Connerjade

Hey, I haven't been on for a while, so hello! I completely and totally agree that Dalinar is becoming a surgebinder. I don't know if shard-wielding is deliberately something that you can learn or if it is that all shardplate is de-powered. I personally tend to favor the latter, simply because it seems to be a cleaner solution and explains why Szeth just can't use it. If it was related to skill, it would make sense that Szeth could touch it (of course, we still don't know what is happening with Szeth and how he is different from what Kaladin is).

If the plate becomes more mobile/agile the more the wielder is acting according to honor, then Szeth could feel as though he is slowed by the plate even though a full Knight would not be.

In terms of everyone's ability to go ftl through tech... I think they all should be able to make it, since in every planet labor is hceaper than on earth, and I don't recall any material shortages thatwould prevent it.

Answering how Taravangian may have influenced the SymbolSpren's bonding to Shallan. I am increasingly becoming convinced that as a general rule, Investiture-Spren follow certain families/bloodlines, probably because they are likely confirmed sources of honor. Much how a Mad Seon in Elantris would go crazy but stay generally near the family's domain (when their person was taken by the Sheod), I think Investiture-Spren essentially did that when the bonds were all dropped (regardless of the mechanism that the Recreance took place through). Jasnah, Elhokar, and Dalinar, are all part of the same family, so they were already being "evaluated" when they become what a spren was looking for. I am of the opinion that Taravangian is probably a second bloodline that is normally followed. Shallan on the other hand, might not be, however, when she was creatively drawing an honest portrait of Taravangian, Taravangian's spren put her under surveillance. From that point on, she has a spren following her because she is now a confirmed candidate. I discuss the bloodline thing here. Side Note on Elhokar: I have the feeling that he will be in Order 3. For the majority of The Way of Kings, Dalinar was not resolute. He was wavering, wondering what he should do, how it would be perceived. He was a builder, we saw that immediately in the way that he had built his army, but the second item was something that he had to work on, it was an attribute that caused conflict within the character to make him his ideal self. Elhokar is currently obediant. He constantly seems to be looking around, trying to get someone to tell him what he is supposed to do, which at times is hard for him because he is supposed to be king and kings should be independent. And Elhokar is brave, Dalinar notes this at least once when thinking of him. Elhokar is a brave man who can't understand why no one even acknowledges the perceived threats that he sees.

Well, Kaladin binds rock to other rock before taking the second oath. .If you hold to the second attribute being important in the moment, perhaps the ideals open up your flow of power more on a permanent-like status. Acting according to the ideal gives you a momentary surge of strength.

Also, this does jive with the "the magic systems are all essentially the same" statement. Returned, Elantrians, semi hemulurgy, when you die, if the shard likes you, you become AWESOME.

Do you see the power level growing as a one time thing (like getting a new level in a game) or acting out the second attribute as a temporary thing ( like getting a powerup? I feel like it is the first, but I could be wrong.

That places an absurd limitation on the power system. For example, if Kaladin is alone, he is unlikely to be leading at that moment. Therefore he can't use a lashing?

I am pretty sure that 16 was preservation's choice. I assume that the other numbers were also based on the shards own decision. I think I agree with the overall concept that the shard uses whatever it finds, though I assume that there are materials that are too base to be used as fuel. Or maybe it haas something to do with an inherent spiritual charge in a variety of objects. For example, metal and colors both contain a significant amount of spiritual weight and therefore, if the planet has a significant amount of the material, they are an optionfor a shard to use.

It could be one that he later discarded. This feels functionally like pride (people tend to derive pride from status), though maybe I am just crazy in saying that. Of course, he wrote this quote after he wrote The Way of Kings, but does Hoid really count as using it? I am not all that familiar with Brandon's style of writing when talking about his fiction, so I really couldn't guess what counts and doesn't count.

Book 10 has a good amount happen, however, it is almost all with a fairly disliked Wonder girl, and therefore, it feels like nothing is happening. However, we have yet to see if all of the girls are important on a global scale, if they are, then yes, you really, truly, need to read the entire series including book 10. I will admit that I tend to skip most of 9 and 10 during re-reads, but that is because I have gotten to see what happens already.

Cadsuane has an amazingly high opinion of herself, I don't recall her ever admitting that she was overly honored. However, you can't see anything amazing from her because she has been surpassed. Cadsuane suffers strongly from The Worf Effect, in fact, that essentially seems to be her primary purpose (since Jordan moved Moraine away, she wasn't able to do that).

Overall, I think I like it. I might quibble with exactly what you are defining as the Surge activating should probably be defined as solidifying the Nahel Bond (Primary makes you a candidate, Secondary effectively makes the bond solid), but it is fully possible that I am misunderstanding what you are trying to say. Also, Order 7 seems weird in this case. I don't really see where you can point out and say, there, that wise man was careful there. Other orders have extremely complimentary attributes (Loving/Healing) but those seem distinguishable. However, careful seems weird in this case... It doesn't really invalidate the theory, I just have trouble visualizing it.

As an observation, I strongly believe that we will see that forging a Nahel Bond in The Way of Kings actually does have a significant genetic component. So far, the majority of people who look to be in the process of forging a bond with a spren appear to have common roots. Kaladin would be an outlier, except for it appears as though Tien was preparing to become a KR himself, just he wasn’t yet at that point. This has come up in another thread which I don’t recall where it is. Kaladin is also Alethi, which seems to have had and still does have a preponderance of people capable of becoming a Surgebinder (Likely because that is where all the Knight Radiants lived and therefore, where they likely procreated before the recreance). Dalinar, Jasnah, Adolin, and Elhokar are all very closely related and all seem likely to become a surgebinder at some point in time. Shallan is alone, but to be fair, we have very little information on her family in general. We know that her family is effectively crippled, but the only one we have any information about seems too evil to ever become a Knight Radiant (though if Odium works through him, I would not be surprised in the least). Szeth is someone I tend to leave alone just due to Brandon’s comment that “Something different is going on with him”. Until I know more, I currently just assume him to be the outlier in anything. So, given what we have, out of 5 people who we have evidence of probably being a surgebinder (Kaladin, Dalinar, Jasnah, Elhokar, Shallan) three are related and four are Alethi. I would assume that Alethi blood makes you more likely to surgebind. Furthermore, I think it is likely that the Lighteyes are generally descendants of the Knights Radiant. Unfortunately, this is almost entirely off the strength of Hoid’s vague quote: It seems a very reasonable choice to give power to the Lighteyes if they are related to the honorable Radiants. Given that four of the five possible Surgebinders are light-eyed, it seems that this strengthens the theory. Now, I am not arguing that actions are not the predominant determining factor in becoming a Knight Radiant, they are. However, I am arguing that genetics are important, possibly because Bindspren (I don’t know what to call HonorSpren/Truthspren/anything else) generally follow family lines. I think it works like going to an Ivy League College; you can do it if you are from an underrepresented area, but you are more likely to make it if you already have family members/ancestors there.

Yes, those they gave it to are horrible in using it, however, if they degenerated to be as bad as the current Alethi imagine the horror if they were still surgebinders as well. Overall, the Alethkar is unpleasant, but not really horrifying. Perhaps this was the lesser of two evils.

FiveAM is correct.

Because although it is still him, his biology has drastically changed? Possibly including his tongue. Also, because although he speaks Alethi natively, he probably hasn't used it for the last... 15+ years.

As someone who hasn't really touched most sciences in years, is a surge called Life but essentially meaning biology viable? Yes, biology is also not something that matters on a galactic scale, but it does matter on a planetary scale, which is what I think the standard level of influence that a surge should have.

Also Sadeas is specifically noted as feeling it when he was without a blade. Maybe it is coming through the plate as well, but it seems as though it is the blades that are tainted. Syl responds to the blades, not the plate. The shardbearers in Dalinar's vision drop the blades first (though that could very well just be because it is easier to undress with 2 hands). I am inclined to think that the radiants left because someone saw the order degenerating even further had they stayed. Perhaps they move from menial wars to taking power themselves and wished to prevent that by giving up their power while they were still clearheaded enough to do so.

Is it instead possible that Shallan creates honest representations of the world? She doesn't just draw random images or things that she thinks that would be nice, she creates pictures showing what was there when she "took" the image. So, much as how Kaladin is virtually always in a leadership role when he is protecting, Shallan is always honest when she is creating. Remember also who the subject of the portrait is, Taravangian, the man with a MASSIVE secret. Who is known as a dumb, kindly old man who builds hospitals to heal the sick but happens to be a sometimes brilliant, borderline evil man who builds deathhouses to collect the visions that are left by the dead and assassinates half the political structure of the planet (Hyperbole there). Perhaps the combination of the two people with large important secrets happens to bring the symbolspren out more? I think I agree with everything except for 2. For 2: As others have said before, if you really have to tell a powerful truth each time you want to do something, you are going to quickly run out. As opposed to just building a bond with the spren so it "likes you" due to the truths you have already told it and is more inclined to help out.

Travel can probably be more perfectly described as space, which would work a little better for Inevitable's statement that it is a thing. The problem is I don't understand time giving back limbs unless we go in the past, and I already noted my issue with that. Inevitable is right when he says that Life is galactically useless unless we make people the center of the galaxy, which they very well might be.

Unfortunately, Kaladin seems like he is going to be a terrible example for this since they go so hand in hand for him. We can note that Syl was initially drawn to him while he was protecting weak Tien-like soldiers in a leadership position. He loses his men and stops protecting and leading. When he chooses to protect again, he begins leading again. Actually, I was thinking that one might define more who a person is and the other what they do with that attribute. 1- A leader who protects 2- A confident man who metes out justice. 3- A brave man who obeys 4- A loving woman who heals 5- A learned woman who gives 6- An honest woman who creates etc. Sadly, this does little to separate the attributes, since it isn't clearly delineated into the attribute tree and action tree. As far as activating the Nahel bond goes. It seems to me that Kaladin's finalization of the bond, when he says the second ideal was an example of him only protecting, not leading He left bridge four behind when he did that, rather than leading them on a heroic charge. I am almost more happy simply thinking that maybe the ardents got the columns wrong (maybe Shallan's should be flipped for example).

Teft seems convinced that only the first one is held in common. We don't yet know how reliable he is.

I thought the same as readerat2046. I am pretty sure that elhokar has gavilar's which is the property of alethkar. Dalinar's belongs to the kholins. Adolin's is his mother's family.

Sorry, when I wrote General Ideal, I meant the first ideal of the Knights Radiant “Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination.”. The 4th ideal is some combination of the 2nd and 3rd (I will protect by leading for Windrunners). I recognize that the wording is poor, but I believe it will end up being something like that, if much cooler sounding. I tried to think of what a purpose would be like, but wouldn't it essentially cover ground that one of the others manages to say? For example, Kaladin's purpose is to protect, so how would ideal 4 distinguish itself from ideal 2?