Cancelling the Everstorm

[VGStrife]

So, we know the Everstorm is a source/production/mass of Voidlight. What effect would anti-Voidlight have on it? Or even just inverse tones?

Would it be possible to drain it somehow, so it is less destructive? (Also could the same happen to the Highstorm!)

Just a couple of thoughts from a recent first read through

Edited January 22, 2022 by VGStrife

[Benkinsky they/them]

oh, good question. I think that depends on how the Storms work with providing Investiture.

If there's a mini-perpendicularity inside the storm, with Investiture pouring out from the Spiritual Realm, I doubt a bunch of Anti-Investiture could really do much apart from causing a big explosion.

If it's a mass of Light, and you had a sufficient amount of Anti-Light, you might be able to do something. If you can kill Fused with Anti-Voidlight, and Spren with Anti-Stormlight, it sounds like you might be able to kill the Stormfather if you try hard enough and figure out where and how to hit him.

[DiePie]

if the Voidlight is being refilled through a perpendicularity (which it doesn't seem to be, since you need to pray to Odium for it), then I'd think all you could do is collapse the perpendicularity in the same way that Nightblood does. I suppose that with enough power you could probably cause the Everstorm to stop? I feel like either the power required for that can only be found in gods or that there's some other realmatic reason that wouldn't work. Would make a nice question for Brandon though.

Either way, it's revealed at the end of RoW (this isn't really spoiling anything so I'm not going to put a tag around it) that the Everstorm is no longer needed to awaken Fused.

[Wandering Shade]

The Everstorm was never needed to awaken Fused, it's just a more efficient way to doing so.

[DiePie]

2 hours ago, Wandering Shade said:

The Everstorm was never needed to awaken Fused, it's just a more efficient way to doing so.

can you point me towards a source on that? I would've sworn El said something about that, but on reread all they say is that Odium "made an exception".

Either way I agree, the Everstorm's purpose was mainly to reawaken the singers, and also maybe circumvent the Oathpact.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

20 hours ago, VGStrife said:

So, we know the Everstorm is a source/production/mass of Voidlight. What effect would anti-Voidlight have on it? Or even just inverse tones?

I imagine it's theoretically possible to destroy it with anti-Voidlight, but in practical terms you're never getting even remotely distantly close to that much. It seems to require the "Song of Prayer" thing to get Light, so taking a gem out in there probably won't immediately explode you like taking an anti-Stormlight gem into the highstorm probably would, but I'd guess there's probably still enough ambient Odious Investiture laying around that in the long run the sphere will be destroyed.

20 hours ago, VGStrife said:

Would it be possible to drain it somehow, so it is less destructive? (Also could the same happen to the Highstorm!)

Hmmm. I think hypothetically, removing enough Investiture from whatever's running it (assuming that it's a spren or spren-like clump of nonsapient Investiture rather than Odium itself) would weaken it, but would still take far more than would ever be practical to make a noticeable dent.

Same with the highstorm, damaging the Stormfather and removing a chunk would probably weaken the storm in my opinion, but uh, good luck doing that lol.

[Trusk'our he/him]

1 hour ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Same with the highstorm, damaging the Stormfather and removing a chunk would probably weaken the storm in my opinion, but uh, good luck doing that lol.

I wonder if wielding Nightblood would make such an effect achievable. 

[VGStrife]

So, what I’m getting from this is that it may have some effect, but the amount of anti-VL needed to realistically collapse it is more than could feasibly be produced in one lifetime?

Next thought on the storm, if one can “corrupt” a spren using VL (when the spren is initially some other light

Spoiler

For example the Sibling

), could one force another kind of light into a storm to do likewise, or does it have to be into the spren itself/is there a distinction?

[cometaryorbit]

I think the Stormfather is just the spren of the Highstorm, I don't think he really literally is the storm - at least, not in the sense that a human would normally understand that statement; a spren might have a different view of identity.

So i don't think throwing anti-Stormlight into a Highstorm would harm the Stormfather himself, though it might disrupt the storm locally. Putting out a fire doesn't kill flamespren nearby. Now the Highstorm is more unique than fire, but still...

[Frustration]

4 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

I think the Stormfather is just the spren of the Highstorm, I don't think he really literally is the storm - at least, not in the sense that a human would normally understand that statement; a spren might have a different view of identity.

So i don't think throwing anti-Stormlight into a Highstorm would harm the Stormfather himself, though it might disrupt the storm locally. Putting out a fire doesn't kill flamespren nearby. Now the Highstorm is more unique than fire, but still...

The Sibling is Urithiru, so I don't see why the Stormfather isn't the storm.

[cometaryorbit]

5 minutes ago, Frustration said:

The Sibling is Urithiru, so I don't see why the Stormfather isn't the storm.

It's possible. But I see Urithiru as being more analogous to a spren manifesting in the Physical Realm as a Shardblade or Soulcaster or Regrowth fabrial, whereas the Highstorm is probably older than the Stormfather. Didn't the sapient spren come with the Shards, though at least some of the non-sapient spren (those used for "regular" singer forms, like lifespren, gravitationspren, painspren) are Adonalsium-era?

Plus, isn't the Stormfather a Splinter of Honor, thus presumably post-dating Honor's presence on Roshar?

Although I guess the Adonalsium-era presence of his Investiture could have drawn him to Roshar... but I thought the idea was the three Bondsmith spren were creations or offspring of Honor and Cultivation.

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, cometaryorbit said:

It's possible. But I see Urithiru as being more analogous to a spren manifesting in the Physical Realm as a Shardblade or Soulcaster or Regrowth fabrial, whereas the Highstorm is probably older than the Stormfather. Didn't the sapient spren come with the Shards, though at least some of the non-sapient spren (those used for "regular" singer forms, like lifespren, gravitationspren, painspren) are Adonalsium-era?

Plus, isn't the Stormfather a Splinter of Honor, thus presumably post-dating Honor's presence on Roshar?

Although I guess the Adonalsium-era presence of his Investiture could have drawn him to Roshar... but I thought the idea was the three Bondsmith spren were creations or offspring of Honor and Cultivation.

The Stormfather and the Highstorm were made at the same time and both predate the Shattering of Adonalsium, though back then the Stormfather was much weaker than he is now.

After Honor showed up the Stormfather received addiotional investiture, and following the Splintering of Honor the Stormfather was fused with Tanavasts cognitive shadow.

Spoiler

Questioner

Does the spren have to be present for a Surgebinder to have their abilities? Because with Dalinar, the Stormfather won’t be around all the time...

Brandon Sanderson

Good Question! Fortunately, the Stormfather is a little more omnipresent. Normally you’re gonna have to have your spren close, but the Stormfather absorbed... is basically Honor’s Cognitive Shadow, which means he’s got a connection to a lot of different things, so he’s not bound by a lot of the rules that others are.

Shadows of Self San Francisco signing (Oct. 9, 2015)

Questioner (paraphrased)

What is the relationship between Nightwatcher and Cultivation?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

I expected a hard RAFO, but he said Nightwatcher compared to Cultivation is similar to Stormfather compared to Honor.

Firefight Phoenix signing (Jan. 21, 2015)

coltonx9

Do the singers predate the highstorms?

Brandon Sanderson

The singers and the highstorms are-- The highstorms-- Let's say no. Trying to decide which one came first. They were created, right? But the highstorms were created as part of Roshar, as well. The highstorms predate humans arriving. Highstorms predate the Shattering of Adonalsium.

Idaho Falls signing (Dec. 29, 2018)

Snote85

Have the Highstorms always existed on Roshar? The excerpt that talks about how one of the Bondsmiths had resigned himself to fight the Voidbringers but woke up and had a new idea, one that had to do with the nature of the Heralds themselves. Then, inside the Oathgate, we see "mythical creatures" like lions and such. It would make sense that the world might have been different when the KR were last around. So much so, that if the Highstorms "Opposite" is the Everstorm and it was made by followers of Odium, then the Highstorm would have been made by followers of Honor.

Brandon Sanderson

Highstorms did predate the arrival of Honor and Cultivation on Roshar, but it has evolved much during the thousands of years since that event. It was not created by followers of Honor, but there is more to this story that you'll find out as the series progresses.

General Reddit 2017 (Feb. 10, 2017)

 

[cometaryorbit]

Do we know that? The WoB you quote says that the highstorm predates the Shards, but not that the Stormfather does.

Yes, the Stormfather changed when he absorbed/became Tanavast/Honor's Cognitive Shadow at Honor's death, but he was already a Bondsmith Spren before that (and thus a sapient Radiant spren).

Did he have a *third* earlier state where he was non-sapient, before the arrival of the Shards, when there were no sapient Radiant spren?

[Frustration]

3 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said:

Do we know that? The WoB you quote says that the highstorm predates the Shards, but not that the Stormfather does.

Yes, the Stormfather changed when he absorbed/became Tanavast/Honor's Cognitive Shadow at Honor's death, but he was already a Bondsmith Spren before that (and thus a sapient Radiant spren).

Did he have a *third* earlier state where he was non-sapient, before the arrival of the Shards, when there were no sapient Radiant spren?

Here

Spoiler

Narkac

Where does the Stormlight in highstorms come from? Is there like a "rain cycle", but for the Stormlight?

Brandon Sanderson

The Stormlight in the highstorm is transferred from the Spiritual realm through the Stormfather into the highstorm.

Paris signing (Oct. 22, 2016)

The stormfather is part of the Stormlight cycle and the Stormlight cycle predates Honor

Spoiler

Questioner

You mentioned the ecology on Roshar, and also you mentioned that mostly the non-sentient spren predate the Shattering of Adonalsium. So my question is about the evolution of life on Roshar, and how essential the highstorms are to life on Roshar, how the plants evolved, so can we assume that life that is dependent on the highstorms predates the Shattering of Adonalsium?

Brandon Sanderson

Um… You--

Questioner

Can we correctly assume?

Brandon Sanderson

--yeah, *laughter* I'll tell you this. The highstorms predate, and there was a lot of natural evolution on Roshar, resulting in a lot of what we have there.

JordanCon 2016 (April 23, 2016)

 

[AonDoor he/him]

When I read the topic title, I thought we were talking about "The Everstorm is too destructive. I don't like it. Let's cancel it." Whoops.

[cometaryorbit]

3 hours ago, Frustration said:

Here

  Hide contents

Narkac

Where does the Stormlight in highstorms come from? Is there like a "rain cycle", but for the Stormlight?

Brandon Sanderson

The Stormlight in the highstorm is transferred from the Spiritual realm through the Stormfather into the highstorm.

Paris signing (Oct. 22, 2016)

The stormfather is part of the Stormlight cycle and the Stormlight cycle predates Honor

  Hide contents

Questioner

You mentioned the ecology on Roshar, and also you mentioned that mostly the non-sentient spren predate the Shattering of Adonalsium. So my question is about the evolution of life on Roshar, and how essential the highstorms are to life on Roshar, how the plants evolved, so can we assume that life that is dependent on the highstorms predates the Shattering of Adonalsium?

Brandon Sanderson

Um… You--

Questioner

Can we correctly assume?

Brandon Sanderson

--yeah, *laughter* I'll tell you this. The highstorms predate, and there was a lot of natural evolution on Roshar, resulting in a lot of what we have there.

JordanCon 2016 (April 23, 2016)

 

Maybe I am just being obtuse, but I still don't see that as confirmation. The highstorms absolutely predate the Shards, granted.  And the Stormfather is critical to the Highstorm cycle now, granted.

But I still think it's likely that Honor and/or Cultivation significantly changed how the highstorm cycle worked when they Invested the planet. Stormlight is Honor's Investiture, after all.

And I think the three bondsmith spren being "siblings" implies a common origin, which kind of would have to be Honor/Cultivation creating splinters voluntarily, since Nightwatcher is Cultivation, Stormfather is Honor, Sibling is both.

But I guess there's a middle ground, where Honor "created" the Stormfather (as a sapient being and a Radiant spren) by massively Investing a pre-existing, originally non-sapient spren of the highstorm.

[Going_North_cal]

4 hours ago, AonDoor said:

When I read the topic title, I thought we were talking about "The Everstorm is too destructive. I don't like it. Let's cancel it." Whoops.

I thought it was a Twitter ref.

"The everstorm isn't being super cool right now. Cancel it!

#CancelEverstorm #OdiumSux"