Hoid is not the benevolent being you thought he was

[WellsThinks]

Theory: Hoid is not as good as you thought he was! Hoid has been roaming the Cosmere since the beginning of time, encouraging the main characters usually by way of storytelling and using his skills as an Awakener. Loyal fans will know that he was one of the group that shattered Adonalsium into the 16 Shards. He was offered a chance to become the Vessel of one of the Shards. However, he chose not to and in that way, gained something even more important than power: freedom. He was not bound by the rules of Shards and was free to influence events in the Cosmere as much as he liked. One of the first hints at his master plan

comes early in Stormlight, in the Way of Kings, in chapter 54 on page 933.

"... 'Adonalsium'

Dalinar frowned more deeply. 'What?'

Wit searched his face. 'Have you ever heard the term, Dalinar?'"

This short exchange gives context for what Hoid says soon after:

"'Ado-what?'

'Nothing,' Wit said. He seemed preoccupied, unlike his normal self. 'Nonsense. Balderdash. Figgldygrak. Isn't it odd that gibberish words are often the sounds of other words, cut up and dismembered, then stitched into something like them–yet wholly unlike them at the same time?'

Dalinar frowned.

'I wonder if you could do that to a man. Pull him apart, emotion by emotion, bit by bit, bloody chunk by bloody chunk. Then combine them back together into something else, like a Dysian Amian.'..."

This hints at Hoid's secret plan: To kill all the current Shards and assemble them back together into a new Adonalsium, with himself holding the power. Hoid had planned this all since the death of Adonalsium.

 

I hope everyone enjoys this theory

[Rg2045]

I like the theory unsure how viable it is because he doesn’t like to be limited by the rules of power of a god. But then again maybe a mini god?

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

Do people think Hoid is good? I don't think I've ever had that impression of him personally

He told Dalinar that he would let Roshar burn to achieve his goals... like that's not good by any stretch of the imagination

[Returned]

30 minutes ago, Green Hoodie Mistborn said:

Do people think Hoid is good? I don't think I've ever had that impression of him personally

He told Dalinar that he would let Roshar burn to achieve his goals... like that's not good by any stretch of the imagination

I think that many look at his usual practice of helping stories' protagonists (and not villains, that we've seen) as aligning him with the "good" guys.

[Leuthie]

47 minutes ago, Green Hoodie Mistborn said:

Do people think Hoid is good? I don't think I've ever had that impression of him personally

He told Dalinar that he would let Roshar burn to achieve his goals... like that's not good by any stretch of the imagination

It's not good for Roshar, but if saving Roshar destroys the Cosmere, then watching Roshar burn seems to be the hard but good thing to do.

As for whether Hoid is good or bad: Too binary. He has his own motivations that we're not fully aware of. Those motivations seem to be compatible with the motivations of the protagonists of the story pieces that Brandon has been telling. This paints him as a protagonist thus far, but there's a 100% chance this won't always be the case. I can't imagine that the character that Brandon uses to tie us to his greater story is going to be a villain in the end.

As for the theory: Hoid seems like he's positioning himself for something in opposition of at least 2 different Cosmere aware factions. This something is bigger than the concerns of individual worlds (hence the "watch Roshar burn" comment), but requires individual worlds to remain in-tact (hence why he's helping chosen factions on each planet). I have no answers here, but I've posited the idea that Hoid would end up holding Adonalsium (reluctantly) before, mainly because I see Brandon setting up the reformed Adonalsium as a hands-off story teller rather than an active entity in the world. I posit that Hoid doesn't really want to be an active participant. He wants to tell stories. So this idea that he wants to "destroy all Shards and reform them to get power" goes against his nature.

[cometaryorbit]

I think Hoid has grand scale goals and is very ancient, has seen a lot and has become hardened - he's willing to accept huge costs to see those grand scale goals achieved.

But he is by WoB "genuinely sympathetic to the individual". The way we see him cheering up Kaladin - "you will be warm again" is real, not just because Kaladins important to his plans.

There might also be a difference between letting Roshar burn and causing it. IE Hoid won't save Roshar at the cost of longer term problems for the greater cosmere, but would he (hypothetically given Shard level power) actually be able to make the decision to destroy it himself? Not sure.

[Green Hoodie Mistborn]

2 hours ago, Returned said:

I think that many look at his usual practice of helping stories' protagonists (and not villains, that we've seen) as aligning him with the "good" guys.

He worked with Skaze in the 10th-anniversary edition scene!

2 hours ago, Leuthie said:

It's not good for Roshar, but if saving Roshar destroys the Cosmere, then watching Roshar burn seems to be the hard but good thing to do.

As for whether Hoid is good or bad: Too binary. He has his own motivations that we're not fully aware of. Those motivations seem to be compatible with the motivations of the protagonists of the story pieces that Brandon has been telling. This paints him as a protagonist thus far, but there's a 100% chance this won't always be the case. I can't imagine that the character that Brandon uses to tie us to his greater story is going to be a villain in the end.

You're positing the burning of Roshar as the trolly problem, so... there are differing answers to that question depending on your moral philosophy. Hoid certainly takes a Utilitarian approach to issues, but that doesn't make his choices "good" per se. Taravangian made similar Utilitarian choices and most people see him as a Villain. He also worked with the protagonists of the SA to a point while doing what he thought he needs/ed to do to save the most people possible.

Hoid's relationships are not all cordial with protagonists. He is openly hostile with Kelsier, and Vin wouldn't meet him in WoA. Other Cosmere groups and Shards are openly hunting him or hostile to him. One of the Shards that we mostly attribute positive goals/attributes, Endowment/Edgli, openly dislikes him. He abandoned Sigzil to the bridge crews... etc. etc.

If we judge people based on the damage wrought through, or lack thereof, in their relationships, there are very few Cosmere-wide that we see where he leaves them better than he found them. Shallan is a (the most) notable exception. But I think in her, he sees something of himself as a young lightweaver in training, and that colors his interactions/responses to her. His cheering of Kaladin I've always seen as self-serving because Odium wanted Kaladin, therefore Hoid opposed it the best ways he knew how.

I don't think he's capital E, evil at all, but I've never assumed or read him as a "good guy".

An anti-hero is the best way to describe him, but only in the sense that he is a protagonist of the overall Cosmere arc rather than an antagonist. There are many Cosmere-wide who see him as a villain. It's only our glances into his alliances or contacts with our beloved protagonists that we think positive thoughts of him at all IMO. 

[HOID WANTS INSTANT NOODLES]

This is incedibly insulting. I do nothing but help you people and what do you do, call me a bad guy. Spanky says you all are liars. Anyways Kelsier isnt exactly a "good guy" and the shards that I activley work against are all evil shards. not wanting odium to have kaladin is still a good desire. Vin is super paranoid anyways. And sigzil ran away from mr not the other way around.