Frustration Posted June 9, 2022 Posted June 9, 2022 Just now, The Wandering Wizard said: After the lost metal comes out? Yep
EmulatonStromenkiin he/him Posted June 9, 2022 Posted June 9, 2022 43 minutes ago, Frustration said: But it doesn't split. When two atium burners go up against each other they see hundreds if not thousands of possible outcomes, a force user would only have the one their opponent was activly going to do. this is because they see all the possibilities, and from what I understand, Jedi see the most probably possibility. 4 minutes ago, Frustration said: We have a 73 page argument that we're going to start back up in November, this is nothing. The fullborn V radiant?
Frustration Posted June 9, 2022 Posted June 9, 2022 1 minute ago, EmulatonStromenkiin said: The fullborn V radiant? Scadrian vs Rosharan magics post Rhythm of War. 1 minute ago, EmulatonStromenkiin said: this is because they see all the possibilities, and from what I understand, Jedi see the most probably possibility. Reguardless of why Atium will not work, but Jedi future sight will.
Quivil Posted June 9, 2022 Posted June 9, 2022 36 minutes ago, Frustration said: Jedi suppress all emotion, doing that would help them. Have you ever felt the empty I'm referring to here? I'm referring to the kind of empty that's Kaladin's depression, that's dull and heavy and blank, that's nothing, that gives you no reason to care about anything, that makes you want to just hide in a corner and cry. If the Jedi suppressed their emotions like that, nothing would happen. They wouldn't care about anything. The entire Star Wars would be "the Sith are doing evil stuff, but the Jedi are too depressed to care, let alone do anything about it." The Jedi are allowed to have emotions, they're just not supposed to let their feelings control them. I looked it up.
Frustration Posted June 9, 2022 Posted June 9, 2022 1 minute ago, Tani said: Have you ever felt the empty I'm referring to here? I'm referring to the kind of empty that's Kaladin's depression, that's dull and heavy and blank, that's nothing, that gives you no reason to care about anything, that makes you want to just hide in a corner and cry. If the Jedi suppressed their emotions like that, nothing would happen. They wouldn't care about anything. The entire Star Wars would be "the Sith are doing evil stuff, but the Jedi are too depressed to care, let alone do anything about it." The Jedi are allowed to have emotions, they're just not supposed to let their feelings control them. I looked it up. That is the ancient jedi order you're looking at there. The order at the time of the clone wars taught it's members to supress all emotion.
EmulatonStromenkiin he/him Posted June 9, 2022 Posted June 9, 2022 8 minutes ago, Frustration said: Scadrian vs Rosharan magics post Rhythm of War. Reguardless of why Atium will not work, but Jedi future sight will. Well, If jedi see only the most probable possibility, then they will likely be able to beat even a 2 split atium shadow.
NameIess Posted June 9, 2022 Posted June 9, 2022 22 minutes ago, Frustration said: What? Atium is rendedred useless by even small amounts of opposing future sight, so it is gone. However the Mistborn still has the intent to do something, and their future will therefore still be readable. But their specific intent does change. Therefore, since jedi's futuresight doesn't change, Atium will overwhelm it. People from Star Wars might be unable to change their future, but in the Cosmere, the future is not set, therefore it would change. Either Atium and force precognition would cancel each other out, or force precognition wouldn't adapt and would get overwhelmed. 22 minutes ago, Frustration said: Or he wasn't thinking "Hey, what if I randomly jumped down this disposal shaft right here?" Because most people won't think to try something that dumb. I was actually talking about old Obi-Wan vs. Maul, where Obi-Wan just cut Maul's lightsaber in half. Qui-Gon could've done that. 22 minutes ago, Frustration said: Then Jedi count as invested individuals and force resistant weapons count as investiture resistant, force sensitive future sight blocks atium but is still useable on its own etc. And copperclouds don't block cosmere future sight, why would they be more powerful against a magic system that doesn't even follow the same underlaying principles? Jedi and kyber crystals would be invested. Force-resistant materials probably wouldn't be investiture-resistant, unless you think aluminum should block the force. A-copper would block foresight because the underlying principle of the force is that the force flows through everything. If someone uses copper to dull their presence in the force, which it almost certainly would, then that should block or hamper futuresight. As for Jedi seeing the most probably possibility, that's literally exactly how Atium works, only it can see the effects of other futuresight and adapts to it, albeit in a way that makes it mostly useless.
Frustration Posted June 9, 2022 Posted June 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, Nameless said: But their specific intent does change. Therefore, since jedi's futuresight doesn't change, Atium will overwhelm it. People from Star Wars might be unable to change their future, but in the Cosmere, the future is not set, therefore it would change. Either Atium and force precognition would cancel each other out, or force precognition wouldn't adapt and would get overwhelmed. Or it would run exclusivly on what the Mistborn was going to do reguardless of whether they were burning atium or not. Even when buring Atium Vin still is going to do something, if she changes midway through what she is doing she is still going to do something, and the force knows what that something is. 4 minutes ago, Nameless said: I was actually talking about old Obi-Wan vs. Maul, where Obi-Wan just cut Maul's lightsaber in half. Qui-Gon could've done that. Oh, my bad. Obi-Wan is a much better fighter that Qui-Gon, even if Qui-Gon could see that outcome he wasn't skilled enough to make it happen. 5 minutes ago, Nameless said: Jedi and kyber crystals would be invested. Force-resistant materials probably wouldn't be investiture-resistant, unless you think aluminum should block the force. I don't think the systems should interact, or be forced to play by any rules other than their own. Jedi wouldn't count as invested, and the force would not count as investiture. 7 minutes ago, Nameless said: A-copper would block foresight because the underlying principle of the force is that the force flows through everything. If someone uses copper to dull their presence in the force, which it almost certainly would, then that should block or hamper futuresight. I'd say it would prevent them from being sensed at a distance, but it's not going to prevent jedi foresight.
NameIess Posted June 9, 2022 Posted June 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, Frustration said: Or it would run exclusivly on what the Mistborn was going to do reguardless of whether they were burning atium or not. Even when buring Atium Vin still is going to do something, if she changes midway through what she is doing she is still going to do something, and the force knows what that something is. How does the force know what someone outside of the force is going to do? Particularly someone who can change their fate, as that’s how the Cosmere works.
Frustration Posted June 9, 2022 Posted June 9, 2022 Just now, Nameless said: How does the force know what someone outside of the force is going to do? Particularly someone who can change their fate, as that’s how the Cosmere works. The force isn't omnipotent even in Star Wars.
NameIess Posted June 9, 2022 Posted June 9, 2022 Just now, Frustration said: The force isn't omnipotent even in Star Wars. So force precognition doesn’t work on Mistborn. Additionally, if Jedi don’t count as invested, the Mistborn can simply rip the trace metals out of their bloodstream. No more red blood cells for the Jedi!
Frustration Posted June 9, 2022 Posted June 9, 2022 1 minute ago, Nameless said: So force precognition doesn’t work on Mistborn. It works on other individuals, even people from outside the Star Wars Galaxy, as seen by the Yuuzhan Vong, though they also were resistant, but that's probably one of the many wierd things about the Vong rather than a trait unto themselves. I'm just saying that choice and free will are still things in Star Wars. 5 minutes ago, Nameless said: Additionally, if Jedi don’t count as invested, the Mistborn can simply rip the trace metals out of their bloodstream. No more red blood cells for the Jedi! No mistborn has ever had the strength to affect trace metals.
NameIess Posted June 9, 2022 Posted June 9, 2022 1 minute ago, Frustration said: It works on other individuals, even people from outside the Star Wars Galaxy, as seen by the Yuuzhan Vong, though they also were resistant, but that's probably one of the many wierd things about the Vong rather than a trait unto themselves. I'm just saying that choice and free will are still things in Star Wars. Don't jedi struggle to predict droids? Isn't a reason that the jedi were unable to detect the clones betrayal because the chips made them more robotic and less human? A Mistborn would be completely cut off from the force. 2 minutes ago, Frustration said: No mistborn has ever had the strength to affect trace metals. That shouldn't be a strength thing though, right? More of a perception problem. Still, not being invested means the jedi will have zero resistance to soothing and rioting. Rioting a jedi's hatred, sorrow, fear, etc would be super effective, particularly considering the Clone Wars era's stupid jedi philosophy of avoiding emotions altogether. And a Mistborn can use any metal embedded in the jedi's body against them. Tooth fillings, earings, robotic parts, all incredibly vulnerable to a Mistborn's attacks.
Frustration Posted June 9, 2022 Posted June 9, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Nameless said: Don't jedi struggle to predict droids? Isn't a reason that the jedi were unable to detect the clones betrayal because the chips made them more robotic and less human? Droids aren't alive, and thus are not part of the living force, which makes them impossible to sense, however they can still bre predicted and affected by the force. 5 minutes ago, Nameless said: A Mistborn would be completely cut off from the force. The Yuuzhan Vong where cut off from the force but they were still affected by it. 5 minutes ago, Nameless said: That shouldn't be a strength thing though, right? More of a perception problem. No there is definatly a strength element to it, Inquisitors could only see metal, but still couldn't push on trace metals. 5 minutes ago, Nameless said: Still, not being invested means the jedi will have zero resistance to soothing and rioting. Rioting a jedi's hatred, sorrow, fear, etc would be super effective, particularly considering the Clone Wars era's stupid jedi philosophy of avoiding emotions altogether. Zero resistance yes, but they still have a lifetime of training to resist emotional manipulation of all kinds. 5 minutes ago, Nameless said: And a Mistborn can use any metal embedded in the jedi's body against them. Tooth fillings, earings, robotic parts, all incredibly vulnerable to a Mistborn's attacks. That is true, but that assumes that the Jedi has those. Edited June 9, 2022 by Frustration
NameIess Posted June 9, 2022 Posted June 9, 2022 5 minutes ago, Frustration said: No there is definatly a strength element to it, Inquisitors could only see metal, but still couldn't push on trace metals. Fair. 1 minute ago, Frustration said: Zero resistance yes, but they still have a lifetime of training to resist emotional manipulation of all kinds. Not really. More they've been taught to suppress their emotions, something which, with the extremes of rioting, will be nigh impossible. Especially while someone's trying to kill you. A jedi master like Yoda could pull it off, but 90% of the jedi knights? No way. 6 minutes ago, Frustration said: That is true, but that assumes that the Jedi has those. Have you seen how many jedi lose limbs?
Frustration Posted June 9, 2022 Posted June 9, 2022 1 minute ago, Nameless said: Not really. More they've been taught to suppress their emotions, something which, with the extremes of rioting, will be nigh impossible. Especially while someone's trying to kill you. A jedi master like Yoda could pull it off, but 90% of the jedi knights? No way. Considering that only a few of the Jedi ever really seem to struggle with it, and those that do where "Too old" when they began training I have to disagree. 2 minutes ago, Nameless said: Have you seen how many jedi lose limbs? Anakin, Dooku, Windu, Luke, Maul, and that's all I can think of.
NameIess Posted June 9, 2022 Posted June 9, 2022 Just now, Frustration said: Considering that only a few of the Jedi ever really seem to struggle with it, and those that do where "Too old" when they began training I have to disagree. How many jedi has Grievious killed? Dozens? Yeah, they're not that great at controlling emotions. Otherwise they'd just use telekinesis to ragdoll him. 1 minute ago, Frustration said: Anakin, Dooku, Windu, Luke, Maul, and that's all I can think of. Well, that's pretty high rates, as far as main characters go.
Frustration Posted June 9, 2022 Posted June 9, 2022 Just now, Nameless said: How many jedi has Grievious killed? Dozens? Yeah, they're not that great at controlling emotions. Otherwise they'd just use telekinesis to ragdoll him. Add that to the very large pile of plot holes from Star Wars. 1 minute ago, Nameless said: Well, that's pretty high rates, as far as main characters go. Main characters, true, but I'd argue that it's closer to what we should see in most action stories.
NameIess Posted June 9, 2022 Posted June 9, 2022 Just now, Frustration said: Add that to the very large pile of plot holes from Star Wars. Actually, it's not. Grevious keeps the jedi off-balance and afraid. He doesn't allow them enough time to use the force. In A-zinc, a Mistborn has the perfect weapon for this. Most jedi are pathetic pushovers compared to the main characters and jedi masters.
EmulatonStromenkiin he/him Posted June 9, 2022 Posted June 9, 2022 43 minutes ago, Frustration said: No mistborn has ever had the strength to affect trace metals. TLR did.
Frustration Posted June 9, 2022 Posted June 9, 2022 Just now, EmulatonStromenkiin said: TLR did. Was he mistborn?
EmulatonStromenkiin he/him Posted June 9, 2022 Posted June 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, Frustration said: Was he mistborn? yes. He was a fullborn, and by the requirements of that, he was a mistborn.
Frustration Posted June 9, 2022 Posted June 9, 2022 Just now, EmulatonStromenkiin said: yes. He was a fullborn, and by the requirements of that, he was a mistborn. No, Mistborn have no feruchemical abilities.
EmulatonStromenkiin he/him Posted June 9, 2022 Posted June 9, 2022 Just now, Frustration said: No, Mistborn have no feruchemical abilities. the definition of Fullborn is one who has all 16 Feruchemical abilities, and all 16 Allomantic abilities.
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