Most Baseless Parshendi Theory Ever

[Windrunner]

Well chicken was obviously thinking outside the box when he wrote this theory! I like the fact that it explains why the Parshendi are so honorable. But I do see one potential problem. What can Gavilar the Parshendi do that Gavilar the King of Alethkar cannot? He has all the armies of th most warlike nation on Roshar under his command. If the Parshendi want the Voidbringers defeated they don't have to invoke the Alethi's wrath to get them prepared for war. The Alethi are already in a state of constant war between highprinces. All the Parshendi have to do is give the Alethi a heads up about the Voidbringers and then they'd be good, wouldn't they?If the Parshendi wanted Gavilar to lead them, all they had to do was wait. The treaty was going to fold the Shattered Plains into Alethkar as a subject nation. This might not have an answer because if lack of information, so this theory could still be correct.

I hope it doesn't sound like I'm bashing this theory or anything. On the contrary I rather like it. I'm just hoping that someone else can help me think of a Parshendi motivation for wanting Gavilar to be one of them, that I haven't thought about.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Windrunner

[Vortaan]

Well chicken was obviously thinking outside the box when he wrote this theory! I like the fact that it explains why the Parshendi are so honorable. But I do see one potential problem. What can Gavilar the Parshendi do that Gavilar the King of Alethkar cannot? He has all the armies of th most warlike nation on Roshar under his command. If the Parshendi want the Voidbringers defeated they don't have to invoke the Alethi's wrath to get them prepared for war. The Alethi are already in a state of constant war between highprinces. All the Parshendi have to do is give the Alethi a heads up about the Voidbringers and then they'd be good, wouldn't they?If the Parshendi wanted Gavilar to lead them, all they had to do was wait. The treaty was going to fold the Shattered Plains into Alethkar as a subject nation. This might not have an answer because if lack of information, so this theory could still be correct.

I hope it doesn't sound like I'm bashing this theory or anything. On the contrary I rather like it. I'm just hoping that someone else can help me think of a Parshendi motivation for wanting Gavilar to be one of them, that I haven't thought about.

Gavilar might have knowledge of Voidbinding that the Parshendi don't. Also, Parshendi might have knowledge of the Knights Radiant and Surgebinding that Gavilar needs, but can't be taught. Or thirdly, they might need him to know that Tanavast is dead, something they can't tell him without seeming like heretics... but could probably use his resurrection as proof of after he became Parshendi.

[lyssie95]

Hang on a second.

The words were thickly accented, and Dalinar's mind nearly dismissed them. But here, up close, Dalinar realized something. He understood what was being said. The accent was nearly impenetrable, but the words were in Alethi.

Paperback, pg 1172

If it *is* Gavilar, why does he have an accent?

Edited March 7, 2012 by lyssie95

[Connerjade]

Because although it is still him, his biology has drastically changed? Possibly including his tongue. Also, because although he speaks Alethi natively, he probably hasn't used it for the last... 15+ years.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Connerjade

[Guest Zucchini]

This makes sense, especially if their body just keep getting reused. After all, don't the bridgemen just assume that the corpses in the chasms get washed away by highstorm floods? What if they just come back to life and walk away?

Theres something sacred about stone...I think they leave the bodies touching the stone, and the shattered plains re-absorbs the soul into the collective, or something like that.

Also, I think the shardplate guy that said, "It is you. I found you at last." is from Dalinars past thats been erased from his memory by the NightMothers curse. If it WAS Gavilar instead of him saying "you", he probably would of named him by name.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Zucchini

[Odium's_Shard]

Theres something sacred about stone...I think they leave the bodies touching the stone, and the shattered plains re-absorbs the soul into the collective, or something like that.

Also, I think the shardplate guy that said, "It is you. I found you at last." is from Dalinars past thats been erased from his memory by the NightMothers curse. If it WAS Gavilar instead of him saying "you", he probably would of named him by name.

Removing the 'you' would mean that in English it wouldn't make sense for him to be speaking to Dalinar. If he said "It is Dalinar", it sounds as if he is speaking to the assembled Parshendi. This is just me being finicky, however, and I agree with your post in general.

It would have been greater evidence that it was Gavilar if the Shardbearer would have said "It is you, Dalinar. I found you at last.".

[Guest Zucchini]

Removing the 'you' would mean that in English it wouldn't make sense for him to be speaking to Dalinar. If he said "It is Dalinar", it sounds as if he is speaking to the assembled Parshendi. This is just me being finicky, however, and I agree with your post in general.

It would have been greater evidence that it was Gavilar if the Shardbearer would have said "It is you, Dalinar. I found you at last.".

Ding, Ding, Ding. "Dalinar! I can't believe I've found you! I've heard my ex-wife has been stalking you!"

[Odium's_Shard]

Ding, Ding, Ding. "Dalinar! I can't believe I've found you! I've heard my ex-wife has been stalking you!"

Haha. Dalinar would have a most problematic reunion with his 'dead' brother. Considering how well he lost his last wife, I wouldn't be too surprised if he accidentally left the previous wife of the King of Alethkar somewhere and never found her again. Gavilar wouldn't be too pleased, Parshendi/Dawnsinger/Voidbringer or not.

[Guest Zucchini]

Haha. Dalinar would have a most problematic reunion with his 'dead' brother. Considering how well he lost his last wife, I wouldn't be too surprised if he accidentally left the previous wife of the King of Alethkar somewhere and never found her again. Gavilar wouldn't be too pleased, Parshendi/Dawnsinger/Voidbringer or not.

OMG I just thought of something:

Like Orson Scott Card and the piggies, perhaps they assassinated Galiver to "honor" him. Why? It has something to do with the codes. And heres the shocker...what if EVERYONE had knowledge of something that happened, and then Dalinars forgotton wife went to the Nightmother and it was HER blessing ans curse to be forgotton by everyone.

I assumed Dalinar's amnesia was his own by product of him visiting the NightMother, but its not, maybe its his WIFES!

[2dark]

I don't think Parshendi are reborned/ressurected KR or reborned anything for that matter. To many fine details that differenciate their culture from the alethi are within the book.

But I'm also not in the bandwagon of Jasnah that they are evil, for the simple fact we encounter when our favourite bridge crew is on chasm duty. They see parshendi corpses, and Kaladin does the scavenging of it during which he finds fine crafted blades with engraved heralds (+ 1 exra herald he couldn't recognize if I remember correctly, that made me remember it...unfortunately I don't have hard cover near me).

If parshendi were really Odiums tools, I doubt the would have heralds in such high essteem in their culture as to engrave 'em into their weapons.

Fun theory though

[Odium's_Shard]

^ Your missing the point!

The reason their culture is different from the Alethi is because the Parshendi are the GOOD GUYS! Th Dawnsingers, come ablaze. The description of 'Voidbringer' could refer to another thing, and the Parshendi are here to redeem us, not destroy us. It is the Alethi and their 'culture' that corrupts the world. The Parshendi are trying to put it right. By assassinating Gavilar because he was a good guy, they brought him to their side to see the light, as well as weaken the Alethi 'monarchy' so that they could reinstate a republic so as to better prepare them for the coming EVERSTORM! The Final Desolation! Odium is UPON us!

'Child of Tanavast! Child of honor! Child of one long since departed...'

'Three of sixteen once ruled, but now the Broken One reigns!'

But your right, we don't exactly have much proof, and this post was more of a tease. Hope its true though. It would just be... a powerful message, and a strong plotline.

[Connerjade]

Also, this does jive with the "the magic systems are all essentially the same" statement. Returned, Elantrians, semi hemulurgy, when you die, if the shard likes you, you become AWESOME.

[2dark]

Also, this does jive with the "the magic systems are all essentially the same" statement. Returned, Elantrians, semi hemulurgy, when you die, if the shard likes you, you become AWESOME.

I agree, but I kinda hope this is not the case, Brandon so far has created such magical and plot diversity within "same" comsere that I would feel it just a bit "recycled" if this comes true.

And the other thing, anyone has hard copy with themselves to wuote the section I was talking about ^^, I m suprised no one made a parshendi theory based on those engravements on weapon Kaladin found on dead parshendi? Something there is itching me and I just can't put my finger on what it is (beside the fact that barbarian hive minded Parshendi share love for heralds with alethi of course:))

[Jasper]

A very interesting theory; I did not (and probably would not have) thought of this on my own when I read the book earlier this school year (So in September/October I believe). I will have to re-read TWoK when I complete the WoT series and The Hunger Games books.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Jasper

[Dros]

Odium is UPON us!

'Child of Tanavast! Child of honor! Child of one long since departed...'

'Three of sixteen once ruled, but now the Broken One reigns!'

I still don't fully buy that Odium is the "Enemy" or the "Broken One" or that the Parshendi are the Voidbringers. Identifying the true enemies so soon in the series just seems so...unBrandonish. Maybe they're up against whatever shattered Andolasium or something similar. Or...maybe I'm completely wrong and he meant to give it all away because the fight with Odium and the Voidbringers is a subplot for something even bigger that will be revealed later on! Oh well, guess I'll RAFO.

And I really don't think the Parshendi are resurrected Parshmen or Gavilar. Is it possible the Parshendi Shardplate bearer saw Dalinar in one the visions he experienced that are similar to Dalinar's? Brandon has seemed to go out of his way to show some honorable traits among the Parshendi...that are completely contradicted by assasinating kings and mowing down defenseless bridgemen with arrows. It's kinda confusing actually.

[Rayonn]

I tend to agree with the 'Parshendi are of Honor' theory. As for why they assassinated Gavilar--the resurrection idea could explain it, but I'm withholding my judgement on that theory until we have more evidence. It's a cool idea, though, and there's nothing to rule it out. Zucchini gets an upvote for the pequenino comparison, which I think is probably quite apt.

Also, perhaps Jasnah is correct that Parshmen turn into Voidbringers, but Parshendi are something completely different.

(Maybe Parshendi ---> Parshmen ---> Voidbringers. Or maybe Parshmen turn into either Voidbringers or Dawnsingers=Parshendi) Or maybe 'the Enemy' (the sender of the Voidbringers) is not Odium, and now that the 'most terrible and dangerous of the Sixteen' has arrived, he's going to unite with Honor's forces to repel the True Desolation. (Ok, that's doubtful.)

(EDIT: Added the bit about Dawnsingers and Voidbringers being alternate imago forms of Parshmen)

Edited March 14, 2012 by Rayonn

[Odium's_Shard]

Brandon has seemed to go out of his way to show some honorable traits among the Parshendi...that are completely contradicted by assasinating kings and mowing down defenseless bridgemen with arrows. It's kinda confusing actually.

This... is a good point. How can they so care for their own dead, and yet be so heartless to those who cannot protect themselves. It is very un-KR. After all, Kaladin's Oath was 'I will protect those who cannot protect themselves.'. And yet somehow, I get the sad feeling that this includes the Parshendi. Perhaps he will eventually (with Dalinar) get to their fortress in the middle of the Shattered Plains, and realise what they really are, then ally with them, or save them from the Alethi forces, and then help them to defeat Odium. But as we've seen in other Brandon works (like Mistborn), the enemies, like Ruin, aren't so clearcut. After all, Ruin had as much as purpose as Preservation, and some ways it was Prservation who was the 'bad' one, in so cheating on his arrangement with Ruin.

[Zarepath]

This... is a good point. How can they so care for their own dead, and yet be so heartless to those who cannot protect themselves.

I think you'll find this behavior in most human beings, especially in war--we act incredibly honorably in certain spheres, and incredibly dishonorably in other spheres. Perhaps we're reading too much into their honorable behavior, and we probably do the same thing with characters as we try to line them into certain KR groups. People are complicated, even Brandon's characters, and they don't all necessarily have to line up perfectly into one caste or another, imo.

[lil_literalist]

I'm not going to argue against the theory as a whole, but there are a few parts that are incorrect. First of all, the Parshendi themselves use Plate and Blade. There probably aren't many shardbearers, but we know from several lines that they have them. King Gavilar almost witnessed a Parshendi summoning his Blade, so they probably don't want to destroy the shards, and wouldn't view them as evil. Also, Dalinar won several shards, but he gave them to Elkohar, for him to distribute as he saw fit. So there's now humans wearing shards taken from Parshendi shardbearers. And Dalinar speculated that the Parshendi also tried to win their own shards in battle.

As for the rest of the theory, go nuts. Since it's baseless, there's not really much to argue against it.

[blackmagic3]

I hate to be seen disagreeing on my first post but i would like to adress two things that you guys have been talking about.

First of all the fact that the Parshendi shard bearer was looking at Dalinar's face could have a much more plausable reason. Dalinar was there when the Parshendi were discovered so it isn't hard to believe that some of them would remember his face. Also the fact that in a Shallan POV Jasnah tells her that Gavilar saw a Parshendi thrust his hand out as if to summon a shard blade. It could that same shard bearer who recongises Dalinar because he saw Dalinar during those first days or recognised him through his resembelance to Gavilar. As for the speaking Alethi -come on- the Parshendi were talking Alethi within the first few days of their meeting with the Gavilar's party.

The second point is my theory on why Jasnah is right and the Parshmen and maybe the Parshendi are the voidbringers or potential voidbringers. For this we must go back to Kalak POV he saw red, orange and violet blood on the battle field after the desolation. I am pretty sure that Parshendi blood is orange and assuming that also includes parshmen, their blood was there in the aftermath of the desolation but Kalak doesn't see any Parshendi or Parshmen. Also in the book its is implied that human kind fought the voidbringer in the desolations, Parshmen and Parshendi are not humans.

Ergo the shard-bearer recognised Dalinar from the intial expedition into Natanatan or through his resmebalance to Dalinar and it is very likely that Pasrhendi/Parshmen were the enemies in the previous desolation.

I'm sorry for being such a naysayer and ruining your fun on the topic, but i would have bothered me if I hadn't said something.

[Dros]

Welcome to the boards! Don't worry about disagreeing; it would be a preety boring forum if everyone agreed on everything.

First of all the fact that the Parshendi shard bearer was looking at Dalinar's face could have a much more plausable reason. Dalinar was there when the Parshendi were discovered so it isn't hard to believe that some of them would remember his face. Also the fact that in a Shallan POV Jasnah tells her that Gavilar saw a Parshendi thrust his hand out as if to summon a shard blade. It could that same shard bearer who recongises Dalinar because he saw Dalinar during those first days or recognised him through his resembelance to Gavilar. As for the speaking Alethi -come on- the Parshendi were talking Alethi within the first few days of their meeting with the Gavilar's party.

That's definitely a possibility.

For this we must go back to Kalak POV he saw red, orange and violet blood on the battle field after the desolation. I am pretty sure that Parshendi blood is orange and assuming that also includes parshmen, their blood was there in the aftermath of the desolation but Kalak doesn't see any Parshendi or Parshmen.

Just because Kalak saw orange blood doesn't mean the Parshendi fought as Voidbringers. He saw red blood too and we know humans fought against the Voidbringers. I think the observation was more about the blood spilled on all sides, not just their enemies. Also, Kalak is looking over only a small part of one battlefield, it's entirely plausible that Parshendi weren't around at the time in the areas Kalak observed. They don't disturb their dead, so there would be little reason for them to remain there.

[blackmagic3]

I think you missed my point about Kalak, throughout the book its says that humans fought against the voidbringers in the desolations. This establishes that only the human race in roshar fought against the voidbringers. The second point is that of Kalak seeing orange blood. Now through the previous point we know that only humans fought against voidbringers which eliminates the possiblity that parshendi/parshmen fought with the humans. What else could the parshendi/parshmen be if not the same species as the voidbringers.

I am not saying that the parshendi on the shattered planes are voidbringers but they were the same type of creatures that Kalak fought in the last desolation.

Edit:Typos

Edited May 13, 2012 by blackmagic3

[Lady_Yasha]

Lovely. I chalked it up to be some Parshendi out for a little vengeance who didn't expect to meet Dalinar at that particular place and time. Or rather he made the assumption based on previous encounters with Dalinar that the man in grey Shardplate was the man he was searching for.

Now tell me which of our theories is more illogical?

As Exhibit R illustrates, Sanderson loves foreshadowing, and your theory may hold merit.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Lyrebon

[Thought]

I mean --- there can be natural reasons for them to have marbled / burn skin...

Clearly, they're calicos, the Roshar version of Inquisitor cats. Of course, that would mean that there are no parshmen, just parshwomen.