Is Gavilar good or bad?

[Beodrakis]

Throughout the Stormlight Archive, Gavilar does a bunch of different things, he unifies Alethkar, but also brings back the voidbringers and the desolations. Although he does this to restart the knights radiant, you have to wonder whether all of that bloodshed was necessary. There is also the fact that he looks up to the Sunmaker, who is genocidal tyrant, and yet is still looked up to. I'm just curious what your opinions are.

[Werewolff Studios]

Gavilar's a fascinating example of how a character changes through narrative outlook and bias. The first time we see him is in Szeth's flashback, where he comes across as a noble warrior and a respected king (considering the efforts his people made to pursue the Parshendi). However, with each book, we realize he's a lot more self-serving and narcissistic then first perceived, and that each character colours him very differently. 

It's fascinating how, throughout the prologues, it becomes easier and easier to understand why he was assassinated. He had good intentions, perhaps, but was arrogant to think he could meddle with larger forces without consequence. 

Edited November 29, 2022 by Werewolff Studios

[Mr. Misting]

Yes, this is why Gavilar is fascinating. Each character shows another view of his actions and character, and gives another perspective on who Gavilar is.

So I'm thinking it through in my head and I've decided that Gavilar is the storming personification of cancerous anal discharge. I think the only positive things I have to say about Gavilar are from Dalinar who hero worships him. Though I love Dalinar, both him and Gavilar are the products of Alethi society, a culture that I fundamentally disagree with.

Most of Gavilar's good qualities I can think off are based off of leadership of his kingdom, the lands of which he massacred so he could claim domain. He is ambitious, which I guess could be a good quality to you Slytherin and he cares about his family in the loosest sense.

(Most of my evidence for the following paragraph is from the stormlight 5 prologue so slight disclaimer) Gavilar is a conniving jerk who controls the people around him for his own personal gain. In true Machiavellian nature, he throws crafted insults at Navani and Dalinar that are meant to hurt them where it hurts most. He cares nothing for his family, only for his precious legacy. He is a power hungry conqueror that hoarded his secrets and played with gods as if he was ever capable. 

Now, I'm not trying to hate on Gavilar for no reason. I like nuanced discussion and I am not trying to offend anyone. And this is just what is so interesting about Gavilar, I am just one more perspective on his character. 

I think that it is hard to truly define what good and bad are when it comes to characters. Everyone is a shade of gray. When I judge someone I try to take into account both the actions and the motives and usually that makes it very hard to see where the line is for undefined terms such as "good" and "bad".

But in this case, it is my opinion that Gavilar is a bad person. After examining the facts I see no redeeming quality for Gavilar.

Edited November 29, 2022 by Ookla the Kobold

[Stormtide_Leviathan]

He's bad. Unifying alethkar is not a point in his favor, he's a conqueror who wants the world to bend to him. He thinks he should be the most important person in the world and has the social power to make other people act like it. And he's a horrible husband too, as the icing on the cake. Frankly I was on board from the moment I read "Szeth son-son Vallano, Truthless of Shinovar, wore white on the day he was to kill a king". I'm always down for regicide and not a single thing I learned about Gavilar since has made me reconsider that opinion (especially not his own POV chapter).

Edited November 29, 2022 by Stormtide_Leviathan

[Beodrakis]

16 hours ago, Stormtide_Leviathan said:

He's bad. Unifying alethkar is not a point in his favor, he's a conqueror who wants the world to bend to him. He thinks he should be the most important person in the world and has the social power to make other people act like it. And he's a horrible husband too, as the icing on the cake. Frankly I was on board from the moment I read "Szeth son-son Vallano, Truthless of Shinovar, wore white on the day he was to kill a king". I'm always down for regicide and not a single thing I learned about Gavilar since has made me reconsider that opinion (especially not his own POV chapter).

Although unifying Alethkar might make him seem like a conqueror, he did it so that they would stand strong against the voidbringers, he knew that if Alethkar was splintered, they would fall, and I feel like he might have even planned for his own death, knowing that it would spark a war, and driving the Parshendi to become voidbringers. All of this was to reinstate the knights radiant, which is a noble goal. So I feel like "no redeeming factors" is a little too harsh.

[+robardin]

20 hours ago, Ookla the Kobold said:

Yes, this is why Gavilar is fascinating. Each character shows another view of his actions and character, and gives another perspective on who Gavilar is.

So I'm thinking it through in my head and I've decided that Gavilar is the storming personification of cancerous anal discharge. I think the only positive things I have to say about Gavilar are from Dalinar who hero worships him. Though I love Dalinar, both him and Gavilar are the products of Alethi society, a culture that I fundamentally disagree with.

Most of Gavilar's good qualities I can think off are based off of leadership of his kingdom, the lands of which he massacred so he could claim domain. He is ambitious, which I guess could be a good quality to you Slytherin and he cares about his family in the loosest sense.

(Most of my evidence for the following paragraph is from the stormlight 5 prologue so slight disclaimer) Gavilar is a conniving jerk who controls the people around him for his own personal gain. In true Machiavellian nature, he throws crafted insults at Navani and Dalinar that are meant to hurt them where it hurts most. He cares nothing for his family, only for his precious legacy. He is a power hungry conqueror that hoarded his secrets and played with gods as if he was ever capable. 

Now, I'm not trying to hate on Gavilar for no reason. I like nuanced discussion and I am not trying to offend anyone. And this is just what is so interesting about Gavilar, I am just one more perspective on his character. 

I think that it is hard to truly define what good and bad are when it comes to characters. Everyone is a shade of gray. When I judge someone I try to take into account both the actions and the motives and usually that makes it very hard to see where the line is for undefined terms such as "good" and "bad".

But in this case, it is my opinion that Gavilar is a bad person. After examining the facts I see no redeeming quality for Gavilar.

I am pretty sure this is something he grew/changed into. His overriding concern for his "legacy", his egomaniacal lust for power, his cold and calculated cruelty...

Sounds like what Shallan's father Lin Davar devolved into, Yeah? Which has been hinted at being the influence of one of the Unmade, both by the mention of Shallan seeing that his eyes seemed to have a red glow at some point, plus this WoB:

Quote

Questioner

Was Shallan's family, during her childhood, being influenced by an Unmade?

Brandon Sanderson

Um, yes.

Questioner

Was it the corrupting--

Brandon Sanderson

I'll RAFO that, but yes, there is some external influence there. 

JordanCon 2018 (April 22, 2018)

 

[Rg2045]

Good or bad? I would say ambitious is a better word. In his Society he is the perfect soldier king and general. You could say yes there. 
to his family he was a king first, father second. And that might be seen as bad but remember that in other Sanderson book’s people always are struggling to balance the two. So as someone interested in his legacy it makes sense to put the nation first.

(Making Dalinar a useless drunk during times of peace is an action I’ll defend to the death. We all know that Dalinar is a monster, who didn’t care for kingdom building just warmongering. Even he admitted that he would have conscripted all the males or slaughter the towns/cities he conquered. If he became king) (with navani it was cutting off, cold but understandable. And being good at hurting people it makes sense that the arguments got like that) 

bring on the desolations is a bit of a stretch. They were coming, With the everstorm as the workaround. Also he was doing it because he was literally getting visions from his “god” that the enemy is coming. Seeing radiants, and the power they held. It makes sense that he would try to make it happen to hasen the return of the spren. The faster the spren returned the faster he can use them to fight the great battle. And if that wasn’t available then he had anti light to bring into the war. Can you imagine, radiants with a spear with anti light in the head, true killing/Turing insane, the fused. They wouldn’t have the ability/capacity to get their own. 

So is gavilar a good or bad person. I will say neither he was an ambitious general king, 

That was preparing his people to end a 7,000 year war by any means necessary