Powers of void binding

[bmcclure7]

Know powers of void powers

1. Future sight (Renarin)

2. Passion control (the unmade, ulim)

3. Teleportation (ulim)

4. Connection (Venli)

5. Lighting (stormform)

6. Mindnight Essence 

7. Surge binding mimicry (unmade)

Any more I missed

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, bmcclure7 said:

Know powers of void powers

1. Future sight (Renarin)

2. Passion control (the unmade, ulim)

3. Teleportation (ulim)

4. Connection (Venli)

5. Lighting (stormform)

6. Mindnight Essence 

7. Surge binding mimicry (unmade)

Any more I missed

Actually the only known one is fortelling. A few other things have hints at being there, but nothing concrete enough to say we know.

[bmcclure7]

3 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated said:

Actually the only known one is fortelling. A few other things have hints at being there, but nothing concrete enough to say we know.

We see them all on screen. So to speak. 

[Frustration]

7 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

We see them all on screen. So to speak. 

Yes but that does not mean that they are Voidbinding, Conjoined fabrials have nothing to do with Surgebinding, Each from causes mild shapeshifting to the singer that takes it, but that isn't surgebinding. Flamespren change but if you measure them they stop, but that isn't suregbinding.

The only confirmed Voidbinder is Renarin, everyone else is likely something different, with the possible exception of the Unmade, but that's unsure

Edited December 18, 2021 by Ookla the Frustrated

[bmcclure7]

6 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated said:

Yes but that does not mean that they are Voidbinding, Conjoined fabrials have nothing to do with Surgebinding, Each from causes mild shapeshifting to the singer that takes it, but that isn't surgebinding. Flamespren change but if you measure them they stop, but that isn't suregbinding.

The only confirmed Voidbinder is Renarin, everyone else is likely something different, with the possible exception of the Unmade, but that's unsure

The unmade and regals aren't using fabrials and they aren't surge binding so there is only one other option.

[Frustration]

2 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

The unmade and regals aren't using fabrials and they aren't surge binding so there is only one other option.

And Flamespren, forms that aren't of Odium, Lift, the Old Magic

Are they Voidbinding too?

[bmcclure7]

1 hour ago, Ookla the Frustrated said:

And Flamespren, forms that aren't of Odium, Lift, the Old Magic

Are they Voidbinding too?

Lift is a surge binder the others aren't using any power system so of course there not void binding what is your point?

[Frustration]

Just now, bmcclure7 said:

Lift is a surge binder

Lift's suregbinder-ness is in question.

3 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

the others aren't using any power system so of course there not void binding what is your point?

The Old Magic isn't a power system?

And reguardless some of these can just be chalked up to the nature of the spren, like how Creationspren can change shapes. And others as direct boons from Odium, just like Dalinar or Taravangian are from Cultivation.

[StanLemon]

8 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated said:

The Old Magic isn't a power system?

I've got to agree with Frustration here, Old Magic is some kind of power system even if it is more esoteric than Brandon's usual ones. They are tied together. Hemalurgy can steal Boons and Banes and even separate them from each other. Also, Voidbinding is explicitly mentioned to be a Cousin of Old Magic 

[bmcclure7]

14 minutes ago, StanLemon said:

I've got to agree with Frustration here, Old Magic is some kind of power system even if it is more esoteric than Brandon's usual ones. They are tied together. Hemalurgy can steal Boons and Banes and even separate them from each other. Also, Voidbinding is explicitly mentioned to be a Cousin of Old Magic 

 

 

25 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated said:

Lift's suregbinder-ness is in question.

The Old Magic isn't a power system?

And reguardless some of these can just be chalked up to the nature of the spren, like how Creationspren can change shapes. And others as direct boons from Odium, just like Dalinar or Taravangian are from Cultivation.

 Getting your memory erased by a shard is not a magic system it's an event. Same with all of the other gifts by nightwatcher.  Miraculous yes supernatural is supernatural yes magic system no.

 

No lift surge binding is not in doubt.  There's  nothing in the books that I can think of that would make you think this so I don't know quite what the answer other than no. 

 

 You are wrong about direct booms from odium.  Odium is bound. Is regal let's get their powers by bonding with a void Spren not Odium.  Odium specifically says that even if he wanted to he could not stop the void Spren and fused.  

 

 All Spren have  some natural shape changing abilities  That's not a magic system anymore then me being able to walk is a magic system.   However only void Sprint are shown to alter someone's  Passions. Considering  Is that high Spren are able to surge bind,  We can therefore conclude that void spren should be able to void bind. 

Edited December 19, 2021 by bmcclure7

[Frustration]

3 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

Getting your memory erased by a shard is not a magic system it's an event. Same with all of the other gifts by nightwatcher.  Miraculous yes supernatural is supernatural yes magic system no.

Ok, so you admit that not everything supernatural must come from a magic system, so why must these be Voidbinding?

3 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

No lift surge binding is not in doubt.  There's  nothing in the books that I can think of that would make you think this so I don't know quite what the answer other than no. 

Lift uses Lifelight, was awake during the occupation with no sideffects other than not being able to use Abrasion, something not even Kaladin was able to do.

5 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

You are wrong about direct booms from odium.  Odium is bound. Is regal let's get their powers by bonding with a void Spren not Odium.  Odium specifically says that even if he wanted to he could not stop the void Spren and fused.

Not neccesarily though Odium does not directly cause anything on your list.

[Going_North_cal]

13 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

 All Spren have  some natural shape changing abilities  That's not a magic system anymore then me being able to walk is a magic system.   However only void Sprint are shown to alter someone's  Passions. Considering  Is that high Spren are able to surge bind,  We can therefore conclude that void spren should be able to void bind. 

If by 'high spren,' you mean highspren themselves, or True Spren (The spren that can form Nahel Bonds and give humans the ability to Surgebind) then in both cases, you have been misinformed. The spren themselves do not Surgebind, it is a Nahel bond with a human that gives it a life, and a mind, and gives the human the ability to Surgebind. Void spren behave similarly. I am unsure if there are a True Spren equivalent, but I do know that singers/listeners can bond with Void Spren to become Singers or Regals. As is the nature of a spren-human/singer bond, the spren gets something out of it (for void spren idk what it is, for True Spren, a mind) and the human/singer get's a form of Investiture and power. (i.e humans get Surgebinding, which is dependent on the spren involved, and the Singers get a form of power, which could make them a regular Singer, or a Regal, depending on the void spren.)

In short, Void Spren cannot Voidbind anymore than True Spren can Surgebind

[bmcclure7]

7 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated said:

Ok, so you admit that not everything supernatural must come from a magic system, so why must these be Voidbinding?

Lift uses Lifelight, was awake during the occupation with no sideffects other than not being able to use Abrasion, something not even Kaladin was able to do.

Not neccesarily though Odium does not directly cause anything on your list.

 

  The fused use void light and were also awake. They are still surge binders  I failed to see how that should be different With lift.

 True not everything  That is supernatural  Is a magic system but supernatural abilities are by definition. Dalinar got his memory erased not the ability to erase his memory. That's the difference.  The unmade and void Spren demonstrate  Consistency with Passion manipulation that would only indicate that they have an ability the hence it must come from a magic system not just a supernatural event. 

[bmcclure7]

1 minute ago, Silasalis said:

If by 'high spren,' you mean highspren themselves, or True Spren (The spren that can form Nahel Bonds and give humans the ability to Surgebind) then in both cases, you have been misinformed. The spren themselves do not Surgebind, it is a Nahel bond with a human that gives it a life, and a mind, and gives the human the ability to Surgebind. Void spren behave similarly. I am unsure if there are a True Spren equivalent, but I do know that singers/listeners can bond with Void Spren to become Singers or Regals. As is the nature of a spren-human/singer bond, the spren gets something out of it (for void spren idk what it is, for True Spren, a mind) and the human/singer get's a form of Investiture and power. (i.e humans get Surgebinding, which is dependent on the spren involved, and the Singers get a form of power, which could make them a regular Singer, or a Regal, depending on the void spren.)

In short, Void Spren cannot Voidbind anymore than True Spren can Surgebind

Wrong  We have seen Spren surge binding on screen. Syl dos it multiple times. It is literally how she flys. 

[Frustration]

1 minute ago, bmcclure7 said:

The fused use void light and were also awake. They are still surge binders  I failed to see how that should be different With lift.

Because it isn't red, meaning it's a natural system, not a co-opted one.

1 minute ago, bmcclure7 said:

Wrong  We have seen Spren surge binding on screen. Syl dos it multiple times. It is literally how she flys. 

No, she flies because spren are not bound by gravity.

3 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

True not everything  That is supernatural  Is a magic system but supernatural abilities are by definition. Dalinar got his memory erased not the ability to erase his memory. That's the difference.  The unmade and void Spren demonstrate  Consistency with Passion manipulation that would only indicate that they have an ability the hence it must come from a magic system not just a supernatural event. 

So is shapeshifting surgebinging? What about the ability to change forms?

[bmcclure7]

7 minutes ago, Ookla the Frustrated said:

Because it isn't red, meaning it's a natural system, not a co-opted one.

No, she flies because spren are not bound by gravity.

So is shapeshifting surgebinging? What about the ability to change forms?

The fused light isn't red either its violet.

how about when she uses adhesion are you saying that's not surge binding?

no a Spren shapeshift isn't a magic system because it is no more supernatural then me walking is. Same with the ability to change forms. 

[Frustration]

4 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

The fused light isn't red either its violet.

Their eyes and soul are

4 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

how about when she uses adhesion are you saying that's not surge binding?

No, she can use surgebinding, but that's not how she flies.

4 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

no a Spren shapeshift isn't a magic system because it is no more supernatural then me walking is. Same with the ability to change forms. 

Which is the same with Midnight essence, or Nergaoul, or Yelig-nar or stormform's lightning.

[bmcclure7]

3 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated said:

Their eyes and soul are

No, she can use surgebinding, but that's not how she flies.

Which is the same with Midnight essence, or Nergaoul, or Yelig-nar or stormform's lightning.

Except if that where true non void Spren would be able to do it.  

[Frustration]

5 hours ago, bmcclure7 said:

Except if that where true non void Spren would be able to do it.  

Cusichech creates illusionary waves and makes people watching it feel drained, as well as having a perfect internal clock. But that isn't surgebinding.

And yet no other spren can do that, it's unique, just like the unmade are.

[Going_North_cal]

This is easily the most polite, yet most argumentative conversation I've ever seen AND partaken in lol

[bmcclure7]

11 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated said:

Cusichech creates illusionary waves and makes people watching it feel drained, as well as having a perfect internal clock. But that isn't surgebinding.

And yet no other spren can do that, it's unique, just like the unmade are.

Isnt it an unmade?

[+Invocation]

4 minutes ago, bmcclure7 said:

Isnt it an unmade?

Cusicesh is not as unmade as far as we know. There's a theory that it is actually Dai-Gonarthis, but from what we know of that particular Unmade (assuming it actually was involved in the Scouring of Aimia), Cusicesh's light draining sensation seems a lot lighter than what it would be doing if it was actually the Black Fisher.

[cometaryorbit]

Yeah, all the Unmade names are known (and there are confirmed to be only nine) so I think Cusicesh is a "normal" (Honor/Cultivation affiliated) but unusually Invested spren (though not to the level of Stormfather/Nightwatcher/Sibling).

--

I am thoroughly confused about the entire concept of Voidbinding. After WOR I thought that's what the stormform lightning was, but it's not that. The Fused use Surgebinding, just a different form of it.

Renarin gets his Void-Truthwatching from Glys ... but Sja-anat was not historically known to corrupt  Nahel-bonding "true spren". So if that is where Voidbinding comes from, how is it known in the Rosharan culture, if it's only appearing now???

[StanLemon]

Brandon has said parts of Voidbinding had been seen in the past but that it hasn't been explored properly. Presumably other weirdness like Renarin's visions have happened in the past. Possibly from different sources such as other Unmade and utilizing different Surges

[bmcclure7]

1 hour ago, Ookla the Cometary said:

Yeah, all the Unmade names are known (and there are confirmed to be only nine) so I think Cusicesh is a "normal" (Honor/Cultivation affiliated) but unusually Invested spren (though not to the level of Stormfather/Nightwatcher/Sibling).

--

I am thoroughly confused about the entire concept of Voidbinding. After WOR I thought that's what the stormform lightning was, but it's not that. The Fused use Surgebinding, just a different form of it.

Renarin gets his Void-Truthwatching from Glys ... but Sja-anat was not historically known to corrupt  Nahel-bonding "true spren". So if that is where Voidbinding comes from, how is it known in the Rosharan culture, if it's only appearing now???

I'm pretty sure the lightning is also some form of voidbinding