Hidden in plain sight: The HORRIFYING power of Bondsmiths

[Frustration]

So I was thinking about the eternal Mistborn vs Radiant debate when I had a thought, "What can chained Bondsmiths do?" Other than what we've been told is something that never happened before we've seen very little of what they can do. Yet they are supposed to be the most powerful Order, so much so that the Fused are scared to go near one unless they have overwhelming numbers.

But what are they afraid of? A full lashing sticking them to the ground? A statue being put back together? Radiants getting more Stormlight? Something else scares them, something other than them having Admin permissions on other people's souls, that hasn't happened while they've been around, so what is it?

Well, we've seen one more power that they have, Bondsmiths can synergeticly change other Radiants surges. We see this when Dalinar and Shallan make the map of Roshar, and we see the results of Melishi making the sheild.

Spoiler

LerasiumMistborn

You said Bondsmiths can boost other Radiants' powers. That moment when Dalinar helped Shallan a create a map. Can he do it with all Radiants? And this “boost” is always different with each Order?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, and yes.

Skyward Pre-Release AMA (Oct. 19, 2018)

Questioner

We know the Moon Scepter helps to change Identity [and/or/of] Investiture? So in the case of Raoden using *inaudible* Elantrians off-planet, would the Moon Scepter allow them to...

Brandon Sanderson

So the Moon Scepter is part of a key that they are trying to figure out how to do this. Because, Elantrian magic can be really powerful. All of the Selish magics can be really powerful. Because they are drawing from the Dor the way that they do, you're basically hooked up to a giant battery.

So, none of the other Cosmere magics you've seen have that level going on. The closest you're going to get is when you've got a Bondsmith powering the magic for the Knights Radiant.  Cracking how to make that work on other planets is a really important thing that people are trying to figure out.

Footnote: The Moon Scepter's functionality has been described elsewhere.
FanX 2018 (Sept. 6, 2018)

This is how the Bondsmiths differ, not in their own powers, but in how they affect the powers of others!

That's why the Fused are so afraid, Bondsmiths can mess with their surgebinding!

 

This is why their powers aren't best simply for combat, they act like modifiers to other Radinats powers enabling them to do things they otherwise couldn't, that is the Bondsmiths true power

[Legui01010 he/him]

...boi, that's terrifying. Imagine Kaladin being powered up by Dalinar, or one of the Dustbringers (already being the main weapon against de Thunderclasts). 

But as you said, that power was theirs (the Bondsmiths) while Honor was alive and upholding his laws. Dalinar might have a Splinter of Honor within him (being Unity himself), and bonded to the Stormfather... No wonder Rayse was so frantic to get his hands on him.

[Thaidakar the Ghostblood he/him]

ooooh, imagine that being used as an opposite against the fused, if he can create can he destroy? this is getting me thinking. but now we realize that Dalinar can't divide according to his second oath, I will unite instead of Divide. but then you realize something, the storm father was afraid of Ishar. Ishar is an unchained Bondsmith. Ishar could potentially destroy powers, steal bonds and so much more.

[KaladinWorldsinger]

That is interesting, but i doubt Bondsmiths have that power over the voidbringers. Seems too convenient. It would make more sense that he can change it only for radiants.

Maybe it's just connection shenanigans. Who is to say that connecting something to the ground is a Bondsmith unchained only power? Maybe a strong enough Bondsmith can do it

[Frustration]

Just now, KaladinWorldsinger said:

That is interesting, but i doubt Bondsmiths have that power over the voidbringers. Seems too convenient. It would make more sense that he can change it only for radiants.

That is possible, though why they would be afraid would remain unansewred and as all magic in the cosmere can be worked together I don't see why it would have that limitation.

1 minute ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Maybe it's just connection shenanigans. Who is to say that connecting something to the ground is a Bondsmith unchained only power? Maybe a strong enough Bondsmith can do it

I don't think so, even seeing connections was something that wasn't possible until the recreance.

 

Just some thoughts on specific interactions, Basic lashings can be preformed to specific directions, but with Bondsmiths, it's possible that they could be connected to specific objects, or even people. Progression could become a form of time dialation, like the space between spaces the Stormfather can create. Cohesion could make objects soft for specific people, making doors only a few can enter, and so forth.

[Legui01010 he/him]

10 hours ago, Frustration said:

Just some thoughts on specific interactions, Basic lashings can be preformed to specific directions, but with Bondsmiths, it's possible that they could be connected to specific objects, or even people. Progression could become a form of time dialation, like the space between spaces the Stormfather can create. Cohesion could make objects soft for specific people, making doors only a few can enter, and so forth.

Regarding the Bondsmiths abilities to modify and power up other Radiant surges. Could it be possible for one Bondsmith to do the same to another Bondsmith? Say for example Dalinar "buffs" Navani's abilities (theorizing, cause beyond the protections and mechanisms of Urithiru and the Sibling, Navani's surges, while being the same, might work differently, given that the Spren of each Bondsmith is unique).

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, Legui01010 said:

Regarding the Bondsmiths abilities to modify and power up other Radiant surges. Could it be possible for one Bondsmith to do the same to another Bondsmith? Say for example Dalinar "buffs" Navani's abilities (theorizing, cause beyond the protections and mechanisms of Urithiru and the Sibling, Navani's surges, while being the same, might work differently, given that the Spren of each Bondsmith is unique).

Wait.

Bondsmiths even more unchained?

That can't be good.

[Legui01010 he/him]

8 hours ago, Frustration said:

That can't be good.

My same thoughts.

Also, there's another variable here. Was Honor the only one who upheld his laws? Honor and Cultivation lived during the time of the Radiants, Venli's 2nd Ideal was accepted by a female. This could be the Nightwatcher, accepting Oaths (I don't think Ba Ado Mishram accepted Venli's Ideal), which means Cultivation might play a role in upholding certain laws or restrictions, in the case of the last Bondsmith (the Nightwatcher's). Again, it's a big maybe, but we cannot discard the possibility that Cultivation has some sway in a few of the Orders.

Edited December 30, 2021 by Legui01010

[LewsTherinTelescope]

On 12/29/2021 at 10:19 AM, Frustration said:

So I was thinking about the eternal Mistborn vs Radiant debate when I had a thought, "What can chained Bondsmiths do?" Other than what we've been told is something that never happened before we've seen very little of what they can do. Yet they are supposed to be the most powerful Order, so much so that the Fused are scared to go near one unless they have overwhelming numbers.

Well, do we know that they'd be this scared of a chained Bondsmith? It might be because they don't have experience with an unchained Bondsmith and so have no idea what his limits are.

22 hours ago, Legui01010 said:

Again, it's a big maybe, but we cannot discard the possibility that Cultivation has some sway in a few of the Orders.

This seems less tied to the order and more the individual Radiant. When Eshonai was bonded to Timbre, the Stormfather remarks on accepting her oaths (though we don't actually hear it), and she hears the Rhythm of War snap into harmony at one point, the way Venli hears Cultivation and Odium snap into harmony.

[Frustration]

7 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Well, do we know that they'd be this scared of a chained Bondsmith? It might be because they don't have experience with an unchained Bondsmith and so have no idea what his limits are.

That is entirely possible, and a good point to keep in mind.

Though, unless Odium told them something, I can't think of how they'd know.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

5 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Though, unless Odium told them something, I can't think of how they'd know.

Good question for sure, but the Fused have... weird knowledge. For example, they somehow know about how spren fabrials work despite not even having known spren could be trapped until it happened to Mishram, and apparently Raboniel is familiar with how the Sibling's suppressor works at the start of the book. So it seems they're getting information from somewhere. (Also like... they saw Dalinar open a Perpendicularity. Probably shocked them quite a bit lmao, considering how much it shocked the Stormfather and Odium himself.)

On 12/29/2021 at 11:56 AM, Frustration said:

Basic lashings can be preformed to specific directions, but with Bondsmiths, it's possible that they could be connected to specific objects, or even people.

Ooh, I think this is plausible. A subtlety that a lot of people miss in theorizing on this is that, as far as we know, Dalinar didn't make Shallan's Lightweaving stronger, he just sorta plugged in Connection from the Stormfather in place of the normal Connection a Lightweaving uses as a seed. The idea of a more specific target for a Lashing fits nicely in that vein, though.

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Good question for sure, but the Fused have... weird knowledge. For example, they somehow know about how spren fabrials work despite not even having known spren could be trapped until it happened to Mishram, 

I wasn't aware they were overly knowledgeable about modern fabrials, I remember Raboniel revealing that spren could become fabrials, but not much on modern ones.

2 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

and apparently Raboniel is familiar with how the Sibling's suppressor works at the start of the book.

I was looking at this just yesterday, apparently Raboniel was somhow inside the tower at one point, and also awake.

I haven't the faintest idea how.

4 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

(Also like... they saw Dalinar open a Perpendicularity. Probably shocked them quite a bit lmao, considering how much it shocked the Stormfather and Odium himself.)

That is a very good point

[LewsTherinTelescope]

Just now, Frustration said:

I wasn't aware they were overly knowledgeable about modern fabrials, I remember Raboniel revealing that spren could become fabrials, but not much on modern ones.

I dunno if they're super knowledgeable, but they have some fabrials (like spanreeds) with Enlightened spren to work while the suppression is on, so they seem to have some knowledge.

1 minute ago, Frustration said:

I was looking at this just yesterday, apparently Raboniel was somhow inside the tower at one point, and also awake.

I haven't the faintest idea how.

Yeah, it's so weird.

[Frustration]

2 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I dunno if they're super knowledgeable, but they have some fabrials (like spanreeds) with Enlightened spren to work while the suppression is on, so they seem to have some knowledge.

I imagined that was them interigating the artifabrians they captured at Kholinar.

[Rosharan Chicken he/him]

Unchained Bondsmiths can make godmetals.

[Frustration]

Just now, First of the night said:

Unchained Bondsmiths can make godmetals.

Source?

That intriuges me in so many ways.

[Rosharan Chicken he/him]

Just now, Frustration said:

Source?

That intriuges me in so many ways.

Just speculation.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

15 minutes ago, Frustration said:

I imagined that was them interigating the artifabrians they captured at Kholinar.

Ah, could be.

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, First of the night said:

Just speculation.

That could be possible, now that you mention it, they have access to vast amounts of investiture, and the ability to Connect it to a Shard. Though I doubt it would be as easy as simply, making it, if it could be done at all.

Edited December 31, 2021 by Frustration

[Rosharan Chicken he/him]

Jurble

One I think might border even further on RAFO - in RoW, Dalinar accepts Kaladin's Fourth Ideal. I'm wondering, is it possible for Dalinar to... power-level a Radiant up to the Fifth Ideal by just accepting all their Oaths without regards to, you know, underlying fitness? Danger and safety issues aside. The Stormfather's comments on Ishar's powers being beyond the scope of what Honor allowed makes me assume he can.

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO, as you expected. But without Honor around, some of the things he could do are kind of up for grabs.

General Reddit 2020 (Nov. 28, 2020)

 

He says many things Honor was able to do Dalinar could possibly do. This could open up many abilities, as Ishtar shows. Could he use investiture like a shard, but on a much smaller scale. Dalinar could fundamentally change the way the Nahel bond works. Maybe he could also make a radiant use a different form of light, by connecting them to Cultivation. 

Edited December 31, 2021 by First of the night

[Wadders]

Could a bondsmith directly connect a fabrial, lashing, lightweaving etc. to the spirtual realm so it has access to unlimited stormlight? Similar to how the heralds use to be powered directly by honor.

[Frustration]

41 minutes ago, Wadders said:

Could a bondsmith directly connect a fabrial, lashing, lightweaving etc. to the spirtual realm so it has access to unlimited stormlight? Similar to how the heralds use to be powered directly by honor.

.....

That's terrifyingly plausible.

[+Bzhydack he/him]

23 hours ago, Frustration said:

.....

That's terrifyingly plausible.

I think you overestimate Bondsmith. What we talking about here is making portable Perpendicularity Connected to something/someone and fueling itself. Considering how exhausted is for Dalinar simply holding it open near him I dont think he will be able to keep running many of them in various places. I think also that will be absurdly ineficient. Maybe for some giant structure this would be use for this, like StarOathGate.

[Frustration]

40 minutes ago, Bzhydack said:

I think you overestimate Bondsmith. What we talking about here is making portable Perpendicularity Connected to something/someone and fueling itself. Considering how exhausted is for Dalinar simply holding it open near him I dont think he will be able to keep running many of them in various places. I think also that will be absurdly ineficient. Maybe for some giant structure this would be use for this, like StarOathGate.

However instead of opening a perpendicularity simply forge a bond with some remnents of Honor. Ishar made multiple bonds with no issue.

[+Bzhydack he/him]

4 minutes ago, Frustration said:

However instead of opening a perpendicularity simply forge a bond with some remnents of Honor. Ishar made multiple bonds with no issue.

None of them was with Spiritual Realm (we dont talk about Oathpact). Also just "some remnants of Honor" wont bring you unlimited Light. Basicly, every Spren is part of Honor's power. And they still need feed on Light.