Terris Breeding Program Conspiracy Theory

[zaqwer]

So, we know from the Hero of Ages epigraphs (as well as from the text of the book) that the Steel Inquisitors of Era 1 had hemalurgic spikes that granted them the use of Feruchemical gold. But this raises the question, how were the Inquisitors getting Feruchemical gold spikes before the death of the Lord Ruler? We know that after his death, the Inquisitors went to Terris and spiked a bunch of the Keepers there, but before the fall of the empire, all the Keepers were in hiding, and supposedly the Lord Ruler thought he'd eliminated feruchemy. And we know that the pre-Collapse Inquisitors definitely had healing powers because we see it in Book 1. I suppose it's possible that those Inquisitors could all have been made before the Lord Ruler believed he'd gotten rid of the Feruchemists, or that the Inquisitors were reusing old spikes, but I have another theory.

 

In Well of Ascension, it is stated that Tindwyl was made a breeding mother, which was a big coup for the Synod since it meant that feruchemy could be passed on to more generations of Terrispeople. Supposedly this was done because the Lord Ruler believed that feruchemy had been eliminated from the bloodline and was trying to make the Terris more docile and temperate.

 

But what if that was just a cover story? What if the Lord Ruler and those in charge of the Terris breeding program knew Tindwyl was a feruchemist and chose her anyway. What if instead of trying to eliminate feruchemy from the population, the real purpose of the breeding program was to carefully manage feruchemy, so that there would always be a few Feruchemists around who could be spiked to make new Inquisitors?

 

The more I think about this, the more it fits for me. We know that the Lord Ruler considered feruchemy dangerous because if it ever mixed with allomancy, then someone might arise with his powers and could potentially overthrow him. But if he were to carefully control feruchemy by selective breeding, he could know with a high degree of certainty where all the Feruchemists were and ensure that none of them were in a position to produce a Fullborn. This would explain the forced sterilization for all Terris stewards — no chance of feruchemy getting into the general population if the only Terrispeople who interact outside of Terris are unable to have children. 

 

But why not get rid of feruchemy altogether? Well, feruchemy is pretty useful in the hands of loyal allies, and the Lord Ruler could ensure this by having a supply of Feruchemists on hand to be spiked and their power given to loyal Inquisitors. Also, in order to actually eliminate feruchemy forever, it would be necessary to eliminate every single Terrisperson, and I'm pretty sure the Lord Ruler probably knew this, given his experience with making the first kandra. However, as far as we know, he never took any steps to actually go out and kill every last Terrisperson. Perhaps this is because he didn't want to commit genocide on his own people (though I find this hard to believe, seeing as he was perfectly willing to commit cultural genocide by wiping out their heritage/religion and to submit them to a centuries long forced breeding program) or maybe it seemed like too much work. But if the Lord Ruler effectively controlled the reproduction of the entire Terris people (and there is no evidence to the contrary), then it would be trivial to just kill them all (or at least make it so no new Terris people are ever born). And yet, he never did. Instead, he constructed an elaborate program which ensured that while most of Terris was without feruchemical power, there would always be at least a few Feruchemists. 

 

In fact, it's likely that even the institution of the Keepers was known and tacitly accepted by the Lord Ruler. Without someone to teach the next generation, the new Feruchemists wouldn't know how to use their powers, and that would mean that the Lord Ruler wouldn't know which particular members of the Terris population actually had feruchemy (and according to this theory, he would need to know so that he would know who to spike to make new Inquisitors). Now, I'm sure that the Keepers were probably persecuted and closely surveilled to make sure they didn't do anything that the Lord Ruler thought too dangerous to the empire (not to mention occasionally some Keepers getting spiked to make Inquisitors), but on the whole they were allowed to exist. After all, the Keepers hardly posed a threat, so long as their bloodline was properly managed, and even their collection of forgotten knowledge was mostly kept secret from the general population. (If you want to go full tin-foil hat here, you could imagine that potentially a few members of the Synod were in on the plot and were purposefully steering Keeper policy away from open rebellion against the Final Empire.) And indeed, for hundreds of years the Keepers were no threat to the Lord Ruler or his Empire — until one of their members went rogue.

 

Now, is there any concrete, indisputable evidence for this theory in the text? No. But I think that with everything I've laid out, the pieces just fit together too well. Do I think that this was intended by Brandon? Probably not, but like I said, nothing in the text explicitly contradicts it. And I think that with everything we know, it actually makes more sense than the Lord Ruler just assuming he'd wiped out feruchemy. 

 

TL;DR: The Terris Breeding Program was not actually intended to eliminate feruchemy, but instead to create a steady supply of Feruchemists that the Lord Ruler could use to turn into Inquisitors.

[alder24]

6 hours ago, zaqwer said:

So, we know from the Hero of Ages epigraphs (as well as from the text of the book) that the Steel Inquisitors of Era 1 had hemalurgic spikes that granted them the use of Feruchemical gold.

Not all Inquisitors had those spikes during TFE because they couldn't find Feruchemist:

Spoiler

17th Shard

Very careful roleplayers have counted the numbers of Inquisitors appearing in the novels and they claim there must have been 25 if Vin and Elend killed two Inquisitors between Mistborn 2 and Mistborn 3. Could you clarify the numbers of Inquisitors there were? They've literally counted.

Brandon Sanderson

They literally, yeah…No, I mean, I've got it written down somewhere. I'm now so separated from this book. I had always imagined there being around three dozen Inquisitors at any given time.

17th Shard

Oh, okay, so quite a bit more than 20.

Brandon Sanderson

Right. Well the thing you've gotta remember is that, with the powers they're given, they're pretty much immune to disease and things like that, particularly after they've gained their healing spike.

17th Shard

Right. Is that common to all Inquisitors?

Brandon Sanderson

It does not come to all. It comes to almost all. That's a pretty common one, but being an Inquisitor does not mean you get it. I think it mentions in the books that there's one spike that they all get, but I can't remember what it is.

17th Shard

I would imagine that would…well, okay, a steel spike so they could see.

Brandon Sanderson

Right. Yeah, obvious, but the thing is you've gotta have a Keeper to be able give a healing spike. The ones alive now pretty much all have healing spikes, but there were times throughout history when he needed a new Inquisitor and he didn't have a Keeper (a Feruchemist) handy. He could make an Inquisitor without that. That is not what's keeping them alive from the spikes being driven through their bodies.

17th Shard

So the linchpin spike is not always the same type of spike.

Brandon Sanderson

It doesn't have to be. The linchpin spike is just, when you're putting that many spikes together into somebody it needs a spike to coordinate them all. That is part of what's holding their body together from all of this damage, and it doesn't have to be the healing spike. The nature of Feruchemy is separate from that, if that makes any sense. For instance, you could put a few spikes into an Inquisitor without a linchpin spike, and they wouldn't die.

17th Shard Interview (Oct. 3, 2010)

The Lord Ruler was keeping Feruchemical powers away from Inquisitors, as he knew that they can be used against him by Ruin, but also Inquisitors might have figured out compounding and an answer to his immortality. He provided them with only healing, no other Feruchemical power. And it was effective as even under Ruin's control they didn't learn how to compound:

Spoiler

Moogle

Compounding requires practice, according to The Hero of Age's annotations. And yet, it's apparently as easy as burning a metalmind. What was going on that meant the Inquisitors couldn't figure out how to do it (despite Ruin likely knowing how and undoubtedly wanting them to learn) for over a year? What skill did they need to practice doing, exactly?

And what happened while they were practicing burning metalminds without successfully Compounding? Did they get an Allomantic effect?

Brandon Sanderson

What I think I was getting at in the annotations was a cosmere magic rule that, perhaps, I hadn't completely refined yet. This is the idea that INTENTION is vitally important to the workings of most cosmere magics.

You can learn to burn metals instinctively over time, but it does take time--time for your body to figure out what it's doing. If you have instruction and guidance, you can pick it up in an evening, like Vin did. Same goes for most of the magics. This ties into Awakening, with the idea that you have to form a command.

During Warbreaker was where I really refined this aspect of the magic. Logically, since the beginning of the cosmere, I've wanted all three Realms to be important to the way the magics worked. The "Practice" therefore for compounding is mental practice--a barrier to overcome in understanding what is happening, and what it will do to you.

If you already know all of these things by having it explained to you, that barrier is far less high. I think that was what I was talking about in the Annotations, without really having the idea specified yet--though I'd have to look back at the annotation and re-read it to say for certain.

Worldbuilders AMA (Dec. 3, 2015)

 

While this is an interesting idea, I don't think the Lord Ruler breed Terris for Fercuhemy. It would be against all his actions and fears. If he was doing that, than all Keepers, including Sazed, should be under constant surveillance, imprisoned, or already used for gaining attribute, and yet Sazed was somehow part of revolution against TLR. Sazed not only remain hidden, he also was able to just walk into Kredik Shaw twice, get himself imprisoned with metalminds swallowed - Inquisitors can see Kandra's invested spikes, so they would also be able to see inside Sazed's body and notice his metalminds, which were mostly empty, as he needed to store attribute first. If that was the purpose of the breeding program, Inquisitors would be wary of any Terrisman walking into Kredik Shaw, they would know Terris can have powers, and would take actions when they saw Sazed's metalminds in his guts. However it looked like Inquisitors were totally unaware that Sazed could be Feruhemist. Moreover the Synod was able to successfully avoid being capture and remain hidden for centuries, and kept their powers as a secret.

7 hours ago, zaqwer said:

Supposedly this was done because the Lord Ruler believed that feruchemy had been eliminated from the bloodline and was trying to make the Terris more docile and temperate.

Don't forget that when he was holding the power of Preservation, with his mind expanded beyond human limits, he still made a mistake of assuming that turning only Feruchemists into Mistwrights will get rid of Feruchemy for good, and he didn't know about genes, which are in fact responsible for making new Feruchemists. He made a mistake, and he made it again 1000 years later.

[zaqwer]

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

Sazed not only remain hidden, he also was able to just walk into Kredik Shaw twice, get himself imprisoned with metalminds swallowed - Inquisitors can see Kandra's invested spikes, so they would also be able to see inside Sazed's body and notice his metalminds, which were mostly empty, as he needed to store attribute first. If that was the purpose of the breeding program, Inquisitors would be wary of any Terrisman walking into Kredik Shaw, they would know Terris can have powers, and would take actions when they saw Sazed's metalminds in his guts.

Do we know for a fact that Inquisitors can see metal inside the body? I could be misremembering, but I thought that the reason Inquisitors could detect kandra was because of their vulnerability to emotional allomancy.

However, it would be hypocritical given my theory to argue that because something isn't directly in the text, it can't be true. It is certainly plausible that Inquisitors could see invested metals inside the body, but I imagine that it would be more difficult, and if you weren't looking closely, you might easily miss it. If whoever searched Sazed wasn't expecting there to be metalminds in his stomach, they might have just overlooked it. 

Besides, regardless of the actual purpose of the breeding program, the Inquisitors should absolutely have known that Sazed was a Feruchemist at the end of TFE. He had earlier saved Vin from an Inquisitor at Kredik Shaw using feruchemy. It seems likely to me that the Inquisitors thought they'd neutralized Sazed as a threat, and were just very, very wrong. 

2 hours ago, alder24 said:

Don't forget that when he was holding the power of Preservation, with his mind expanded beyond human limits, he still made a mistake of assuming that turning only Feruchemists into Mistwrights will get rid of Feruchemy for good, and he didn't know about genes, which are in fact responsible for making new Feruchemists. He made a mistake, and he made it again 1000 years later.

While it is entirely possible that the Lord Ruler just made a mistake (despite his insistence that he never makes mistakes), I just don't think that the breeding program actually makes sense if his goal was to eliminate feruchemy. He knew that the potential for feruchemy still existed even with all the Feruchemists gone, and thus knew that the power was somehow in the bloodline (even if he didn't exactly understand the genetics). If I were a tyrannical god-emperor who feared the power of feruchemy and wanted to stamp it out, I wouldn't waste time with a complicated breeding program. I would just kill all the people who might have the potential to pass the trait on to future generations. No need to wait decades or even centuries to see results, if there are no Terris, then there are no feruchemists. The fact that he didn't pursue this policy suggests to me that it was never about eliminating feruchemy entirely, it was just about controlling it.

[alder24]

22 minutes ago, zaqwer said:

Do we know for a fact that Inquisitors can see metal inside the body? I could be misremembering, but I thought that the reason Inquisitors could detect kandra was because of their vulnerability to emotional allomancy.

It doesn't make sense for Kandra to stay away from Inquisitors as they have the First Contract that protects them from emotional allomancy, and the contract made by Kelsier was "legal", and could be seen by the Lord Ruler if he wishes. Moreover Inquisitor doesn't have the allomantic power necessary to break into Kandra, they don't have duralumin. OreSoon had to stay away from Inquisitors because they would know he is a Kandra and it would blow up Kelsier's cover and plan. Inquisitors doesn't constantly riot emotions of poeple around them, nor would it work on Kandra.

HoA prologue Marsh sees metals in blood and spikes inside Inquisitors bodies. Chapter 6 he sees new spikes in chests and backs of Inquisitors who wear robes.

43 minutes ago, zaqwer said:

Besides, regardless of the actual purpose of the breeding program, the Inquisitors should absolutely have known that Sazed was a Feruchemist at the end of TFE. He had earlier saved Vin from an Inquisitor at Kredik Shaw using feruchemy. It seems likely to me that the Inquisitors thought they'd neutralized Sazed as a threat, and were just very, very wrong. 

I don't know if they should have known after the first encounter, as Sazed sneaked behind the Inquisitor and hit him in the head, knocking him out. So he shouldn't know that it was a Feruchemist.

46 minutes ago, zaqwer said:

While it is entirely possible that the Lord Ruler just made a mistake (despite his insistence that he never makes mistakes), I just don't think that the breeding program actually makes sense if his goal was to eliminate feruchemy. He knew that the potential for feruchemy still existed even with all the Feruchemists gone, and thus knew that the power was somehow in the bloodline (even if he didn't exactly understand the genetics). If I were a tyrannical god-emperor who feared the power of feruchemy and wanted to stamp it out, I wouldn't waste time with a complicated breeding program. I would just kill all the people who might have the potential to pass the trait on to future generations. No need to wait decades or even centuries to see results, if there are no Terris, then there are no feruchemists. The fact that he didn't pursue this policy suggests to me that it was never about eliminating feruchemy entirely, it was just about controlling it.

But Rashek was also a Terris, and a sentimental one. He had his own house placed in Kredik Shaw, spent time there as an old man even though he didn't need to, he kept Alendi's book, and this was done under Ruin's influence. It's easy to assume that he didn't want to see his kin perished, either because of real sentiment, or Ruin's influence. With the breeding program he can restrict Feruchemy genes, as not everyone has as strong genes as Feruchemists, thus cultivating only those with very weak genes would practically lead to the end of Feruchemy, or at least make them extremely rare. So the genetic sense of this program checks out. If he wanted to control and use Feruchemy for spikes, then he would have them imprisoned, not allow them to "run free".

And don't forget that he said he never makes mistakes while making several mistakes while saying that. 

[cometaryorbit]

I think it's entirely possible. Supposedly TLR and the Ministry already thought Feruchemy was extinct, but while they couldn't *always* find Keepers for the gold spikes, the fact they were even still trying implies that they knew Feruchemy wasn't 100% extinct.

But it's also possible- and maybe more likely - that TLR's intent was genuinely to reduce Feruchemy as much as possible without making the Terris extinct*, but that it was recognized they wouldn't get all the way to zero, so they kept looking for the few exceptions to spike.

(Either way I think most of the Ministry involved did honestly believe Feruchemy was gone. Probably only TLR, the Inquisitors, and a few top obligators knew the truth.)

Also TLR was not terribly stable late in his reign, so it's possible that in different periods his goals changed, or that at times he thought Feruchemy was 100% extinct and at other times he knew that was false.

*I do think it was TLR's own Terris connection that kept him from killing them off. I think the extreme horrible oppression we see in Vin's time is the result of a long period of corruption (either due to Ruin's influence or TLR's own declining mental stability/decay of goals).

Sazed, IIRC, says there was a big purge of Terris in the 3rd century when the Keepers became known (they were founded about 200 years after TLR's Ascension I think). Yomen says the stewardship program was a 6th century invention of the Canton of Inquisition (and, from the context, that involved introducing the eunuchs thing).

So I think it's actually pretty likely that TLR *originally* made the (non-mistwraithified) Terris a privileged class (though he didn't give them Allomancy), thinking that the mistwraith transformation had removed any threat they posed, and only started changing course on that in the 3rd century (and then progressively made it worse over the next 400 years or so). But that process was probably slow enough, step by step, that TLR never considered outright killing off the Terris (and, given his instability in his later reign, he might have lied to himself about how bad things actually were).

Edited March 6, 2023 by cometaryorbit

[alder24]

8 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

Sazed, IIRC, says there was a big purge of Terris in the 3rd century when the Keepers became known (they were founded about 200 years after TLR's Ascension I think). Yomen says the stewardship program was a 6th century invention of the Canton of Inquisition (and, from the context, that involved introducing the eunuchs thing).

So I think it's actually pretty likely that TLR *originally* made the (non-mistwraithified) Terris a privileged class (though he didn't give them Allomancy), thinking that the mistwraith transformation had removed any threat they posed, and only started changing course on that in the 3rd century (and then progressively made it worse over the next 400 years or so).

One correction, by the time Keepers were created, Terris religion was already wiped out from people's memory. So it's likely that persecution of Terrisan started as soon as he realized that Feruchemy was still present among them, which would have taken just a few short years. It took Rashek around two centuries to conquer the whole world, so by the end of his conquest Terris religion should already be forgotten.

[cometaryorbit]

25 minutes ago, alder24 said:

One correction, by the time Keepers were created, Terris religion was already wiped out from people's memory. So it's likely that persecution of Terrisan started as soon as he realized that Feruchemy was still present among them, which would have taken just a few short years.

I disagree on both parts. I think the loss of the Terris religion was probably largely due to the Mistwraith-ification of all the Feruchemists (who likely were a large part of the population back then, before multiple TLR-induced reductions). Probably basically all scholars and religious leaders were Feruchemists, so much of the doctrine was quickly lost.

Also TLR announced himself as the Hero of Ages, the prime figure of Terris religion, so he had a chance to rewrite their doctrine - he replaced their (now gone) religious leaders. I doubt his replacement of the original Terris religion was as total/hostile* in the first century as it became later. 200 years of a new doctrine, in a world where there were probably no written records (because the Feruchemists kept it all in their copperminds) and no living tradition of the doctrine above the folk level (because of the mistwraith transformation), would easily be enough to totally overwrite what existed before.

*TLR announced himself as Hero of Ages. The Deepness did disappear; IMO it's totally possible that the Terris of that time, totally shocked by the disappearance of their leaders and scholars, accepted his claim and supported him as a source of stability in a world gone crazy.

I don't think he *did* realize in a few years, I think it genuinely took at least a generation and (from what Sazed says) quite possibly two centuries plus. I think TLR thought he'd solved the threat and simply didn't pay attention.

32 minutes ago, alder24 said:

 It took Rashek around two centuries to conquer the whole world

I'm not sure - or at least it's unclear. Tindall says that King Wednegon was the last to meaningfully resist TLR, and Deepness-caused diminished food supplies were an issue in that war: thus no more than a few years post TLR's Ascension.

But there's also a reference to TLR using koloss to conquer new societies discovered on the islands in (apparently) relatively recent (to Vin's era) times.

I think Sazed also says that TLR conquered some nation "late in his first century of life", which would have to be well after Wednegon's war, maybe 40 or 50 years post Ascension at least.

So it's pretty baffling. Maybe "meaningful" just means that Wednegon was thought to have a chance and the others didn't - but given TLR's powers its hard to see how he ever could have had a chance. Perhaps it means that the advantages weren't yet fully obvious? Also, TLR's tech suppression wouldn't have happened yet, and I'd think Napoleonic era armies would do very well vs koloss - to the point that I can totally see Wednegon thinking logistics were the real killer (koloss don't have to care about that). Maybe Wednegon's armies actually won battles (certainly if TLR wasn't personally present, or hadn't yet fully worked out Compounding, that seems totally reasonable) and that was the distinguishing factor.

[alder24]

8 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

I disagree on both parts. I think the loss of the Terris religion was probably largely due to the Mistwraith-ification of all the Feruchemists (who likely were a large part of the population back then, before multiple TLR-induced reductions). Probably basically all scholars and religious leaders were Feruchemists, so much of the doctrine was quickly lost.

Also TLR announced himself as the Hero of Ages, the prime figure of Terris religion, so he had a chance to rewrite their doctrine - he replaced their (now gone) religious leaders. I doubt his replacement of the original Terris religion was as total/hostile* in the first century as it became later. 200 years of a new doctrine, in a world where there were probably no written records (because the Feruchemists kept it all in their copperminds) and no living tradition of the doctrine above the folk level (because of the mistwraith transformation), would easily be enough to totally overwrite what existed before.

*TLR announced himself as Hero of Ages. The Deepness did disappear; IMO it's totally possible that the Terris of that time, totally shocked by the disappearance of their leaders and scholars, accepted his claim and supported him as a source of stability in a world gone crazy.

I don't think he *did* realize in a few years, I think it genuinely took at least a generation and (from what Sazed says) quite possibly two centuries plus. I think TLR thought he'd solved the threat and simply didn't pay attention.

Good points on Feruchemists being religious leaders. It's plausible that Rashek would establish himself as a new religious leader in absence of the old ones. However I've always imagined that due to strong belief among Terrisan, that Alendi is the Hero of Ages, they would be the first one to denounce Rashek's claims, strongly believing that he usurped that title, and opposing him. Kvaan's final message seems to support that. It would be a situation similar to Jesus returning to Nazareth and being rejected as a prophet simply because people knew who he was.

But I still think Rashek would notice very quickly that Feruchemists still exist. Terrisan discovering powers would have no reason to hide them, and would announce themself as new Feruchemists, especially after noticeable absence of old one, Terrisan would feel a strong need for new ones, and those news would soon reach Rashek, especially if he placed himself as a new religious ruler and place Terrisan as new upper class.

And next adding to the fact that those times were early industrial Earth, even if Terris was lagging behind a bit, they would still have some written records, memories, and traditions, so it wouldn't be that easy for Rashek to just claim otherwise as people still remember what they were told and teached by Feruchemists.

7 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

I'm not sure - or at least it's unclear. Tindall says that King Wednegon was the last to meaningfully resist TLR, and Deepness-caused diminished food supplies were an issue in that war: thus no more than a few years post TLR's Ascension.

I took that form Coppermind, but it doesn't have a source. 

[Mistchemist16]

4 hours ago, alder24 said:

It doesn't make sense for Kandra to stay away from Inquisitors as they have the First Contract that protects them from emotional allomancy, and the contract made by Kelsier was "legal", and could be seen by the Lord Ruler if he wishes. Moreover Inquisitor doesn't have the allomantic power necessary to break into Kandra, they don't have duralumin. OreSoon had to stay away from Inquisitors because they would know he is a Kandra and it would blow up Kelsier's cover and plan. Inquisitors doesn't constantly riot emotions of poeple around them, nor would it work on Kandra.

Just wanted to correct one point: Inquistors made from Mistborn would have double zinc and brass. So, some could break in, even if the rest couldn’t. But it’s probably a combo. Inquisitors can identify Hemalurgic spikes in a kandra and some can take control even without Duralumin 

[zaqwer]

4 hours ago, alder24 said:

And don't forget that he said he never makes mistakes while making several mistakes while saying that. 

Yeah, I was joking when I said that. TLR certainly made many mistakes throughout his reign. 

It does seem plausible that the breeding program was a policy that only evolved after centuries of rule. With so little information about the history of the Final Empire, it's tough to say when exactly it was first started and in what form. I can definitely see it not starting out as bad as it got, and only getting worse as time went on and TLR's mental state deteriorated. It's possible that he started out with sentimental intentions of not wanting to see the Terris people wiped out and ended up subjecting them to something arguably even worse.

19 minutes ago, Mistchemist16 said:

Just wanted to correct one point: Inquistors made from Mistborn would have double zinc and brass. So, some could break in, even if the rest couldn’t. But it’s probably a combo. Inquisitors can identify Hemalurgic spikes in a kandra and some can take control even without Duralumin 

And that's not even mentioning that Inquisitors probably knew about duralumin (since TLR definitely did). 

Edited March 6, 2023 by zaqwer

[Mistchemist16]

Just now, zaqwer said:

And that's not even mentioning that Inquisitors probably knew about duralumin (since TLR definitely did). 

The Inquistors did know about aluminum, so knowing about Duralumin makes sense. But only Mistborn Inquistors could actually use it and they could already break kandra. Though Duralumin would still be very good to give Mistborn Inquistors. It’s not like TLR would give Duralumin to anyone who wasn’t himself or an Inquistor who already could burn it. I guess he could’ve let trusted Hemalurgists try it out, but we have no hard evidence of that. Ruin was the only one to use electrum spikes and he already knew the powers of every Metallic Art.

[zaqwer]

3 minutes ago, Mistchemist16 said:

The Inquistors did know about aluminum, so knowing about Duralumin makes sense. But only Mistborn Inquistors could actually use it and they could already break kandra. Though Duralumin would still be very good to give Mistborn Inquistors. It’s not like TLR would give Duralumin to anyone who wasn’t himself or an Inquistor who already could burn it. I guess he could’ve let trusted Hemalurgists try it out, but we have no hard evidence of that. Ruin was the only one to use electrum spikes and he already knew the powers of every Metallic Art.

Yeah, I briefly forgot that only Inquisitors with the specific spike could burn duralumin, and none of those existed before TLR's death.

[Treamayne]

2 hours ago, zaqwer said:

Yeah, I briefly forgot that only Inquisitors with the specific spike could burn duralumin, and none of those existed before TLR's death.

We don't know that. Also, any Mistborn Inquisitors would have had Duralumin.

We know that there is no evidence that they did exist; But we also know that the Steel Ministry tested Obligators for metals that were know to TLR but not known by the general public because Lord Aradan Yomen was a known Seer (Atium Misting - technically an Electrum Misting). Since TLR knew about Duralumin he could have made spikes from any Duralumin Gnats they found in the populace (though Seeking) or any tested Obligators that were Duralumin Mistings that screwed up. In Fact, there's a WoB (technically annotation) that shows that some Inquisitors had Duralumin:

Spoiler

Brandon Sanderson

HoA Annotation to Chapter Seventy-Four

Allomantic Secrets

Some people have asked me why the Lord Ruler was so careful to keep secrets about Allomancy. What would it have mattered if he let out that there were atium Mistings?

Some of the secrets offered a sizable tactical advantage. Keeping back duralumin and aluminum gave him and his Inquisitors (the only ones told about those metals, other than a few select obligators) tools that nobody knew about. Very few Inquisitors could burn duralumin (and most who did it gained the ability through the use of spikes reused from previous, dead Inquisitors—and those spikes were therefore much weaker.). However, those who did have the power could appear inordinately skilled in Allomancy, enhancing the Lord Ruler's divine reputation.

 

Edited March 7, 2023 by Treamayne
Clarity

[alder24]

13 hours ago, Mistchemist16 said:

Just wanted to correct one point: Inquistors made from Mistborn would have double zinc and brass. So, some could break in, even if the rest couldn’t. But it’s probably a combo. Inquisitors can identify Hemalurgic spikes in a kandra and some can take control even without Duralumin 

I doubt they would still be far weaker than Lerasium Mistborn. Lerasium Mistborn is still several times stronger than a regular Mistbron, and even TLR notes on metal plates said you need a group of mistings to control hemalurgic constructs like koloss. So 1.9x power would still be too little to break into a Kandra without duralumin. While several Inquisitors could do it, I doubt that is what OreSeur was talking about. After all, Kanda were the spies of TLR, so he shouldn't have a fear of being controlled by Inquisitors, even when acting against TLR, as the First Contract guards them from that.

 

[Treamayne]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

After all, Kanda were the spies of TLR, so he shouldn't have a fear of being controlled by Inquisitors, even when acting against TLR, as the First Contract guards them from that.

Exactly. It was probably much more mundane. If Lord Renoux were found to be a Kandra, then the charade falls apart. If he is fake - then the whole set-up is at risk or at least suspicious and worthy of investigation. 

Edited March 7, 2023 by Treamayne
SPAG

[alder24]

On 6.03.2023 at 11:44 PM, cometaryorbit said:

Also TLR announced himself as the Hero of Ages, the prime figure of Terris religion, so he had a chance to rewrite their doctrine - he replaced their (now gone) religious leaders. I doubt his replacement of the original Terris religion was as total/hostile* in the first century as it became later. 200 years of a new doctrine, in a world where there were probably no written records (because the Feruchemists kept it all in their copperminds) and no living tradition of the doctrine above the folk level (because of the mistwraith transformation), would easily be enough to totally overwrite what existed before.

*TLR announced himself as Hero of Ages. The Deepness did disappear; IMO it's totally possible that the Terris of that time, totally shocked by the disappearance of their leaders and scholars, accepted his claim and supported him as a source of stability in a world gone crazy.

I've found the answer, Terris people rejected him. The Hero of Ages Epigraphs ch 65

Quote

In those moments when the Lord Ruler both held the power at the Well and was feeling it drain away from him, he understood a great many things. He saw the power of Feruchemy, and rightly feared it. Many of the Terris people, he knew, would reject him as the Hero, for he didn't fulfill their prophecies well. They'd see him as a usurper who killed the Hero they sent. Which, in truth, he was.

I think, over the years, Ruin would subtly twist him and make him do terrible things to his own people. But at the beginning, I suspect his decision against them was motivated more by logic than emotion. He was about to unveil a grand power in the Mistborn.

He could have, I suppose, kept Allomancy secret and used Feruchemists as his primary warriors and assassins. However, I think he was wise to choose as he did. Feruchemists, by the nature of their powers, have a tendency toward scholarship. With their incredible memories, they would have been very difficult to control over the centuries. Indeed, they were difficult to control, even when he suppressed them. Allomancy not only provided a spectacular new ability without that drawback, it offered a mystical power he could use to bribe kings to his side.