Surge of Illumination

[theSurgeOfPhysics]

Illumination is the Surge of "Light, sound, and various waveforms". So, have we seen all the waveforms yet? I'm thinking another could be energy in the form of heat. 

[alder24]

They can create any wavelength of the electromagnetic spectrum - heat, infrared is one of them:

Spoiler

Questioner

Lightweavers are radios, aren't they? Lightwaves are radio waves? Light and-- they're the same thing, aren't they?

Brandon Sanderson

...They can do sound too, yeah. So you're saying lightweaving with illusion, can it?

Questioner

Can transmit radio waves? As in, communicate over long distances, it's one of the most important things in battles, right? In war...

Brandon Sanderson

I had someone in one of my very early books irradiate someone with Lightweaving, I think.

Questioner

Oh that's right you've got multiple kinds of Lightweaving.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah.

Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018)

 

[offer]

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

They can create any wavelength of the electromagnetic spectrum - heat, infrared is one of them:

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

Lightweavers are radios, aren't they? Lightwaves are radio waves? Light and-- they're the same thing, aren't they?

Brandon Sanderson

...They can do sound too, yeah. So you're saying lightweaving with illusion, can it?

Questioner

Can transmit radio waves? As in, communicate over long distances, it's one of the most important things in battles, right? In war...

Brandon Sanderson

I had someone in one of my very early books irradiate someone with Lightweaving, I think.

Questioner

Oh that's right you've got multiple kinds of Lightweaving.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah.

Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018)

 

Infrared is not heat, its just another wavelength of light. 

Any radiation transfers energy, so even the ilussions we saw probably do (but in a very small amount). I don`t think lightweavers could control heat by itself since it is not generally thought as a wave.

 

 

[Frustration he/him]

6 minutes ago, offer said:

Infrared is not heat, its just another wavelength of light.

@alder24 isn't entirely wrong infrared light does cause heating, in ways that other wavelengths of light do not. There's a reason we call it Thermal radiation

 

[offer]

6 minutes ago, Frustration said:

@alder24 isn't entirely wrong infrared light does cause heating, in ways that other wavelengths of light do not. There's a reason we call it Thermal radiation

 

No. It works the same as any other wavelength.

Thermal radiation is a radiation a body emitts based on its temprature. The wavelength of this radiation depends on the temprature. a body in room temprature emits thermal radiation in the IR but in other temprature the radiation will be in other wavelengths - the best example is the sun who radiates thermal radiation as visible light.

[alder24]

30 minutes ago, offer said:

Infrared is not heat, its just another wavelength of light. 

Any radiation transfers energy, so even the ilussions we saw probably do (but in a very small amount). I don`t think lightweavers could control heat by itself since it is not generally thought as a wave.

Yes, any radiation will heat a surface. But any non-black body will emit infrared radiation to transfer energy, which is heat. So it isn't that wrong to simplify it by stating that infrared generates/is heat.

17 minutes ago, offer said:

the best example is the sun who radiates thermal radiation as visible light.

That's not true. The sun emits radiation across the whole spectrum, but 49% of it is infrared. 43% is visible light. The peak intensity is close to the center wavelength of visible light. However, visible light is a very narrow band of wavelengths. Most of the total intensity is in the infrared region, which covers a bigger range of wavelengths.

[Treamayne]

45 minutes ago, offer said:

No. It works the same as any other wavelength.

Thermal radiation is a radiation a body emitts based on its temprature. The wavelength of this radiation depends on the temprature. a body in room temprature emits thermal radiation in the IR but in other temprature the radiation will be in other wavelengths - the best example is the sun who radiates thermal radiation as visible light.

Exactly. All objects reflect and/or release IR wavelengths - though hot objects emit more IR light as part of the energy transfer of heat into light. This can be seen with IR cameras - but an IR light source does not have an appreciable temperature difference from a normal light source (for things like IR flashlights and chem sticks). 

Consider:

Night Vision Goggles (amplification of visible and IR light)

Spoiler

An image on NVGs has a characteristic green tint that is caused by the light amplification method used to increase visibility. An IR light source viewed thorugh NVGs  looks the same (green tint); although, to the naked eye, the IR light would not be visible at all. 

Thermal imaging (conversion of IR wavelengths to a visible image)

Spoiler

IR cameras capture IR waveforms and convert them to a visible image. In most cases, they can be set to "white-hot" or "black hot" in user preferences since the conversion is a function of the unit, not inherenet to the IR waveforms. This is a White Hot IR camera image.

The "Predator" version of thermal imaging is generally either fiction - or an advanced feature of an IR camera that uses multiple "steps" of color assigned to different densities of IR light sources. 

Edit:

11 minutes ago, alder24 said:

So it isn't that wrong to simplify it by stating that infrared generates/is heat

But, it is wrong. It's a reversal of cause and effect. IR isn't heat and doesn't usually generate heat - it is the effect of a hot object releasing IR waveforms.

A hot object will emit IR waveforms, shining an IR flashlight on it will not heat your lunch. . . Microwaves use an entirely different process to generate heat through the excitement of water molecules affected by the microwave waveforms. 

(I say usually because any given blanket statement can have extreme exceptions - that's why we say "The exception that proves the rule")

Edited February 21, 2023 by Treamayne
Quote

[alder24]

9 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

But, it is wrong. It's a reversal of cause and effect. IR isn't heat and doesn't usually generate heat - it is the effect of a hot object releasing IR waveforms. A hot object will emit IR waveforms, shining an IR flashlight on it will not heat your lunch. . . 

You are right. That's why I called it simplification. But in the case of Lightweaver, wouldn't creating intense infrared light cause heat?

[Treamayne]

3 minutes ago, alder24 said:

You are right. That's why I called it simplification. But in the case of Lightweaver, wouldn't creating intense infrared light cause heat?

No, but in the case of a Dustbringer using Division to create heat would give off a strong IR light.

Also, it might be feasible that a Lightweaver could create a directed Microwave "light" that would definitely heat things up though water excitement.

Edited February 21, 2023 by Treamayne
Lightweaver

[alder24]

6 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

No, but in the case of a Dustbringer using Division to create heat would give off a strong IR light.

Why not? Infrared radiation excites molecules, making them vibrate faster, thus increasing the temperature of the body, which means energy was transferred changing the temperature, which is heat.

Edited February 21, 2023 by alder24

[Treamayne]

PS: My post was edited because a stray "enter" posted before I was finished typing

8 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Why not? Infrared radiation excites molecules, making them vibrate faster, thus increasing the temperature of the body, which means energy was transferred, which is heat.

That is true of any light source. It's why you can fry an insect with sunlight through a magnifying glass. It's also partially why the car interior gets hot in the summer. 

I'm not a physicist, so somebody else can do the math (or I can try later) but I can tell you this from experience - eight hours of an IR light two feet from my laptop did not appreciably change the internal working temperature of the computer. If you want IR as your "source" of heat - you'll wait just as long for that to happen as you would for regular white-light to make an object "hot."

Edit:

It's an easy relationship to confuse since Fiction (especially Fantasy) has conflated IR and Heat so often because "reasons" (see Brent Weeks' Lightbringer series as an example).

Edited February 21, 2023 by Treamayne
reasons

[offer]

39 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Why not? Infrared radiation excites molecules, making them vibrate faster, thus increasing the temperature of the body, which means energy was transferred changing the temperature, which is heat.

The amout of energy is proprtional to the wavelength so IR radiation creates less heat than visible light. 

Radiation in any wavelength will give heat - IR is not special in this and actually heats less then visible light (and even less then higher wavelength radiation).

[alder24]

37 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

That is true of any light source. It's why you can fry an insect with sunlight through a magnifying glass. It's also partially why the car interior gets hot in the summer. 

Yes, not not necessarily to the details of inner working. X-rays interact with electrons, gamma, UV and visible light as well. Microwaves cause molecules to rotate, while infrared causes molecules to vibrate more. Infrared is absorbed more strongly than microwaves, but less strongly than visible light, but infrared and microwaves penetrates more deeply then visable.

37 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

I'm not a physicist, so somebody else can do the math (or I can try later) but I can tell you this from experience - eight hours of an IR light two feet from my laptop did not appreciably change the internal working temperature of the computer. If you want IR as your "source" of heat - you'll wait just as long for that to happen as you would for regular white-light to make an object "hot."

We are talking about creating very intense infrared light, not a flashlight. Every type of wavelength from radio to visible light can be intense enough to kill. But longer wavelengths carry less energy than shorter wavelengths, and longer wavelengths passes through a body more easily. And I'm still talking about Lightweaver who can create as intense light across whole spectrum. If he create intense infrared it will heat up his target, the same with any other wavelength.

2 minutes ago, offer said:

The amout of energy is proprtional to the wavelength so IR radiation creates less heat than visible light. 

If you take into account light scattering, then some visible light is scattered by air, dust particles etc, while infrared passes through it more easily. Emissivity, absorption, scattering etc are also playing a major role in heat, not just energy.

18 minutes ago, offer said:

Radiation in any wavelength will give heat - IR is not special in this and actually heats less then visible light (and even less then higher wavelength radiation).

I've already admitted that calling infrared heat is wrong. Heat is transferred by many ways, and across the whole spectrum. I was then thinking about typical, low/medium temperature, black body radiation, which emits in infrared the most, giving me temporary blindness to call infrared heat.

[offer]

7 minutes ago, alder24 said:

If you take into account light scattering, then some visible light is scattered by air, dust particles etc, while infrared passes through it more easily. Emissivity, absorption, scattering etc are also playing a major role in heat, not just energy.

44 minutes ago, offer said:

I might be wrong about this but I think that those factors have big effect only when looking at the sun radiation going through the all atmosphere and are negligeble In the case of radiating something few meters away.

But this is not really relevant as we both agree that lightweavers can heat things by creating a lot of radiation.

[alder24]

1 minute ago, offer said:

I might be wrong about this but I think that those factors have big effect only when looking at the sun radiation going through the all atmosphere and are negligeble In the case of radiating something few meters away.

Yeah, you're probably right, it doesn't matter for our Lightweaver unless he wants to hit a target lots of kilometers away or something.