Aiken Frost he/him Posted November 19, 2011 Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 (edited) Well, people are talking a lot about trellism in the other topic, so I thought I should start a thread about survivorism too. Truth be told, I liked to see that the old characters became revered figures of history and theology of Scadrial in Alloy of Law. Vin as the Ascendant Warrior and the Church of the Survivor made me all warm inside, hahaha. But I want to learn MOAR!!! Since I plan to GM in the Alloy of Law setting when the Mistborn RPG comes out and I know that at least one of my players will devour any bit of knowledge he can about this religion (as much as I want to), I am trying to collect everything we can. What we have: - Kelsier became the god-figure of this religion. The lord of the Mists, the Survivor and all that. What are the aspects of his worship? Guess he bless those who never surrender? Those who fight against oppression? Kind of a Freedom-based religion? EDIT: Something AWESOME just occurred me: Maybe the Pits of Hathsin became analogous to a type of hell, where people is sent by Ironeyes and The Survivor escaped that. - Vin is the Ascendant Warrior. Goddess of war? Hah! Awesome! - Breeze was referenced as the Counselor of the Gods, right? Cool as hell. Certainly fit his style. I guess he (as the rest of the crew) became sort of Saints for the church or something. What about the others? Ham is the Guardian of the Gods? What about Dox? Is Spook revered as anything more that the emperor of the new world? - Marsh, easy enough, became Ironeyes, a Death-like figure for the religion (not limited to Survivorism, though). As the brother of the Survivor himself, it is mythology BEGGING to be written, as someone already said! What is the aspects of his worship in Sliverism, though? Guess it is similar to the Lord Ruler religion. Anyone else remember more information? Has Brandon Sanderson said anything about it? Edited November 19, 2011 by Aiken Frost 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silus - Shard of Flame he/him Posted November 19, 2011 Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 My guess concerning Sliverism is that it is TLR's religion as passed down by Yomen's descendants, and that Marsh, as an Inquisitor, would be revered just like the old Inquisitors were. I'd also take a stab and say that Survivorism has kind of become the Christianity of Scadrial, in that it's the most common religion and has a lot of different variations, denominations and sects. Or at least it will once humanity spreads out a little more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBobs he/him Posted November 19, 2011 Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 Also Survivorists seem to be cutters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asha'man Logain Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Spook is the "Lord Mistborn" that keeps being referenced. he was apparently quite the hit with the ladies after he became the leader. All the kidnapped women can trace back their ancestory to him. Not sure if that is a religious place or just historical though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter she/her Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 lol Spook already had a girlfriend, guess he and Beldre had lots of kids. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus Ex Biotica Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 I'd also take a stab and say that Survivorism has kind of become the Christianity of Scadrial, in that it's the most common religion and has a lot of different variations, denominations and sects. Or at least it will once humanity spreads out a little more. So far, Scadrial doesn't seem to have a "Chrstianity" in the sense that America and Europe did during the 19th century (that is, one religion with variants that did not always get along, but which all really distrusted any non-Christian religions). Perhaps because everyone seems to respect the Words Of Founding... which have a ton of different religions. Even someone relatively judgmental about religions in Scadrial, like Steris, would have been mild and tolerant by the standards of almost anywhere in 19th century Earth. And, yes, at least some Survivorists cut their arms, in reference to Kelsier. This makes me wonder if Sliverists are still using their famous triangular razors, too. Maybe, 300 years later, even the worshipers of Rashek and Kelsier have something in common... I really, really like the idea of the Pits of Hathsin as a hell analogue, rather than a physical place. I'm less sure that anyone knows about Ironeyes and the Survivor being brothers - Marasi, at least, has no reaction when Marsh talks about his brother's work. -- Deus Ex Biotica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
name_here Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Elend is called The Last Emperor, and he's got a statue across from Vin's. Though, given the lack of any direct mention of him elsewhere, it's quite possible that his role in the mythology boils down to, "And the Ascendent Warrior married some guy and made him emperor." Incidentally, the fact that Vin enjoyed wearing dresses when not fighting people got left out of the legends. I think Marsh got confused or combined with The Lord Ruler by everyone who doesn't follow Sliverism, although Sliverism itself may have done the same. It's actually kind of odd, The Words Of Founding apparently included a concise summery of the events of the original series. Seems strange they'd mix up major figures like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHyde she/her Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Elend is called The Last Emperor, and he's got a statue across from Vin's. Though, given the lack of any direct mention of him elsewhere, it's quite possible that his role in the mythology boils down to, "And the Ascendent Warrior married some guy and made him emperor." I'm guessing there's more than that, after all the city is named after him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Marsh isn't combined with Lord Ruler. Wax specifically refers to gold compounding as "the way the Sliver gained immortality". They know Ironeyes and the Sliver are different. Also, "and the Ascendent Warrior married some guy and made him emperor" is pretty much exactly what happened. The only reason Elend got to wear a crown is that Vin loved him. Also also, Dockson the Administrator of THE GODS! Has a certain flair to it. I've always felt he was the crewmember that got the shortest end of the stick. Oh well. At least his legacy lives on. (or so I hope) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispsy he/him Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Elendil was named by spook I think, so he didn't necessarily have to do anything extra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus Ex Biotica Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Marsh isn't combined with Lord Ruler. Wax specifically refers to gold compounding as "the way the Sliver gained immortality". They know Ironeyes and the Sliver are different. Good point! I wonder if that means Sliverists believe that Ironeyes is a servant of the Sliver (which is a hilarious mistake to make), or if it is just Steris and other people who mis-categorize Sliverism as being about Ironeyes at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lauren.e135 she/her Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Marsh isn't combined with Lord Ruler. Wax specifically refers to gold compounding as "the way the Sliver gained immortality". They know Ironeyes and the Sliver are different. That doesn't mean he isn't associated with TLR's religion more than Survivorism. It just means that they are at least two different figures in Sliverism. Associating Marsh with Death seems to harken back to TLR and his inquisitors. If Marsh as "IronEyes" was more strongly associated with Survivorism I don't believe he would be held in the same view. In terms of Survivorism Marsh would be the Survivor's brother who martyred himself, not the fearful figure of death. It's actually kind of odd, The Words Of Founding apparently included a concise summery of the events of the original series. Seems strange they'd mix up major figures like that. That doesn't really mean anything though. Remember Yomen? He essentially saw his god die and be made a mortal, but he still believed even though he lived through the events. If he had such strongly opposing views when the events were happening, how much easier would it be for those who weren't even born until hundreds of years later? It would be reasonable for them to dismiss the Words of Founding as "embellished" or "biased" if not seeing them completely false all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lauren.e135 she/her Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Oh, I almost forgot. We also know that there are four alters in Survivorism churches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 This might be the reason for that: "Bureaucrat, politician, general. For a new nation to be born, it will need men of your individual talents." The fourth altar would be for either a martyr (Kelsier) or an assassin (Vin). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiken Frost he/him Posted November 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2011 Very awesome thought, guys. I'm loving the theories and informations. Keep it flowing! Oh, I almost forgot. We also know that there are four alters in Survivorism churches. Very good point. I believe they are focused in figures of Survivorism rather than ideals, as Eric pointed. I think we can securely guess that one is for Kelsier and one is for Vin. The third, I would guess Mare, Kelsier's wife. Maybe the fourth one is for Marsh? Maybe not necessarily for worship, but to "appease" what they think is an sinister entity. That also would make an awesome pattern, like the "Holy Trinity" from Christianity: The Survivor, The Survivor's Wife, The Survivor's Apprentice and The Survivor's Brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiccupGreyjoy Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 I would like to add that Wayne made random reference to "God-beyond", suggesting there is still some general idea of Creator (in similar style like Lewis made references to "Emperor over the Sea" in Narnia, as metaphor for God-Father, somehow distinct from Aslan). Ironically, in the past it was probably recognized in TLR´s religion as that guy had only "sliver of infinity" (where after all,"Sliver" nickname comes from). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcanist Lupus he/him Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 I think the four altars go to Kelsier (the Survivor), Vin (the Ascendant Warrior), Elend (the Last Emperor), and Marsh (Ironeyes). Also, I think Elend has a greater role than just "Vin's boyfriend". HoA, Chapter 1: From behind, Fatren could hear the soldiers whispering. They'd all heard of a man named Elend Venture. He was the one who had seized power in Luthadel after the Lord Ruler's death two years before. News from up north was scarce and unreliable, but most of it mentioned Venture. He had fought off all rivals to the throne, even killing his own father. He'd hidden his nature as a Mistborn, and was supposedly married to the very woman who had slain the Lord Ruler. I suspect that Elend gets credit for saving the people from the disaster, while Kelsier gets credit for stopping the disaster and saving the world, and Vin gets credit for killing the Lord Ruler. Breeze, Ham, and the others probably get credit at (approximately) the Apostle level. Also, I don't think that Spook made Sazed's words about the events of the books public knowledge. For one thing, they include awkward details like OreSeur's role in cementing Kelsier's legend, Spook almost turning evil, Breeze going into shock, and Hemalurgy. Sazed's metalminds were probably distributed verbatim, but his comments on the events of the books were probably heavily edited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 Also, I don't think that Spook made Sazed's words about the events of the books public knowledge. For one thing, they include awkward details like OreSeur's role in cementing Kelsier's legend, Spook almost turning evil, Breeze going into shock, and Hemalurgy. Sazed's metalminds were probably distributed verbatim, but his comments on the events of the books were probably heavily edited. I agree that Sazed's words were probably censored for the public (first instance of government power!). The last thing that Spook and the others would want is crazy people running around with spikes. I think some of the religious knowledge may have been obscured though. Miles made some comments on Trellism that is decidedly different from the religion we heard from Sazed in the original trilogy. Either the record was lost with time, or Spook and the others wanted to create unity by keeping diversity to a minimum. Probably not a bad idea in the very beginning. One thing that puzzles me though, is whether or not Spook and the others ever met up with Marsh again? BTW Dockson= God of Logistics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcanist Lupus he/him Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 I agree that Sazed's words were probably censored for the public (first instance of government power!). The last thing that Spook and the others would want is crazy people running around with spikes. I think some of the religious knowledge may have been obscured though. Miles made some comments on Trellism that is decidedly different from the religion we heard from Sazed in the original trilogy. Either the record was lost with time, or Spook and the others wanted to create unity by keeping diversity to a minimum. Probably not a bad idea in the very beginning. One thing that puzzles me though, is whether or not Spook and the others ever met up with Marsh again? BTW Dockson= God of Logistics I would guess that Marsh met with Spook at least once, they came to an understanding, and then he left. It would be awkward having him around. "Hi! I killed Elend, and I tried to kill Vin, but I was being controlled by the bad guy at the time, so it's all good! And I represent everything that was scary and intimidating about the Final Empire, but don't worry, I won't use my super powers for evil anymore! And I'm immortal, but don't worry!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus Ex Biotica Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 And remember, this is Marsh. A man so socially awkward, he made Vin look talkative when he trained her, and so set in his ways, he hasn't learned subtlety with emotional Allomancy after 300 years. When he has a secret meeting to swap info with a stranger, he goes out of his way to mention, as a side note, that he doesn't really agree with God. He is not well-suited to bringing calm and reassurance. Honestly, I'm not certain he would have spoken with Spook even once before sauntering off to lurk at the edges of society, playing Hemalurgic Batman. -- Deus Ex Biotica P.S. Yes, Marsh is one of my favorite Mistborn characters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 I would guess that Marsh met with Spook at least once, they came to an understanding, and then he left. It would be awkward having him around. "Hi! I killed Elend, and I tried to kill Vin, but I was being controlled by the bad guy at the time, so it's all good! And I represent everything that was scary and intimidating about the Final Empire, but don't worry, I won't use my super powers for evil anymore! And I'm immortal, but don't worry!" Might be just a little awkward... Probably wasn't a public meeting or otherwise it may have went "And the Lord Mistborn told IronEyes to take a hike, or wasing the was without the hiking." There would probalby be an aspect of that conversation somewhere in the religions. Either way, Marsh will always mean death and doesn't appear that he has much of an issue with that (he runs around in a black robe after all!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter she/her Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 given Spook's experience with being spiked and brainwashed by Ruin, I doubt he'd blame Marsh for anything, still, most people wouldn't understand about what happened, and would just have seen a scary Inquisitor, so obviously Marsh stayed away for the benefit of the common people's comfort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 he/him Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 I disagree with the alters- I think they would reflect the four Figures of Survivorism we see in the original Trilogy- Kelsier the Survivor of Hathsin, Vin the Lady Heir/Ascendant Warrior, Sazed the Holy Announcer, and Spook, the Survivor of the Flames/Lord Mistborn. Also, the Survivor does something else- He appears to his followers. Alloy of Law pg. 268 The Church of the Survivor taught that the mists belonged to him, Kelsier, Lord of the Mists. He appeared on nights when the mist was thick and gave his blessing to the independent. Whether they be theives, scholars, anarchists, or a farmer who lived on his own land. Anyone who survived on their own-or who thought for himself-was someone who followed the Survivor, whether he knew it or not. I assume that this is TenSoon, who still has Kelsier's bones, and who has a chance of listening to him, since he's still meddling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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