What changed the future in oathbringer?

[Stormtide_Leviathan]

When burning atium or electrum, you only see one branch of the future unless your opponent is also burning atium or electrum, because since you're both operating on future knowledge, that makes the future unclear. Anything could happen. The same is true for Renarin's future sight. It's why he's a dark spot to odium (and even taravangian if i remember correctly?). This seems to be a pretty consistent mechanism across the cosmere. Even when Vin defeated zane without using atium, she did so operating off future knowledge that he (involuntarily) gave her, similar to how not only is Renarin himself a dark spot but so is everyone around him, since he can influence their decisions.

So why, then, were some of Renarin's visions wrong in oathbringer? Was there someone operating off or influenced by future knowledge? The two specifically I'm thinking of are his vision that Jasnah would kill him and that Dalinar would succumb to odium. The Dalinar one is simple enough- he was influenced by Cultivation. I'm a bit surprised that Renarin's vision didn't take this into account but, especially if he had the vision of Dalinar falling before Dalinar's memories returned to him, it's not a ridiculous assumption. But why did Jasnah not kill him? Where's the futuresight influence here? Is it from Renarin himself? Was her mind changed by the fact that Renarin was expecting this to happen?

[Mr. Misting he/him]

12 minutes ago, Stormtide_Leviathan said:

So why, then, were some of Renarin's visions wrong in oathbringer? Was there someone operating off or influenced by future knowledge? The two specifically I'm thinking of are his vision that Jasnah would kill him and that Dalinar would succumb to odium. The Dalinar one is simple enough- he was influenced by Cultivation. I'm a bit surprised that Renarin's vision didn't take this into account but, especially if he had the vision of Dalinar falling before Dalinar's memories returned to him, it's not a ridiculous assumption. But why did Jasnah not kill him? Where's the futuresight influence here? Is it from Renarin himself? Was her mind changed by the fact that Renarin was expecting this to happen?

I think that in the occurrence of Jasnah about to kill Renarin it just shows how the future sight isn't perfect, at least for Renarin. There was a high possibility that Jasnah would kill him but he couldn't see every outcome. And when it comes to Dalinar I think you are right, Cultavation's influence messed it up. But he could still technically succumb to Odium's side in the contest of champions.

[Rg2045]

For jasnah I think it’s as you said. Renarin changed the future by accepting his death and giving jasnah permission. This reminded her that he is the same kid. The only one who understood her.

Ivory even comments that they didn’t know why but it was right(funny because humans change their minds but this is shown as a strength here) 

[Rabbit Unmade she/her]

18 hours ago, Stormtide_Leviathan said:

When burning atium or electrum, you only see one branch of the future unless your opponent is also burning atium or electrum, because since you're both operating on future knowledge, that makes the future unclear. Anything could happen. The same is true for Renarin's future sight. It's why he's a dark spot to odium (and even taravangian if i remember correctly?). This seems to be a pretty consistent mechanism across the cosmere. Even when Vin defeated zane without using atium, she did so operating off future knowledge that he (involuntarily) gave her, similar to how not only is Renarin himself a dark spot but so is everyone around him, since he can influence their decisions.

So why, then, were some of Renarin's visions wrong in oathbringer? Was there someone operating off or influenced by future knowledge? The two specifically I'm thinking of are his vision that Jasnah would kill him and that Dalinar would succumb to odium. The Dalinar one is simple enough- he was influenced by Cultivation. I'm a bit surprised that Renarin's vision didn't take this into account but, especially if he had the vision of Dalinar falling before Dalinar's memories returned to him, it's not a ridiculous assumption. But why did Jasnah not kill him? Where's the futuresight influence here? Is it from Renarin himself? Was her mind changed by the fact that Renarin was expecting this to happen?

I think it‘s because Renarin is seeing the same future as Odium, and Odium sees all possible futures, so it was because Jasnah was most likely to kill Renarin, and Dalinar was probably going to become Odium‘s champion. But, of course, just because it‘s the most likely dosen‘t mean it‘s sure to happen, and Jasnah didn‘t kill Renarin and Dalinar didn‘t become Odium‘s champion.

[danex he/him]

i think the renarin instance is mechanically the same as the zane example. Renarin unintentionally gave jasnah information about the future through his own actions, which then changed it.

[Rabbit Unmade she/her]

1 minute ago, dannnnnnex said:

i think the renarin instance is mechanically the same as the zane example. Renarin unintentionally gave jasnah information about the future through his own actions, which then changed it.

Maybe a combination of the two?

[Frustration he/him]

All future sight in the Cosmere is imperfect. There doesn't need to be a reason for it to be wrong.