Yumiya Posted August 3, 2022 Report Share Posted August 3, 2022 This is a bizarre one. What if Tanavast is not dead, just splintered. Here is the scenario. Cultivation and Honor are working to stop Rayse. Cultivation, using fore-sight, sees a possible way to defeat Rayse once and for all. This plot requires Rayse to feel over confident so that he could be maneuvered into a vulnerable position. The best way would for Honor to disappear, splinter (with the potential to reform after the plan is successful). Cultivation's Vessel though, is in love with Honor's Vessel, so she wants his mind to survive. So they plan to splinter Honor, creating a sliver with Tanavast's mind and putting him into a gem stone. The rest of the power is shoved off on the Stormfather. They have foreseen (or potentially encouraged) the plans of the Heralds to modify the oathpact. They mange to get the gem stone containg Tanavast's mind to Taln and convince him to swallow it, allowing Tanavast to fuse with Taln before his death. Now Tanavast is safely hidden away on Braize, the last place Rayse would look for him. Additionally, the extra investiture that he adds to Taln keeps the oathpact strong enough with just one of the Heralds. Fast forward to present day. Tanavast sees the fused being smuggled off Braize and decides that the time of his return is near. So Tanavast (not Taln) chooses to return to Roshar. This means Taln did not actually break, despite his return. But, both Tanavast and Taln are crazy from how long they have been tortured, though Tanavast to a lesser extent. Taln's madness keeps Tanavast suppressed most of the time. So, Taln is reduced to repeating his mantra and Tanavast only manifests once in a while. His appearance is generally triggered by something. The use of his surges seems to draw him out (Shallans Lightweaving, the proximity to his own Perpendicularity). I know there are probably a thousand holes in this, but it is a fun thought experiment. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormtide_Leviathan Posted August 3, 2022 Report Share Posted August 3, 2022 4 minutes ago, Yumiya said: His appearance is generally triggered by something. The use of his surges seems to draw him out (Shallans Lightweaving, the proximity to his own Perpendicularity). We've seen other heralds' madness be temporarily alleviated by radiants (in rhythm of war and edgedancer), it doesn't seem to be something unique to Taln. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That1Cellist he/him Posted August 3, 2022 Report Share Posted August 3, 2022 This is interesting, and while I do think that it is possible that Tanavast survived the splintering of honor, I do not think it likely that he would reside within Taln. First of all, how would that even work? Second, Taln has shown really no irregularities in his madness compared to the other Heralds. I find it much more likely that if Tanavast is still around, he is a cognitive shadow who could be directing some things from behind the scenes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yumiya Posted August 3, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2022 28 minutes ago, That1Cellist said: First of all, how would that even work? Same way Amaram swallows a gem with Yelig-nar in it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That1Cellist he/him Posted August 3, 2022 Report Share Posted August 3, 2022 Just now, Yumiya said: Same way Amaram swallows a gem with Yelig-nar in it. Isn't that Yelig-nar specific? How would Tanavast get inside a rock in the physical realm, and then somehow it be a special rock that causes a bond, and then have it eaten by out of all people a herald? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yumiya Posted August 3, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2022 I did say that this has a thousand holes in it... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That1Cellist he/him Posted August 3, 2022 Report Share Posted August 3, 2022 I am sorry. I didn't mean to be rude. My apologies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yumiya Posted August 3, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2022 22 minutes ago, That1Cellist said: I am sorry. I didn't mean to be rude. My apologies. No worries. You weren't. I suppose we can try to fill in one of those holes. 51 minutes ago, That1Cellist said: How would Tanavast get inside a rock in the physical realm, and then somehow it be a special rock that causes a bond, and then have it eaten by out of all people a herald? Ok, so the special rock idea is stupid in this case. It may be possible for other spren like the unmade to learn Yelig-nar's technique, but is not applicable here. So what could be going on (assuming the rest of the scenario is true) Maybe Tanavast splinters Honor, keeping enough of the investiture to make him a cognitive shadow. He already has a Connection to the Heralds. We also know that cognitive shadows like Kelsier can form a Nahel bond (WOB). Maybe Tanavast strengthened that Connection and formed a Nahel bond with Naln when the Herald dies, hitching a ride to Braise that way. Since we also have WOB stating that the bond basically is filling the cracks in the spirit web (which after so much torture, Naln is sure to have a TON), the two have essentially melded completely. One body, two minds. Tanavast comes to the fore when something sparks his interest. Quote yulerule (Paraphrased) I also asked about the connection between the spren and Surgebinder, such that the spren turns into what the Surgebinder wants. Like in Edgedancer, [Wyndle] turns into a bar of metal and into a Shardfork. Wyndle himself isn't "in tune" with Lift, so his turning into something that she needs with no prior warning... Brandon Sanderson Yeah, they actually mix. When the bonding is happening, what's happening is that the gaps in the souls are being filled with the spren's <essence>. And they are actually melding into one yulerule *inaudible* Brandon Sanderson And they are actually melding into one individual *inaudible*. yulerule <And the minds are separate?> Brandon Sanderson Yeah, mhm. Arcanum Unbounded Hoboken signing (Dec. 3, 2016) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cometaryorbit Posted August 3, 2022 Report Share Posted August 3, 2022 I believe Tanavast's Cognitive Shadow merged with the Stormfather (making him a Sliver as well as a Splinter). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Unmade she/her Posted August 4, 2022 Report Share Posted August 4, 2022 19 hours ago, cometaryorbit said: I believe Tanavast's Cognitive Shadow merged with the Stormfather (making him a Sliver as well as a Splinter). But wouldn’t the Stormfather want to tell Dalinar about all of this? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yumiya Posted August 4, 2022 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2022 1 hour ago, Rabbit Unmade said: But wouldn’t the Stormfather want to tell Dalinar about all of this? The stormfather is pretty cagey and might be able to lie (that is still up for debate). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Unmade she/her Posted August 4, 2022 Report Share Posted August 4, 2022 (edited) Oh, he can lie. He lied to Gavilar about not being able to lie, (Might of been Ishar, of course so…) but I still feel like the Stormfather wants to beat Odium enough that he might tell them, but I don’t know. Edited August 4, 2022 by Rabbit Unmade 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cometaryorbit Posted August 4, 2022 Report Share Posted August 4, 2022 7 hours ago, Rabbit Unmade said: But wouldn’t the Stormfather want to tell Dalinar about all of this? What I was saying is that Tanavast's Cognitive Shadow isn't available to be merged with Taln, since it's already merged with the Stormfather. If you're asking why the SF isn't more helpful if he knows everything Tanavast knew... well, he's also (and originally) a spren, and is only coming to think like a human slowly, through the bond. Tanavast-Honor was apparently pretty warped by human standards near the end, too, due to both Shard Intent (caring only about oaths being kept and not their content) and the drawn-out process of Shard death-- so his Cognitive Shadow wouldn't necessarily help the Stormfather think like a normal (not warped by a Shard) human. At the end of WoR the Stormfather was basically "ok, we're doomed now, might as well wipe everything out with a giant highstorm". He's honestly not very helpful. Or even terribly consistent.. in OB he says basically "oh sure the contest of champions will work! It was Honor's idea" . OK so why were you so convinced there was no hope just recently? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Unmade she/her Posted August 4, 2022 Report Share Posted August 4, 2022 I suppose… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isilel Posted August 5, 2022 Report Share Posted August 5, 2022 On 3 August 2022 at 6:22 PM, Yumiya said: Same way Amaram swallows a gem with Yelig-nar in it. Honor was splintered 2 millenia _after_ Taln had been abandoned on Braize, though, so that wouldn't work. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.