancer or a Mistborn take that chip of Honorblade that fell off and burn it?

Brandon Sanderson

*hands RAFO card*

FanX 2021 (Sept. 18, 2021)

 

In case of alloys, like Shardblades or Sibling's god metal, it's possible yet hard for Mistborn to burn that, but Mistborn has no tie to this type of investiture, which would prevent it from happening. For now we don't know much about this unfortunately.

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

If a Mistborn were to burn a piece of a Shardblade, what would happen?

Brandon Sanderson

This would be hard to make happen, but it would be possible. A Shardblade is going to act as, basically, an alloy of the god metal of Honor and so  what would it do? RAFO, but it is possible and it would do something. It would not be inert. It would be Allomanticaly viable.

Footnote: This question was also addressed here.
Starsight Release Party (Nov. 26, 2019)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

word_thief

What would happen if a Mistborn ingested the metal of a Shardblade/Plate?

Brandon Sanderson

A Shardblade is Invested. A Mistborn isn't likely to have a tie to that type of Investiture. So probably nothing would happen…

General Twitter 2013 (Oct. 24, 2013)

 

The way he mentioned the asterisk on the alloy made me think it was an alloy of investiture manifesting as pure metal, like harmonium, rather than pure investiture manifesting as pure metal that's alloyed together. I could be wrong, but that's how I interpreted his asterisk comment.

I imagine the "same alloy but different" is like the 17+ electrum atium alloys that would be named nalatium 1, nalatium 2, etc. All basically the same, especially on the normal scale, but slightly different micro scale and possibly different effects on the macro scale. Alternitively, it could have to do with how shards can shatter (rather than splinter) and that each splinter (type) has a slightly different orientation of possible shards of the splintered shard, and therfore all of honors investiture is honors, in the same amount, for each order, but in windbreakers there is more (ex.) "oaths" investiture than in dustbringers.

To clarify, we know they can burn it, because it's a Shardmetal. (Not for you alder, it's just the WoB you quoted could make it seem like we don't know and you didn't specify).

I'm pretty sure the second WoB saying that is outdated.