Rhythm of Honor will be the key and Shardblades

[KaladinWorldsinger]

So in an earlier post, I outlined my theory that in book 5 there will be an event called night of sorrows, and one of my main predictions is that the stormfather dies.

Quote

https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/99266-night-of-sorrows-migration-to-shadesmar-theory/

Tldr: There is a lot of foreshadowing for stormfather's sacrifice and learning mercy by choosing not to kill people in his storm. However this will prolly have unintended consequences. Like the total splintering of Honor's investiture. I think anti-stormlight will be used to kill a weakened stormfather( after showing mercy) in a very specific way. Stormlight will become very limited. The darkest point of the book, where we almost lose hope

Now we know humans have a connection to Honor. The rhythm of anti stormlight sounds horrible to Navani, just like how the rhythm of anti-voidlight is horrible to fused' ears.

But If honor is completely splintered? I predict that humans will lose that intrinsic connection and not be properly able to sing it. Things will look dire.

Fanfic Time: I imagine Navani and Dalinar in a room after something catastrophic happens. Navani laments that it's all her fault. Dalinar would disagree and tell her not to blame herself. He will confess that he thinks there is no way to win against odium. Then he will say something like " If this is our destination, as long as my heart beats, I will keep resisting" Navani rests her head against his chest, somehow comforted by his decision. Then hears it

"Honor's rhythm is orderly and staccato"

Lub Dub. Lub Dub. Lub Dub. Lub Dub.......

"Honor still  lives in the hearts of men"

I predict that Navani will realize that the beat of a heart( both human or singer) is the beat to sing the rhythm of Honor and be one step closer to reviving Honor

Evidence: The wierd ten heartbeats rule for Shardblades. We know that the deadeye spren is getting partially revived everytime. Is it because it literally hears and connects with Honor?

Thoughts? 

[Benkinsky they/them]

I've no idea if this is how it's going to play out, but man what a cute scene that is, and what a fun way to return to "Honor lives on in the hearts of men"

reminds me of a certain character in Doctor Who.

[KaladinWorldsinger]

16 minutes ago, Benkinsky said:

what a cute scene that is

Dalinar and navani are really cute

17 minutes ago, Benkinsky said:

reminds me of a certain character in Doctor Who

Who?

[NameIess]

Problem with this theory: Human and parshendi heartbeats are almost certainly different. Also, heartbeats speed up when people do strenuous work, or are under stress, and that makes shardblades summon more quickly. If your heart had to attune Honor's rhythm to summon a shardblade, you would have to calm your heart in order to do so, and people with irregular heartbeats would be unable to summon them.

[KaladinWorldsinger]

8 hours ago, Ookla the unintelligible said:

Problem with this theory: Human and parshendi heartbeats are almost certainly different. 

Aww are we sure about that? Because humans and singers can interbreed safely, but that would be impossible if their hearts are fundamentally different right? It's not like carapace which is an external structure,The heart is the important organ.

Quote

Also, heartbeats speed up when people do strenuous work, or are under stress, and that makes shardblades summon more quickly. If your heart had to attune Honor's rhythm to summon a shardblade, you would have to calm your heart in order to do so, and people with irregular heartbeats would be unable to summon them.

I actually don't think this refutes my theory as the heartbeats are not the rhythm of Honor, heartbeats are the beats in the rhythm of Honor. And a song which has a good beat can be sped up with no problem, it will still be the same song.

I do think people with irregular heartbeats can't summon Shardblades. Do we know any who can?

[Frustration he/him]

10 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Aww are we sure about that? Because humans and singers can interbreed safely, but that would be impossible if their hearts are fundamentally different right? It's not like carapace which is an external structure,The heart is the important organ.

Singers would not be abke to interbreed with humans without investiture making it possible. Basicaly the spiritual realm just greenlights it, and allows it to happen.

However, their heartbeat is like humans

Spoiler

AndrewStirlingMacDonald

A Parshendi heartbeat, is it thump-thump thump-thump like a human?

Brandon Sanderson

It is very human-esque.

Calamity Philadelphia signing (Feb. 20, 2016)

10 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

I actually don't think this refutes my theory as the heartbeats are not the rhythm of Honor, heartbeats are the beats in the rhythm of Honor. And a song which has a good beat can be sped up with no problem, it will still be the same song.

But it won't be the same rhythm, the listeners used the Rhythm of Peace to track time for the reason that it was consistant.

10 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

I do think people with irregular heartbeats can't summon Shardblades. Do we know any who can?

We have yet to see any evidence that anyone can't

Edited November 27, 2021 by Ookla the Frustrated

[KaladinWorldsinger]

6 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated said:

Singers would not be abke to interbreed with humans without investiture making it possible. Basicaly the spiritual realm just greenlights it, and allows it to happen.

Wait what??? I had no idea this was a thing. Is this some WoB I don't know about? Where does investiture come into the process?

6 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated said:

But it won't be the same rhythm, the listeners used the Rhythm of Peace to track time for the reason that it was consistant.

Good point. So the rhythm of a song changes if it's sped up? I don't know much about music, I am afraid. 

6 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated said:

We have yet to see any evidence that anyone can't

Hmm. People with irregular heartbeats and heart problems are probably not healthy enough to be warriors and shardbearers. So I still think it's possible

Also, what's with so many people with the name Ookla the something? What does it mean?

[Frustration he/him]

2 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Wait what??? I had no idea this was a thing. Is this some WoB I don't know about? Where does investiture come into the process?

It's a bit of conjecture on my part, Life has natural pathways in the spiritual realm, which lets life be similar on different planets. And since Singers are crustations, or close rather, not mamals, those pathways are needed, biology on it's own isn't enough.

2 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Good point. So the rhythm of a song changes if it's sped up? I don't know much about music, I am afraid. 

It's not music, it's more echo's of the Spiritual realm, and they don't change.

2 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Also, what's with so many people with the name Ookla the something? What does it mean?

It's Ookla season, everyone changes their name to Ookla the ____ in honor of Peter Ahlstroms birthday, and we go until State of the Sanderson.

[KaladinWorldsinger]

8 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated said:

11 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Wait what??? I had no idea this was a thing. Is this some WoB I don't know about? Where does investiture come into the process?

It's a bit of conjecture on my part, Life has natural pathways in the spiritual realm, which lets life be similar on different planets. And since Singers are crustations, or close rather, not mamals, those pathways are needed, biology on it's own isn't enough.

But female mateform singers have breasts right? So they are mammals. Their biology could be compatible without the need for investiture.

 

8 hours ago, Ookla the Frustrated said:

It's Ookla season, everyone changes their name to Ookla the ____ in honor of Peter Ahlstroms birthday, and we go until State of the Sanderson

What's Ookla?

[Frustration he/him]

3 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

But female mateform singers have breasts right? So they are mammals. Their biology could be compatible without the need for investiture.

They don't have hair, and are thus not mammals. Also they grow gems inside of them, that alone should kill the offspring.

3 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

What's Ookla?

Peter Ahlstrom's username on Time Waster's Guide.

[NameIess]

On 11/28/2021 at 3:50 AM, KaladinWorldsinger said:

But female mateform singers have breasts right? So they are mammals. Their biology could be compatible without the need for investiture.

Humans are incompatible with every mammal on the face of the planet earth, some of which are very similar genetically speaking. Parshmen grow storming carapace armor. How exactly are the carapace armor genes supposed to be compatible with human's lack of carapace armor genes? Who knows what Parsh blood uses to carry oxygen, how many proteins make their skin color black and red, or what materials make up their teeth, fingernails, and carapace. Humans and Parshmen would be 100% biologically incompatible without investiture.

On 11/28/2021 at 7:14 AM, Ookla the Frustrated said:

They don't have hair, and are thus not mammals. Also they grow gems inside of them, that alone should kill the offspring.

Parshmen do have hair, although it is different than human hair.

[Frustration he/him]

9 hours ago, Ookla the unintelligible said:

Parshmen do have hair, although it is different than human hair.

They have hairstrands, which biologically speaking is not hair the way we think of it, it's more a fiber chain.

[Benkinsky they/them]

On 26.11.2021 at 11:29 AM, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Who?

Unsure how to mark Spoilers here, but:

The Master. The drums that Professor Yana hears (that the Master also always heard, but this is more about his Persona as Professor Yana) that turn out to be the same rythm as the double heartbeat of a Time Lord. dum dum dum dum. dum dum dum dum. dum dum dum dum.

and then later we also learn more about that, why he always heard that. But here I mostly thought of the heartbeat/war drums sound that was always there.

[Robin Sedai she/her]

Nice to see another Doctor Who fan!

You can mark spoilers by pressing the eye button (it should be between the quotes and emoji) and typing the spoiler inside the box that pops out.

[KaladinWorldsinger]

13 minutes ago, Benkinsky said:

Unsure how to mark Spoilers here, but:

The Master. The drums that Professor Yana hears (that the Master also always heard, but this is more about his Persona as Professor Yana) that turn out to be the same rythm as the double heartbeat of a Time Lord. dum dum dum dum. dum dum dum dum. dum dum dum dum.

and then later we also learn more about that, why he always heard that. But here I mostly thought of the heartbeat/war drums sound that was always there.

I totally could have guessed that. Nice to see another doctor who fan.

[Benkinsky they/them]

2 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

I totally could have guessed that. Nice to see another doctor who fan.

It's a very good show. I appreciate that someone responded to the comment

 

[KaladinWorldsinger]

Sorry for reviving my own thread, but i definitely have very compelling evidence now to support my theory. This is so obvious now, i guarantee you will facepalm.

Storms are connected to Honor

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Shallan, having had a short breather, started to reemerge. Veil retreated, letting Shallan lean up against Adolin. He, though tense at first, let her do so.

She rested her head on his chest, listening to his heartbeat. His life.

Pulsing within him like the thunder of a captive storm.

Not convinced? Syl will make it waay clearer.

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She zipped into the inmost, darkest part of the storm, and she became its heartbeat. Light-thunder. Light-thunder. Light-thunder.

Navani talking about rhythm of Honor

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There was a beat to it. One that Raboniel’s rhythm only hinted at. Navani could sing the tone and feel the gemstones respond. It was like having a stronger singer beside her—she could adapt her voice to match. The Stormlight itself guided her—providing a control, with a beat and rhythm.

And later, for rhythm of war

Quote

The rhythms snapped into alignment, a burst of chaotic notes from Raboniel—bounded by a regular, orderly pulse from Navani.

Heartbeats. Drumbeats. Signals. Together.

Eshonai's death

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She had no eyes, but she suddenly had an awareness— the storm. She had become the storm. She felt every rumble of thunder as her heartbeat.

One more smaller example

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Another spike to the heart. More warmth bleeding out, blood flowing with

thunderous heartbeats.

Quote

 

I fact, the cliche of your 'heart beating like thunder' is used sooo many times, I think Brandon went ahead and made it part of his lore.

I am now completely confident that the rhythm of Honor contains heartbeats. I think this is very much confirmed.

Tinfoil:

And maybe even the rhythm of odium( it does say that their heartbeats synced in making rhythm of war)

It could also be that every shards rhythm has heartbeats, meaning heartbeats could be the rhythm of adonalsium! 

My reasoning is:

Elantris spoilers

Spoiler

The seons lose their sanity when thier masters become Reod Elantrians, exactly when thier heart stops beating.

Also, these quotes

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How could she possibly have anticipated the wonderful intimacy of feeling his breath on her hair, of listening to his heartbeat, louder to her than her own. The rhythm of his life.

Rhythm of his life itself, or maybe his soul?

Quote

The souls of Fused were dark flames that pulsed like a beating heart

The flames represents the soul in shadesmar, and there really does not need to be an allusion to a beating heart but there is. Maybe because souls, spiritwebs and spiritual realm are all created by ado, and it's his rhythm??

Thoughts on both theories please!

@Frustration strike me down with your divine (shardic) fury

Edited February 19, 2022 by KaladinWorldsinger

[Frustration he/him]

4 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

 

@Frustration strike me down with your divine (shardic) fury

This is not the place I thought I would have in the community but I accept it.

4 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

Elantris spoilers

  Reveal hidden contents

The seons lose their sanity when thier masters become Reod Elantrians, exactly when thier heart stops beating.

 

So while I can't say for certain that this isn't the case, it's much more likely that it isn't

WoB

Spoiler

Questioner (paraphrased)

Why do Seons become broken when their person is taken by the Shaod?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

A Seon has a Spiritual Connection with their user. When the Shaod takes the user, it messes up the spiritual nature of the user, and it really messes up the nature of the Seon.

Alloy of Law release party (Nov. 7, 2011)

 

Other than that good job collecting evidence.

[KaladinWorldsinger]

4 hours ago, Frustration said:

So while I can't say for certain that this isn't the case, it's much more likely that it isn't

WoB

  Hide contents

Questioner (paraphrased)

Why do Seons become broken when their person is taken by the Shaod?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

A Seon has a Spiritual Connection with their user. When the Shaod takes the user, it messes up the spiritual nature of the user, and it really messes up the nature of the Seon.

Alloy of Law release party (Nov. 7, 2011)

Spoiler

Actually, this WoB doesn't vseem to contradict anything I said because the Shaod definitely messes up something, instead of just adding stuff to the spiritweb. We know Reod Elantrians will register as  half dead and half alive people to shardblades. They will cut through the dead parts and fizzle thru the alive parts. Maybe the heart dying is what changes the spiritual nature of a person? Maybe heartbeats really are connected to the soul or adonalsium.

What I want to hear more of your thoughts on is why do the heartbeats sync during the creation of rhythm of war? It makes it seem like odium also is connected to heartbeats. 

4 hours ago, Frustration said:

Other than that good job collecting evidence.

It's amazing what you can do with a digital book and a word search when you are bored and have too much time

[Frustration he/him]

6 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Actually, this WoB doesn't vseem to contradict anything I said because the Shaod definitely messes up something, instead of just adding stuff to the spiritweb. We know Reod Elantrians will register as  half dead and half alive people to shardblades. They will cut through the dead parts and fizzle thru the alive parts. Maybe the heart dying is what changes the spiritual nature of a person? Maybe heartbeats really are connected to the soul or adonalsium.

 

Spoiler

I'd doubt it as parshmen's souls got messed up to but they retained their heartbeat.

I'd even aregue they were more messed up.

 

7 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

What I want to hear more of your thoughts on is why do the heartbeats sync during the creation of rhythm of war? It makes it seem like odium also is connected to heartbeats. 

I think that's more poetic writing, I don't think humans could survive with a heartbeat like that.

[KaladinWorldsinger]

1 hour ago, Frustration said:

think that's more poetic writing, I don't think humans could survive with a heartbeat like that.

But they have similar heartbeats right?

Spoiler

AndrewStirlingMacDonald

A Parshendi heartbeat, is it thump-thump thump-thump like a human?

 

Brandon Sanderson

It is very human-esque.

 

[Frustration he/him]

2 hours ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

But they have similar heartbeats right?

  Reveal hidden contents

AndrewStirlingMacDonald

A Parshendi heartbeat, is it thump-thump thump-thump like a human?

 

Brandon Sanderson

It is very human-esque.

 

Yes but the rhythm of War is chaotic with a steady undertone, I don't think that's survivable.

[KaladinWorldsinger]

21 hours ago, Frustration said:

Yes but the rhythm of War is chaotic with a steady undertone, I don't think that's survivable.

I am not saying that the human heartbeats are mimicing the rhythm of war lol,that's impossible. I am saying that the rhythm of odium may also contain heartbeats as it's underlying beat, and then it syncs with the same beat of Honor. The whole rhythm is chaotic, but it has a simple beat which Navani's and Raboniels heartbeats can sync to.

Am I making any sense?

[Frustration he/him]

1 minute ago, KaladinWorldsinger said:

I am not saying that the human heartbeats are mimicing the rhythm of war lol,that's impossible. I am saying that the rhythm of odium may also contain heartbeats as it's underlying beat, and then it syncs with the same beat of Honor. The whole rhythm is chaotic, but it has a simple beat which Navani's and Raboniels heartbeats can sync to.

Am I making any sense?

Okay I see what you mean now.

[Hazekiller16 she/her]

On 11/28/2021 at 5:14 AM, Frustration said:

They don't have hair, and are thus not mammals. Also they grow gems inside of them, that alone should kill the offspring.

Peter Ahlstrom's username on Time Waster's Guide.

bruh literally hairstrands and hair is just dead fibers that grow off mammals like what it's like hair? and what does the gem have to do with it like whatchoo on homie

-not the person who owns this account