Taln never broke!

[Smye]

There exists a theory, which has been RAFO'd, that the ardent Pai is herself Paliah. IF this is true, I suspect that Taln, the bearer of agonies, was NOT the one who broke. Instead, Paliah, who had recently been executed in Kholinar under the guise of being Pai was the one who broke... Thoughts?

[+Harrycrapper]

Hmmm I'd need to read the segment again but I believe when the Stormfather gives his info dump on the Heralds in OB he said that none of them managed to die in the 4000 years since they sent Taln back to Braize alone. At least, that's the implication of what he said, it might have been worded in such a way that it was technically inclusive of this scenario. 

[Brgst13]

Yeah, Taln was the only Herald sent to Braize the last time.  In addition, all sources talk about it, as well as Ash saying that the rest of the Heralds abandoned him.

[seriodor]

Isn't this pretty much confirmed? We know only Taln was on Braize, and in RoW we saw that the Everstorm was a workaround Odium had been building for centuries.

[+robardin]

He's certainly pretty broken now, in any case.

[Smye]

1 hour ago, seriodor said:

Isn't this pretty much confirmed? We know only Taln was on Braize, and in RoW we saw that the Everstorm was a workaround Odium had been building for centuries.

Disagreed, Kalak (and others) are quite certain he’d never have broken (as is he). 
 

1 hour ago, Brgst13 said:

Yeah, Taln was the only Herald sent to Braize the last time.  In addition, all sources talk about it, as well as Ash saying that the rest of the Heralds abandoned him.

Whenever a herald died, they were sent. Hence the Pai theory 

[seriodor]

6 minutes ago, Smye said:

Disagreed, Kalak (and others) are quite certain he’d never have broken (as is he). 
 

Whenever a herald died, they were sent. Hence the Pai theory 

Oh I see, I'm dumb. Yeah I see how this theory could work. I still think that with the Everstorm being a new thing that Odium has been building for centuries, it doesn't seem likely that anyone needed to break for them to come back.

[Seloun]

Just to make this clear, the theory seems to go like this:

- At the last Desolation, Taln is the only one to die and return to Braize

- But not too long ago, Pai gets executed, and if she's a Herald, there's now 2 Heralds on Braize

- Pai!Herald more or less immediately gives up and comes back to Roshar, triggering the True Desolation

We know that only one Herald has to give up to trigger the Desolation:

Quote

HONOR LET THE POWER BLIND HIM TO THE TRUTH—THAT WHILE SPREN AND GODS CANNOT BREAK THEIR OATHS, MEN CAN AND WILL. THE TEN HERALDS WERE SEALED UPON DAMNATION, TRAPPING THE VOIDBRINGERS THERE. HOWEVER, IF ANY ONE OF THE TEN AGREED TO BEND HIS OATH AND LET VOIDBRINGERS PAST, IT OPENED A FLOOD. THEY COULD ALL RETURN.

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 406). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

The Stormfather not being aware of this doesn't seem to be a huge obstacle, since the Stormfather doesn't really have a direct Connection to the Heralds; specifically, he only knows of one when Dalinar asks about it in Oathbringer:

Quote

Dalinar lowered the Honorblade, looking eastward toward the Origin. Even through the stone walls, he knew that was where to find the Stormfather. “Do you know where they are?”

I have told you. I do not see all. Only glimpses in the storms.

“Do you know where they are?”

Only one, he said with a rumble. I … have seen Ishar. He curses me at night, even as he names himself a god. He seeks death. His own. Perhaps that of every man.

Sanderson, Brandon. Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 638). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

One potential issue might be that we'd expect the Heralds to know - they feel Jezrien's death, for example, although that's an exceptional event. Then again, Kalak doesn't seem to know who survived in the prologue, so it's unclear if anyone would have noticed (especially if Palli just returned immediately):

Quote

The place of meeting was in the shadow of a large rock formation, a spire rising into the sky. As always, the ten of them had decided upon it before the battle. The survivors would make their way here. Oddly, only one of the others was waiting for him. Jezrien. Had the other eight all died? It was possible. The battle had been so furious this time, one of the worst. The enemy was growing increasingly tenacious.

...

“What is this, Jezrien?” Kalak asked. “Where are the others?”

“Departed.” Jezrien’s voice was calm, deep, regal. Though he hadn’t worn a crown in centuries, his royal manner lingered. He always seemed to know what to do. “You might call it a miracle. Only one of us died this time.”

Sanderson, Brandon. The Way of Kings (The Stormlight Archive, Book 1) (p. 16). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

Another potential issue: We know that Palliah was the old ardent Shallan almost runs into in TWoK. This is not an insurmountable obstacle, as there's a lot of time between that point and Pai's execution in Kholinar, but their appearances don't seem to match. Lightweaving is a possibility, but presumably this would require either her Honorblade or having bound an appropriate spren.

It's also possible that Pai is another Herald (Chanarach and Vedel appear to unaccounted for). Or that one of the Heralds that haven't been on screen all the time had died and also returned. But Pai's odd behavior and the fact that we know for sure she died (and the timing of when it happened) makes her a better candidate than 'some Herald we've never seen died off screen'.

[ThurgreatMarshall]

14 hours ago, Seloun said:

Another potential issue: We know that Palliah was the old ardent Shallan almost runs into in TWoK. 

At this point, I think Brandon is backtracking on that assertion. Back before Oathbringer he said that Pailiah was the ardent in the Palaneum, but when asked to confirm that information 2018 he seems to point only to Dova (Battar) as the herald in Kharbranth. (Source). 

It doesn't support or harm OP's assertion one way or another, just seems to be a WoB that's changed over time.

[Brgst13]

Another issue: Taln returned to warn Kholinar at the end of WoK, while Pai was not executed until after part 4 of WoR.

[Ba-Ado-Fisherman]

I do believe that Taln did not break.  I think that’s a huge part of his characterization going forward:  his undying loyalty to Honor and his oaths.  Even after 4500 years of torture, Taln would not give in if it meant dooming mankind again.

 

I suspect this will all be explained when we get the Taln flashback chapters, but my guess is that he was sent back in some other way.  Perhaps the oathpact was broken at the end of WoK, allowing him to return without giving in to torture?

[+Quazzi]

14 hours ago, Brgst13 said:

Another issue: Taln returned to warn Kholinar at the end of WoK, while Pai was not executed until after part 4 of WoR.

Right and he also said he had failed which makes me believe he did break. Taln could possibly not remember with his condition so maybe he just assumed he broke since he is back on Roshar but from the WOK epilogue it would indicate Taln did break. 

Edited November 26, 2020 by Quazzi

[LewsTherinTelescope]

Something I'd note is this Ishar quote from 111 (emphasis mine):

Quote

“I am Herald of Heralds, sole bearer of the Oathpact. I am more than I once was and I will become yet more. I shall absorb your power, Odium, and become a god among gods, Adonalsium reborn.”

Odds are, this is just insanity. But what if it's not, and, just as the Heralds in the past shifted the burden onto Taln, Ishar recently shifted it onto himself? And since he did not go back to Braize, there was no longer anyone holding the Desolation back. In other words.... #BlameIshar

Personally, I'm not fully convinced Taln can break. Partly due to probably not being sane enough to agree to bend, but also partly due to Intent madness. While I don't think the Intents of the Heralds are exactly their Divine Attributes, I think the latter give a strong hint to the former. And Taln's are Dependable and Resourceful. What happens when someone goes insane along those sorts of lines, taking them to the very most extreme?