Pagerunner he/him Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 I've been negligent in participating in discussion so far, so I'll lead off with my latest observations and then drop in all the stuff from prior chapters. Chapters 14-15 Hey, there's our Hemalurgy chart appearance. But not quite, no more info on linchpin spikes. There have been a few comments about linchpin spikes in the preview chapters, so maybe we'll finally get the detailed Hemalurgy chart poster to go along with the book. Strange reactions with a lot of ettmetal in one place – I guess it’s gonna start punching through to Cognitive and Spiritual realms. Disagreements between VenDell and Harmony as to Bleeder’s madness. Hopefully another loose end for the book to tidy up. Dividing harmonium – we see Towerlight get split, why not harmonium? Trellium… it isn’t anti-Investiture, is it? The explosion and the response, they are reacting in ways that mists and atium notably didn't. The mists did pull away from Vin when she was spiked, but I don't recall atium driving back the mists on its own. So this more severe reaction (both pushing away spikes and in causing the explosion) seem very much more like Rhythm of War's anti-Investiture experiments. Chapters 1-2 Old metal door that got forgotten through "bureaucratic nonsense" and the Terriswoman vice governor pushing for the vote - certainly seems to me like there's something more nefarious going on behind the scenes. “Anything Varlance accomplished… was probably her doing.” I'm betting she's Set. How does Wax Push on a medallion? Shouldn't it be too Invested for that? Chapters 3-4 Well, we've got Nazh and what are apparently "hellguns" flying around. I guess this doesn't bode well for his Stonward aspirations. I'm still not quite sold on this gang stuff. It seems like a really bad cover to pretend to be normal criminals while you're actually a different kind of criminal. Just draws police attention to yourself. I'm wondering if this is bait of some sort. New Allomantic grenades. All power goes into the box; it’s not resonating with a power, it’s just absorbing and delaying the manifestation. But how does it actually work? And what does the ettmetal actually do? The grenades now seem different than when they were called "primer cubes." Now, they're batteries for an Investiture manifestation, but before they would tie in an ettmetal power source to a particular kind of manifestation. “Just like the Lord Ruler when he’d lost the Bands of Mourning centuries earlier.” Here we go with the casual inaccuracies. Chapters 5-8 The earring. “You’ll need to make a second, once the proper metal arrives.” Is it actually from Harmony? Or is this Trell reaching out to Wax? “These brick walls were so old. Who had built them, centuries ago?” As an author, why does Brandon have Marasi ask this question? Could they be from an unexpected source, like ancient Trell followers? Trell from White Sand had plenty of time to Ascend to an Avatar before the time of the Final Empire. Eyes glowing red, Trell choosing avatars. The Cycle isn’t an avatar yet; so what’s going on with the red eyes? Is there a Trellish spren or something Investing him? Is it a new kind of compounding (which is why he wasn’t worried about running out of strength), powering Feruchemy directly from Trell? “A shot to the head should stop a Bloodmaker from healing.” Didn’t Miles take a shot to the head in AoL? Is it getting retconned to have been unusual, now? Radiants don’t have a problem healing from head wounds, either. “The ash comes again. The world will fall to it. You will get what you deserve, and all will wither beneath a cloud of blackness and a blanket of burned bodies made ash. Your end. Your end comes. Either in ash, or at the hands of the men of gold and red. Gold and—” I think there are two things going on here. Gold and red is Trell. Ashfall is Discord. Trell is fighting Harmony to take over the place, Discord wants the world and its inhabitants to meet their rightful end that they escaped three hundred years ago. I've always been partial to Discord theories, but I couldn't reconcile them with Trell coming from White Sand. Two separate catastrophes - Harmony's losing it and Trell is coming in. “One day, the men of gold and red, bearers of the final metal, will come to you. And you will be ruled by them.” Trell's group doesn’t want destruction under ashfalls, they want to rule the world. Chapter 9 No ability to maintain medallions. That’s refilling, right? My thoughts have always been that it needs to involve compounding. Not refilling nicrosil, but refilling heat and Connection and such. Can't store it quick enough the old-fashioned way. “Why weren’t there Feruchemical soldiers in the Malwish army with extremely heightened strength, mental speed, or other dangerous Feruchemical talents? Why weren’t there Allomancer medallions? The more they learned, the more certain Wax became that there was a secret there, indicating the medallions were not as effective or as versatile as the Malwish would like people to believe.” Questions I’ve wondered about. They’re obviously possible, since the Bands do all that and more. Did the medallion creation devices come from a Fullborn (read: Kelsier), and he only gave them the ‘templates’ to create a limited number, so to speak? That’s why they want the Bands back, so they can make any medallions they want? Small bathroom. Is it a child bathroom as a cultural thing? Or are there little people among the Southerners? Chapters 10-11 Smuggling into Elendel. Trying to sneak people in, would be my guess. They’re gonna try to overthrow Elendel. Not just break away with rebellions. A typical Sanderson super-escalation at the end of a trilogy. “And is this all?” Is this a hint of Marasi freezing herself and showing up in the Era 3 books? “Why would Harmony tell him to make a second earring, presumably out of Trell’s metal?” Because the letter didn’t come from Harmony. From the way MeLaan talks, she’s not the kandra on Roshar in SA. Chapters 12-13 “first kandra to go out there long-term, with an official mission.” So the kandra on Roshar isn’t sent by Harmony. Malli, Felt’s wife, is still my best guess; the couple is just traveling and vibing. Wayne's breakup. He's gonna become an immortal worldhopper, isn't he... “God metals were the source of the mists back in anteverdant days.” What? Spectroscopy is very reminiscent of RoW experiments with Light. Which are both just… very odd. Trellish Light through a prism would have an extra large red band. Or is it infrared? It looks like harmonium... how similar to harmonium? Weird spectrum like harmonium, or exactly (anti-Investiture) like harmonium? “Harmonium wasn’t affected by acids” now what on earth does that mean? The reaction of alkali metals with water is because water is an acid with a pH of 7. More acidic solutions will react more violently. Why does harmonium behave this way? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+robardin he/him Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 Regarding "what haven't the Southerners let on about their technology": not only must there be medallions for Feruchemy... The technology allows for it, inasmuch as the nicrosil ring is already a metalmind, and stores unsealed Investiture granting a power and there's no reason to think it'd be limited to Allomancy... ...but the "primer cubes", or as Marasi and Wax continue to think of them even in the early chapters of TLM, "Allomantic grenades", must also be able to replicate Feruchemy, even if the Basinfolk haven't figured out how to do that yet (i.e., even though Wax in partcular has handled it numerous times). Either the same primer cubes can be used similarly - like if Wax were to fill an ironmind while touching the cube - or there are separate cubes for Feruchemy. Why? Because in BoM, when Edwarn tries to take off in the recovered (and fully functional) airship left by the Hunters at the Temple of the Sovereign, before Wax stops them from doing so, he (Suit) is told that unlike the Malwish ship they'd been studying, Quote "...The machinery is operational, sheltered as it was from the weather. Sir... it's amazing. You can feel the energy pulsing off of that metal. We did have to send men out to unclog the fans - a few of the Coinshots helped - and we have them moving now. Fed is down below, priming the weight-changing machinery with her Feruchemy, to lighten the ship. That should be the last step!" So not only are there medallions for F-iron for crew and passengers to store their weight while onboard an airship, the ship itself has a primer-driven (cube-and-ettmetal-powered and sustained amplification) mechanism for doing the same to the ship as a whole. I suspect it's a separate kind of primer, because knowing Wax, he surely would have tried to "replicate" Feruchemy with the cube they've already got in the intervening years, and they still call it an "Allomantic grenade". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitkay Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 8 minutes ago, Pagerunner said: “A shot to the head should stop a Bloodmaker from healing.” Didn’t Miles take a shot to the head in AoL? Is it getting retconned to have been unusual, now? Radiants don’t have a problem healing from head wounds, either. A Feruchemist has to actively tap a metalmind to heal from it, so if the brain is destroyed, they cannot heal. Miles was a Compounder, so he was constantly burning his goldminds using Allomancy rather than Feruchemy, meaning it was an ability that was essentially always active. 12 minutes ago, Pagerunner said: Small bathroom. Is it a child bathroom as a cultural thing? Or are there little people among the Southerners? I think it's just a small bathroom because it's an airship. I wouldn't read into it. 15 minutes ago, Pagerunner said: “first kandra to go out there long-term, with an official mission.” So the kandra on Roshar isn’t sent by Harmony. Malli, Felt’s wife, is still my best guess; the couple is just traveling and vibing. We have a WoB that seems to confirm that the kandra on Roshar is an agent of Harmony. 14 minutes ago, Pagerunner said: “God metals were the source of the mists back in anteverdant days.” What? The mists in Era 1 were gaseous lerasium. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+robardin he/him Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 17 minutes ago, hitkay said: A Feruchemist has to actively tap a metalmind to heal from it, so if the brain is destroyed, they cannot heal. Miles was a Compounder, so he was constantly burning his goldminds using Allomancy rather than Feruchemy, meaning it was an ability that was essentially always active. I think it's just a small bathroom because it's an airship. I wouldn't read into it. We have a WoB that seems to confirm that the kandra on Roshar is an agent of Harmony. The mists in Era 1 were gaseous lerasium. I agree that Miles was a special case of "always healing" and so was healing almost as quickly as the damage was done to him; but burning a goldmind would give him a burst of healing power, not "continual" healing. He stored the "excess" healing into one of his several goldminds, that were also spiked into his body (or even completely internal). He was "always healing" by dint of always tapping gold, similar to how Rashek was continually tapping a Compounding-filled atiummind to stay alive for hundreds of years beyond his natural span. A bullet to the head would not "have time" to settle in to disrupt the mental process of Miles' tapping a metalmind because he was already tapping it, but a normal Bloodmaker, if killed "instantly" or rendered immediately unconscious, would be unable to tap gold quickly enough as a reaction, and thus would die. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Child of Hodor Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 Brandon's new favorite trope is lab explosions involving investiture in his books. I'm going to guess this doesn't involve anti-investiture and he's deliberately putting a similar scene to the black sphere explosion in here as a misdirection. 1 hour ago, Pagerunner said: Chapters 12-13 “first kandra to go out there long-term, with an official mission.” So the kandra on Roshar isn’t sent by Harmony. Malli, Felt’s wife, is still my best guess; the couple is just traveling and vibing. Wayne's breakup. He's gonna become an immortal worldhopper, isn't he... I assumed the same thing, the Kandra already on Roshar wasn't sent by Harmony. Either sent by Lord Ruler or snuck off on their own (somehow). Please no Worldhopping Wayne (you're probably right :\) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requiem17 she/her Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 Quote Strange reactions with a lot of ettmetal in one place – I guess it’s gonna start punching through to Cognitive and Spiritual realms. Ahhhh that makes sense; I second this as the secret. Maybe even more foreshadowing that we're seeing a perpendicularity this book. Also, I'm (fake) angry that we spent all of last week theorizing what the reaction was going to be and didn't really get the answer this week! Argh! Big explosion is confirmed at least. I suppose it's good to know it's not an easy explosion to create. Where's the Set going to get all this electricity to create an extinction-level explosion? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitkay Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 (edited) On another note, I'd like to remind us all of this WoB. It seems relevant. Quote Questioner Could [Sazed] also bring back lerasium beads, if he wanted to? Brandon Sanderson It would be within his power to do so, yes. Edited October 31, 2022 by hitkay 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashbringer he/him Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 Ghostbloods! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requiem17 she/her Posted October 31, 2022 Report Share Posted October 31, 2022 (edited) Hmm I also wonder if we're seeing hints Wayne may have a future relationship with one of Shallan's squires, perhaps one who joins the Ghostbloods post SA5. Edit: Embarrassing new tinfoil-- Wayne/Beryl & she's the one with the long dark hair who leaves Marasi the letter. Edited November 1, 2022 by Requiem17 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proletariat Posted November 1, 2022 Report Share Posted November 1, 2022 The kandra's statement about ettmetal being impossible to divide while Harmony remains Harmony while the team uses trellium to blow ettmetal into its separate pieces seems to be pretty heavy foreshadowing. I suspect creating two separate metals isn't the only thing that'll happen in the next Wax chapter. The other thing is that we've only ever seen Nightblood physically impact a pure godmetal before (which even shocked a herald), but we've seen pure godmetals interact before like the Fused's raysium edged spears clashing with shardblades. Does this mean the end-negative element of investiture in hemalurgy is a key part of the reaction here, or further confirmation that the intent behind this godmetal has a specific pairing with Harmony's? Also I reckon this is hinting at creating a perpendicularity: Quote Supposedly, you couldn’t put a large concentration of ettmetal in one place, otherwise it caused strange reactions—though Allik didn’t know specifics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offer Posted November 1, 2022 Report Share Posted November 1, 2022 5 hours ago, Proletariat said: The other thing is that we've only ever seen Nightblood physically impact a pure godmetal before (which even shocked a herald), but we've seen pure godmetals interact before like the Fused's raysium edged spears clashing with shardblades. Does this mean the end-negative element of investiture in hemalurgy is a key part of the reaction here, or further confirmation that the intent behind this godmetal has a specific pairing with Harmony's? It seems that the intent behind Trellium is not only "opposed" to Harmony but to all other investiture, as the spike is reppeled from all other investiture. It seems to be another hint that Trell is Autonomy. In addition I find it interesting that Trellium can be used to detect investiture which is something that untill now the main way to do was by white sand. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitkay Posted November 1, 2022 Report Share Posted November 1, 2022 Just now, offer said: It seems that the intent behind Trellium is not only "opposed" to Harmony but to all other investiture, as the spike is reppeled from all other investiture. It seems to be another hint that Trell is Autonomy. We've only seen trellium interact with Harmony's Investiture so far. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offer Posted November 1, 2022 Report Share Posted November 1, 2022 Just now, hitkay said: We've only seen trellium interact with Harmony's Investiture so far. Ohh right! I forgot that the interaction with hemulargy and allomancy are intercations with Ruin and Preservation which are part of Harmony. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Bzhydack he/him Posted November 3, 2022 Report Share Posted November 3, 2022 On 1.11.2022 at 3:59 AM, Proletariat said: The other thing is that we've only ever seen Nightblood physically impact a pure godmetal before (which even shocked a herald), but we've seen pure godmetals interact before like the Fused's raysium edged spears clashing with shardblades. Technicly we didnt see Raisium interact with Shardblades, because Fused Spears are mostly made from Aluminium, and have only Raisium Core. On 31.10.2022 at 5:59 PM, Pagerunner said: Dividing harmonium – we see Towerlight get split, why not harmonium? On 1.11.2022 at 3:59 AM, Proletariat said: The kandra's statement about ettmetal being impossible to divide while Harmony remains Harmony while the team uses trellium to blow ettmetal into its separate pieces seems to be pretty heavy foreshadowing. I suspect creating two separate metals isn't the only thing that'll happen in the next Wax chapter. We know it is possible, but not with normal physics. VenDell is wrong. Quote Skyward Houston signing (Nov. 19, 2018) #2 Share Copy Play/PausQuestioner If I were to alloy atium and lerasium, would I get harmonium? Or is harmonium different after the Shards combined? Brandon Sanderson It's different after the Shards combined. Questioner If I was to take harmonium and separate it out through distillation, would I get lerasium and atium or something that functions similarly? Brandon Sanderson No, you would-- It actually has become a different-- Questioner Can't be split? Brandon Sanderson Yeah. I mean, you could find a way, but you're not going to get it through normal, mechanical means. I was hoped that Scadrians trials to separate Harmonium would push them into develpment of cyclotrons and nuclear discoveries, but experiments with godmetals are interesting also. On 31.10.2022 at 5:59 PM, Pagerunner said: How does Wax Push on a medallion? Shouldn't it be too Invested for that? Nah, Wax was able to Push metalminds, even full ones, it just reqiures more force. Medalions are not that Invested. On 31.10.2022 at 5:59 PM, Pagerunner said: Eyes glowing red, Trell choosing avatars. The Cycle isn’t an avatar yet; so what’s going on with the red eyes? Is there a Trellish spren or something Investing him? Is it a new kind of compounding (which is why he wasn’t worried about running out of strength), powering Feruchemy directly from Trell? I think Trell's "Faceless Immortal" is indeed some form of Cognitive Shadow, able to posess people. We see one of them here. It will make them very similar to Fused, but I think piercing with Trellium Spike is required to work. Boon and curse - pierced Trell follower would gain ability to draw power dirrectly from Trell, but also would open himself to possesion. On 31.10.2022 at 5:59 PM, Pagerunner said: “first kandra to go out there long-term, with an official mission.” So the kandra on Roshar isn’t sent by Harmony. Malli, Felt’s wife, is still my best guess; the couple is just traveling and vibing. Simply earlier Kandra were sent by Harmony wifh UNOFFICIAL Missions ;-) On 31.10.2022 at 5:59 PM, Pagerunner said: New Allomantic grenades. All power goes into the box; it’s not resonating with a power, it’s just absorbing and delaying the manifestation. But how does it actually work? And what does the ettmetal actually do? The grenades now seem different than when they were called "primer cubes." Now, they're batteries for an Investiture manifestation, but before they would tie in an ettmetal power source to a particular kind of manifestation. They are simply different devices. Why assume Ettmetal have only one magical property? Why assume Southerners cant invent nev devices during those six years? On 31.10.2022 at 5:59 PM, Pagerunner said: Spectroscopy is very reminiscent of RoW experiments with Light. Which are both just… very odd. Trellish Light through a prism would have an extra large red band. Or is it infrared? It looks like harmonium... how similar to harmonium? Weird spectrum like harmonium, or exactly (anti-Investiture) like harmonium? Wax would mention that Trellium have the same spectrum as Harmonium. Is like harmonium, because it is wierd, unnatural, whatever. But is not the same. On 31.10.2022 at 5:59 PM, Pagerunner said: Small bathroom. Is it a child bathroom as a cultural thing? Or are there little people among the Southerners? On 31.10.2022 at 6:18 PM, hitkay said: I think it's just a small bathroom because it's an airship. I wouldn't read into it. Exactly this. Is small because of limited space in Airship. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormtide_Leviathan Posted November 5, 2022 Report Share Posted November 5, 2022 On 10/31/2022 at 0:59 PM, Pagerunner said: Well, we've got Nazh and what are apparently "hellguns" flying around. I guess this doesn't bode well for his Stonward aspirations. Stormlight spoilers Spoiler We also know hoid has a spren but manages to make it here for mistborn era 2, so I wouldn't count it out yet. On 10/31/2022 at 0:59 PM, Pagerunner said: Eyes glowing red, Trell choosing avatars. The Cycle isn’t an avatar yet; so what’s going on with the red eyes? Is there a Trellish spren or something Investing him? Is it a new kind of compounding (which is why he wasn’t worried about running out of strength), powering Feruchemy directly from Trell? Oh I like this theory! I think this makes a lot of sense, Trell fueling feruchemy somehow. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmcclure7 Posted November 7, 2022 Report Share Posted November 7, 2022 On 10/31/2022 at 2:02 PM, Child of Hodor said: Brandon's new favorite trope is lab explosions involving investiture in his books. I'm going to guess this doesn't involve anti-investiture and he's deliberately putting a similar scene to the black sphere explosion in here as a misdirection. I assumed the same thing, the Kandra already on Roshar wasn't sent by Harmony. Either sent by Lord Ruler or snuck off on their own (somehow). Please no Worldhopping Wayne (you're probably right :\) Why not? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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