Telsin In the End

[Elder]

Telsin was on her way to becoming a full Avatar of Autonomy, with the Shard’s power sustaining her life force and giving her insight to the future, expanding her cognitive ability.

My question is thus:  could Telsin be a cognitive shadow now?  The way Kelsier became ?  The way Rashek could have been had he so desired?  Would she want that?  Would she give up after her failure?  Or would she be ornery enough to stick around?

Edited February 24, 2023 by Elder

[lacrossedeamon]

3 hours ago, Elder said:

Telsin was on her way to becoming a full Avatar of Autonomy, with the Shard’s power sustaining her life force and giving her insight to the future, expanding her cognitive ability.

My question is thus:  could Telsin be a cognitive shadow now?  The way Kelsier became ?  The way Rashek could have been had he so desired?  Would she want that?  Would she give up after her failure?  Or would she be ornery enough to stick around?

If Autonomy withdrew all its power it's possible that Telsin actually died completely uninvested. But we also have that line from the Faceless Immortal right before they kill Edwarn about serving in another form or manner.

[Elder]

11 hours ago, lacrossedeamon said:

If Autonomy withdrew all its power it's possible that Telsin actually died completely uninvested. But we also have that line from the Faceless Immortal right before they kill Edwarn about serving in another form or manner.

I think it may have less to do with how invested you are at time of death, and to do with how much investiture expanded your mind at any given point in life.  IIRC, Rashek had the option of sticking around, despite having not held the power of Preservation in centuries and dying of compounded Atium withdrawal, or in other words, an accute investiture deficiency.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Elder

[alder24]

Rashek became a sliver because his soul expanded by holding the power of Preservation. I think it will be the same with Telsin. She was extremely invested by Autonomy, which expanded her soul. Even when the power was withdrawn, soul would remain this way, and she would be like a sliver. And I think, like Edwarn, she would now serve "on a different world". Maybe those are the men of gold and red? 

[offer]

9 hours ago, Elder said:

I think it may have less to do with how invested you are at time of death, and to do with how much investiture expanded your mind at any given point in life.  IIRC, Rashek had the option of sticking around, despite having not held the power of Preservation in centuries and dying of compounded Atium withdrawal, or in other words, an accuse investiture deficiency.

Rashek died as both a mistborn and a feruchemist so he was very invested when he died, more than Kelsier who died as only a mistborn (and a weak mistborn).

 

On the original question - It is possible that Autonomy made her a cognitive shadow (Telsin seems like the kind of person who will want to try again to take over the world) but I don`t think Autonomy is giving second chances to people, from what we heard of her you survive only by success.

[Elder]

3 minutes ago, offer said:

Rashek died as both a mistborn and a feruchemist so he was very invested when he died, more than Kelsier who died as only a mistborn (and a weak mistborn).

 

On the original question - It is possible that Autonomy made her a cognitive shadow (Telsin seems like the kind of person who will want to try again to take over the world) but I don`t think Autonomy is giving second chances to people, from what we heard of her you survive only by success.

Looking at Rashek and Vin, who both could have stayed had they chose to do so, I don’t think it has to be a deliberate gift from a Shard.  With Kelsier it was, but Preservation did that to him post Morten.  I figured it was a natural consequence of having your cognitive self expanded by the power of a Shard, even if just by a sliver of it.

[offer]

24 minutes ago, Elder said:

Looking at Rashek and Vin, who both could have stayed had they chose to do so, I don’t think it has to be a deliberate gift from a Shard.  With Kelsier it was, but Preservation did that to him post Morten.  I figured it was a natural consequence of having your cognitive self expanded by the power of a Shard, even if just by a sliver of it.

Vin could have stayed because Harmony offered her. I don`t remember that Rashek could have stayed as a cognitive shadow, from what I remember he might have been able to stay for a few minutes (as a mistborn) but when he saw Kelsier he decided to just go to the beyond immediatey.

[alder24]

30 minutes ago, offer said:

Vin could have stayed because Harmony offered her. I don`t remember that Rashek could have stayed as a cognitive shadow, from what I remember he might have been able to stay for a few minutes (as a mistborn) but when he saw Kelsier he decided to just go to the beyond immediatey.

No, Slivers don't have to pass to the Beyond. Both Rashek and Vin touched the power of Preservation and still decided to pass. Kelsier also became a Sliver after holding Preservation. I don't have english SH for quotes so Coppermind:

Quote

A Sliver is also not required to be pulled into the Beyond.^[9] However, if a Sliver should desire to go, they are able to willingly leave instead of persisting forever.^[9]

Kel asked both Rashek (or Leras) and Vin why they don't want to stay instead of going to the Beyond.

Edited February 24, 2023 by alder24

[offer]

33 minutes ago, alder24 said:

No, Slivers don't have to pass to the Beyond. Both Rashek and Vin touched the power of Preservation and still decided to pass. Kelsier also became a Sliver after holding Preservation. I don't have english SH for quotes so Coppermind:

Kel asked both Rashek (or Leras) and Vin why they don't want to stay instead of going to the Beyond.

OK. I don`t have my copy of SH available so I probably misremembered.

[Elder]

52 minutes ago, alder24 said:

No, Slivers don't have to pass to the Beyond. Both Rashek and Vin touched the power of Preservation and still decided to pass. Kelsier also became a Sliver after holding Preservation. I don't have english SH for quotes so Coppermind:

Kel asked both Rashek (or Leras) and Vin why they don't want to stay instead of going to the Beyond.

So the question is:  was Telsin enough of a Sliver?  By her own words she hadn’t yet ascended.  But her mind was already expanding.

My first impulse is that she wasn’t quite invested enough to stay permanently, but she could linger for a while, possibly long enough to find another anchor.  

[alder24]

Just now, Elder said:

So the question is:  was Telsin enough of a Sliver?  By her own words she hadn’t yet ascended.  But her mind was already expanding.

My first impulse is that she wasn’t quite invested enough to stay permanently, but she could linger for a while, possibly long enough to find another anchor.  

We don't know how much power do Avatars hold compered to the Well, we don't even know if all Avatars holds equal amount of power. FoTS (and SA) and WS spoilers:

Spoiler

Both the Sand Lords (?) and Patji are Autonomy's avatars, but Patji is enormous island, and Sand Lords are just humans, who doesn't even seem to have any abnormal powers

I guess humans are just less invested Avatars, so compared to Vin/Rashek Telsin would be far weaker, and I don't know if that would classify her as a Sliver. However I tend to believe that she was invested enough to at least become some sort of CS, as her mind and soul would be permanently affected and expanded by holding that much investiture. But then if she stated that she hadn't ascended yet (I don't remember), then I guess she didn't have enough investiture to expand to those levels. But that doesn’t mean she couldn’t be invested by Autonomy after her death, to serve on other planets. Why would she throw away useful tools?

[The Sovereign he/him]

@Elder you should really change the subject your post, this is a HUGE spoiler for anyone who hasn't read the Lost Metal.

[Elder]

6 minutes ago, The Sovereign said:

@Elder you should really change the subject your post, this is a HUGE spoiler for anyone who hasn't read the Lost Metal.

Done, though isn’t that the point of this thread being in the Spoiler Zone?

[alder24]

31 minutes ago, Elder said:

Done, though isn’t that the point of this thread being in the Spoiler Zone?

There is "no spoilers in topic titles" as those are visible from the main page.

[Elder]

5 minutes ago, alder24 said:

There is "no spoilers in topic titles" as those are visible from the main page.

Ah.  Can’t see those on the mobile version.  Makes sense.