Something that bothers me SO MUCH about Rhythm of War stuff and Hero of Ages stuff and the conclusions I came to.

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood]

Ok remember how back in Mistborn Era 1 Brandon was like, preservation and ruin are opposites. but then in rhythm of war honor and odium are not opposites which got me thinking. what if the reason why honor and odium aren't opposites because they are not the same type of shard. what if there are four different types of shards, like per say there is emotional shards like Odium and such, and then a couple other ones that could be defined that I am too lazy to try and define. *crosses fingers that frustration doesn't immediately shoot this one down, again.*

Edited February 18, 2022 by Thaidakar the Ghostblood

[HSuperLee]

People often lean towards Devotion being the opposite of Odium, which makes a lot of sense to me. We also do know that not all Shards have opposites.

Quote

Shardbound

Do all Shards have a direct paired opposite intent...

Brandon Sanderson

No, I would say no, they do not all have a directly paired opposite intent.

Oathbringer London signing (Nov. 28, 2017)

Now, I do hope that more Shards have actual opposites, because I find the idea really interesting. Especially since all Shards used to be one being, meaning that all the opposites are inherently complimentary, even if they don't always seem like it.

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood]

10 minutes ago, HSuperLee said:

People often lean towards Devotion being the opposite of Odium, which makes a lot of sense to me. We also do know that not all Shards have opposites.

Now, I do hope that more Shards have actual opposites, because I find the idea really interesting. Especially since all Shards used to be one being, meaning that all the opposites are inherently complimentary, even if they don't always seem like it.

True, but also I just had another idea. what if the shards are a scale and at the top (or bottom if you prefer) is preservation and the bottom is Ruin and each shard is either closer or more distant from the one or the other.

[Frustration]

22 minutes ago, Thaidakar the Ghostblood said:

True, but also I just had another idea. what if the shards are a scale and at the top (or bottom if you prefer) is preservation and the bottom is Ruin and each shard is either closer or more distant from the one or the other.

Preservation and Ruin "polarized" to become as opposite as they were. So I don't think that's the case

Spoiler

Argent (paraphrased)

Ruin and Preservation were often represented in the Mistborn trilogy in terms of black and white. Is this imagery limited to that series, or do other Shards also have an associated hue?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

This (Ruin & Preservation's colors) was because of the specific world and their perception of the world and themselves. Essentially, because of the dynamics of the interplay between Ruin and Preservation, they "chose" to view themselves as black and white respectively, so that's how they were represented. Also, because the only two Shards on Scadrial, and their natures were opposites, after the long period of time they spent on the same planet, they kind of "polarized." If similar thing happened on another world, similar coloring effect could happen.

Steelheart Chicago signing (Oct. 1, 2013)

 

1 hour ago, Thaidakar the Ghostblood said:

crosses fingers that frustration doesn't immediately shoot this one down, again.*

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood]

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

Preservation and Ruin "polarized" to become as opposite as they were. So I don't think that's the case

  Hide contents

Argent (paraphrased)

Ruin and Preservation were often represented in the Mistborn trilogy in terms of black and white. Is this imagery limited to that series, or do other Shards also have an associated hue?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

This (Ruin & Preservation's colors) was because of the specific world and their perception of the world and themselves. Essentially, because of the dynamics of the interplay between Ruin and Preservation, they "chose" to view themselves as black and white respectively, so that's how they were represented. Also, because the only two Shards on Scadrial, and their natures were opposites, after the long period of time they spent on the same planet, they kind of "polarized." If similar thing happened on another world, similar coloring effect could happen.

Steelheart Chicago signing (Oct. 1, 2013)

 

Hey when you shoot down my crackpot theories it is kind of hard not to wish for you to not to. also that makes sense.

[Frustration]

2 minutes ago, Thaidakar the Ghostblood said:

Hey when you shoot down my crackpot theories it is kind of hard not to wish for you to not to.

I acsended to Frustration because my crackpot theory get shot down, I know exactly how you feel.

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood]

Just now, Frustration said:

I acsended to Frustration because my crackpot theory get shot down, I know exactly how you feel.

oh nice. 

[CryoZenith]

The opposite of Honor is Whimsy :3. (if my hunch that Whimsy represents RNG rather than playfulness/taking things lightly turns out to be correct)

[+Bzhydack]

4 hours ago, Thaidakar the Ghostblood said:

Ok remember how back in Mistborn Era 1 Brandon was like, preservation and ruin are opposites. but then in rhythm of war honor and odium are not opposites which got me thinking. what if the reason why honor and odium aren't opposites because they are not the same type of shard. what if there are four different types of shards, like per say there is emotional shards like Odium and such, and then a couple other ones that could be defined that I am too lazy to try and define. *crosses fingers that frustration doesn't immediately shoot this one down, again.*

Aaaaand we have another topic about grouping Shards. Yeah, everyone here probably tried this in his career on Forum 

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood]

1 minute ago, Bzhydack said:

Aaaaand we have another topic about grouping Shards. Yeah, everyone here probably tried this in his career on Forum 

rusts, I knew I have seen something like this before.

[Trusk'our]

Honestly, I think that Endowment is the closest to being Odium's opposite. Endowment is all about giving of one's self with no strings attached, while Odium is inherently selfish and cares only about itself.

[cometaryorbit]

I am actually kind of baffled as to what Odium's intent actually means. Yeah, I know it's basically hatred, but... Odium is associated with "burning" imagery when perceived by Dalinar and Venli, and seems to be tied to conflict (in ROW it's said that the power wants conflict, even when Rayse doesn't want to be opposed); he also calls himself "Passion", which is apparently not really true, but it does seem a bit broader than hate, including other "aggressive" or "violent" emotions as well (at least in Dalinar's experience).

On the other hand, Odium is also associated with the "Void" and emotional deadness ("take your pain"). These seem extremely opposite.

So is Odium a dead, void-like, cold hatred/intent to harm others or a burning raging hatred/desire for conflict?

[Elegy]

5 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

I am actually kind of baffled as to what Odium's intent actually means. Yeah, I know it's basically hatred, but... Odium is associated with "burning" imagery when perceived by Dalinar and Venli, and seems to be tied to conflict (in ROW it's said that the power wants conflict, even when Rayse doesn't want to be opposed); he also calls himself "Passion", which is apparently not really true, but it does seem a bit broader than hate, including other "aggressive" or "violent" emotions as well (at least in Dalinar's experience).

On the other hand, Odium is also associated with the "Void" and emotional deadness ("take your pain"). These seem extremely opposite.

So is Odium a dead, void-like, cold hatred/intent to harm others or a burning raging hatred/desire for conflict?

I think Moash's development could be an attempt to portray this very thing, the two seemingly contradicting sides of Odium. Odium loves emotion, especially negative emotion that those who feel it want to be gone. So he takes it, and what he leaves behind is the void and coldness. Moash was once an angry and sorrowful person, and Odium liked that about him. That's why he made him give up these emotions, leaving Moash an emotionless, cold shell of his former self, while Odium feasts on his emotions. So while the passion is closer to Odium's Intent, the fact that it devours emotion leads to the void as another central theme for him.

But I agree that it's confusing, and I could be wrong.

[DiePie]

On 2/19/2022 at 5:19 AM, Elegy said:

So while the passion is closer to Odium's Intent, the fact that it devours emotion leads to the void as another central theme for him.

I feel that's where the major divide between Rayse and Odium is, Odium (the power) loves emotion, but Rayse doesn't like being questioned, he wants to be the only one with emotions. It's a concept I feel comes up a few times, the ones I can think of are: Leshwi talking to Venli about how the other Fused, and one of Taravangian and Rayse's conversations together.

But also on the main topic of the thread, there's been some attempts to classify shards into four groups based on the Dawnshards, if that's any help.

Personally I like the scale better, since it more aligns with the different frequencies of light/sound associated with each shard... but I think if that's going to be canon it's for the big screen, since the color symbolism feels a bit messed up for that to work for me.