Why?

[Griff]

Hi all im relatively new to this site had about 4 or 5 posts, and this is just a query more den anythin,

Why is every one so excited bout vasher and nightblood being in the SA?

I read warbreaker after WOR after I saw everyone on here going nuts that vasher and nightblood were in it and how excited every one was about it, and I just dont get it, vasher wasnt even the best character in warbreaker and nightblood wasnt exactly good in it in my opinion,ya its a sword that talks, so what? its not like the interaction between them was even interesting,

so is it just the fact of a cosmere character or what? because otherwise I dont see the big deal,or am I missing something big?

Secondly, why is renarin a proto KR? firstly too many kholins are already and secondly makes no sense for him to be one, was it only done because of the two brothers adolin was the likely one?so was it only done cos ppl wouldnt of guessed it? Renarin is a highly forgettable character does nothing in either book to grab the readers attention, so again why a proto KR? makes no sense?

[Delightful]

Hi, welcome!

 

To answer your first question, your (apparent) lack of excitement might have to do with the order you read the books in. For those of us who read Warbreaker first, firstly Vasher was completely unexpected and awesome (unless you're like me and you didn't realise it was Vasher....nevermind). Secondly, with everything we know about Szeth, his madness, his obsession with killing people because the Stone Shamans demand it of him as Truthless, and then, completely unexpectedly (more so because it's from another world), Szeth is given the sword that's obssessed with killing, that can literally drive it's holder mad - and he's mad to begin with! Speaking for myself, when I read that line my stomach dropped and all I could do for the next ten minutes or so was stare at the book with my mouth wide open thinking "this is not good. This is not good. This is not going to be good. What on earth is Szeth going to do with NIGHTBLOOD? No no no no no no no.....'. So yeah, that might be it.

 

Secondly - you're right, a lot of the Kholins are proto-Radiants, we don't yet know why this is happening or how it works (as far s I know).

Adolin is possibly a proto-Radiant himself, so it's unlikely to be about surprising us readers.

As to Renarin being a forgettabl character - he doesn't get a ton of page space, but when you read between the lines he's an incredible person. (I'm waiting for Feather to charge in here and defend him, she writes essays about him). In short, he's always really caring of his brother, in TWoK he runs forward during the chasmfiend hunt to help fight even though he has no armour or weapons and DOES have a blood weakness. Then, looking at the fact that he's a proto-Radiant and must hear Shardblades screaming whenever he touches one, he carries his around for a week to bond it, then runs out and summons it to protect Adolin during the arena duel, summons it again to cut his way into the Oathgate.....he's a quiet, but awesome character, and I'm sure we're going to see more of him in future books. 

(Actually he's confirmed as a viewpoint character for one of the last five SA books, he's definitely not insignificant)

 

I will also add, I did find Renarin's revelation of being a KR to be rather sudden and unfulfilling, even though I already strongly suspected he would be a KR (Brandon personalised Feather's TES a while back with the enscription "Renarin has a spren no one else sees' so I was fairly certain that this was coming). It could possibly have been foreshadowed better.

Edited May 10, 2014 by Delightful

[GreyPilgrim]

Welcome, Griff, since I haven't seen any of you posts yet!

To answer your questions, I think people got so excited about Vasher and Nightblood because 1. We love cosmere crossovers, and they were pretty much the two most blatant crossovers we've yet seen, 2. People genuinely like Vasher and Nightblood as characters. I personally thought they had a cool dynamic, and 3. Because it will he fascinating to see how both of them interact with Roshar and its Investiture. We get really excited about the ways different types of Investiture function and interact, how they are similar and different. Vasher invites some cool speculation about the similarities between Stormlight and Breath. Nightblood is even more fascinating, particularly given some WoBs we have that he is the same thing as a Shardblade. That means that his Cognitive aspect is similar to that of spren and... I think you get the point.

About Renarin. First of all, he has actually always had a lot of attention from readers (FeatherWriter always comes to mind when he is mentioned, but he has long been a fan favorite in general). Second, when it is closely considered, Renarin is actually a great, logical choice for a Radiant. His life situation has certainly left him broken to an extent, which is definitely a large part of Radiantness. There has been some speculation/attention given to the relation between Radiants and mental illness, given that Kaladin has Seasonal Affective Disorder and suicidal thoughts, Shallan is self-delusional, there's been some speculation Dalinar has mild bipolar disorder. Renarin's autism makes him fit in with them. The reasons he is a Radiant, a Truthwatcher in particular, will without doubt become clearer with the next books, but overall I wouldn't call his being a Radiant surprising, neither logically or for his being a minor character.

 

Edit: 

Edited May 10, 2014 by GreyPilgrim

[Griff]

I take your point about the reading order, as since I new from this forum about vasher and nightblood already and given how excited ppl were on this maybe my expectations were a little off. But szeth doesnt strike me as mad in the traditional sense, at the start he seems guilt ridden about what he has to do but toward the middle hes just angry no one has the ability to stop him, an at the end I think its more the realisation that he was right and the stone shamans were wrong about the radiants and he tried clinging to his belief they were right to absolve his own guilt from what he has done and seemed more anger than deranged madness to me.

I really hope adolin and elhokar arent proto radiants in waiting, there is too many kholins already and I find it a bit much being honest, I dont renarin should be one and if im honest even question dalinar being one, esp since he thinks hes commander of them which I just dont see, as for renarin I get that he is brave but its a foolish way and he ends up a liability rather then a help with the chasmfiend, and I get the screaming shardblade when he goes to try help his brother but its not like he did anythin with it, I dont consider standing there as amazing, if he did something useful while it was screaming than yes it would be but when he doesnt do anythin just holes it I dont think its all that great, maybe im just reading it wrong, I just dont see it with renarin, far better canidates for KR we see in the books in my opinion

Edited May 10, 2014 by Griff

[Griff]

@ greypilgrim, did anyone notice renarin was autistic til brandon said it? he always just struck me as socially awkward, with a kinda lack of self belief from feeling inadequate cos of his ' viewed' lack of fighting ability etc I didnt pick up on the authism, and assumed the box was just a nervous habit, and since wasnt in WOK as far as I remember how could it be seen as anythin other den a nervous habit

[Delightful]

(Please punctuate your sentences. It's hard to work out what you're trying to say)

 

Well, I don't think Szeth is mad in necessarily the traditional sense of mad, but he's a completely ruthless killer. He's always felt guilty for his murders, and as time goes on he hears the screaming of the people he's killed more and more. From Kaladin and Dalinar's(Adolin's?) perpectives, his anger, wide eyes etc. show that he's not completely sane. When Adolin insists on fighting him, Szeth says (not verbatim) "I suppose I can kill one more on my own time" - he's become so angry and grief-stricken and horrified by his own actions that he's become desensitized to them, at least to some extent. He may be justified, and angry, especially from realising that he isn't Truthless and he shouldn't have had to be an assassin, however he's clearly not mentally or emotionally healthy. Pair that with a mad talking sword, and I really feel the only way he can go from here (or, the most likely way, at least) is downhill.

 

The point with Renarin summoning the sword to help his brother is not so much about what he actually did, but what must have been going through his mind. He knows that he has a blood weakness and may have a fit at any given moment. He knows if he summons the sword he will hear horrific screams drilling through his head. He knows he's not wearing any armour, and the best dueler he knows is fighting a 4-on-1 losing battle. Despite that, he runs out, forgoing physical and mental safety, to protect Adolin in a battle he knows he can't win. He is a strong candidate for most brave Stormlight character full stop.

 

 

@ greypilgrim, did anyone notice renarin was autistic til brandon said it? he always just struck me as socially awkward, with a kinda lack of self belief from feeling inadequate cos of his ' viewed' lack of fighting ability etc I didnt pick up on the authism, and assumed the box was just a nervous habit, and since wasnt in WOK as far as I remember how could it be seen as anythin other den a nervous habit

Some people did notice this, in particular a friend of FeatherWriter's from tumblr who is mildly autistic herself (If I remember correctly?) and noticed her own reactions in Renarin.

[Aleksiel]

@ greypilgrim, did anyone notice renarin was autistic til brandon said it? he always just struck me as socially awkward, with a kinda lack of self belief from feeling inadequate cos of his ' viewed' lack of fighting ability etc I didnt pick up on the authism, and assumed the box was just a nervous habit, and since wasnt in WOK as far as I remember how could it be seen as anythin other den a nervous habit

 

Some people noticed and asked Brandon, not the other way around if I recall correctly. There are some discussions on it, you might want to check them out. Those are the first two that come to my mind.

 

Why do you have a problem with the Kholins being Radiants? The attraction of spren is based on brokenness and personality, so it's consistent and logical for Dalinar to have raised his sons in a spren-approved manner. I see no reason for Renarin not to be one. From a metatext perspective it was the most logical way of his character growth. In-world he's obviously broken enough and fits the in-book WoR description of Truthwatchers. I had some problems understanding how is he considered learned, but others pointed out his observance is one way to look at being learned. There's a thread on how the primary attribute attracts the spren and only after the bond starts forming is when the secondary attribute starts showing, which is a theory that resolved my problem with Shallan's honesty and Renarin's giving. I don't know if it will for you. 

 

About Vasher and Nightblood... Well, I suppose you just didn't like them as much. You might had wrong expectations of them when you started Warbreaker. They aren't the major characters and weren't intended to steal the book from Siri and Vivenna. Perhaps give them some time to grow on you. One can't always like all characters, so don't let it bother you. 

 

edit: link added

Edited May 10, 2014 by Aleksiel

[Griff]

sorry im using my phone so writing like its a txt.

I get what ur sayin bout szeth, and to a degree I agree with you. But given szeths questionable morals as u pointed out shouldnt nightblood of just killed him? like he did so many in warbreaker? by himself? so doesnt the fact nightblood didnt kill him outright say alot?

I no what you are sayin regards renarin but I see it differently, kaladin and dalinat both only grimanced when there blades screamed,

so given that couldnt we assume if day kept holding them they would be able to? by pushing it to the side so to speak?

given they both do with wounds they recieve, havin a hard time imagining the scream bein more debilitating than a wound.

[Aleksiel]

Kaladin didn't just grimaced when the Blade he touched screamed.

 

 

He raised his hands and snapped them together.

Catching the Blade.

Screaming.

Why could he hear screaming? Inside his head? Was that Syl’s voice?

It reverberated through Kaladin. That horrible, awful screech shook him, made his muscles tremble. He released the Shardblade with a gasp, falling backward.

Relis dropped the Blade as if bitten. He backed away, raising his hands to his head. “What is it? What is it! No, I didn’t kill you!” He shrieked as if in great pain, then ran across the sands and pulled open the door to the preparation room, fleeing inside. Kaladin heard his screams echoing inside the hallways there long after the man vanished.

 

You aren't giving Renarin nearly enough credit. 

[Griff]

@ aleksiel I think my problem with so many kholins bein proto radiants is this, how is dalinar broken?

before his visions he was the ' blackthorn' brilliant warrior and general, and he loved it, so not like he has PTSD, his wife died?

but he erased her memory so if that broke him the fact he wipes her from memory means can no longer be broken from it.

Jasnah? how is she broken? cos a child prodigy who smarter than most people? planning assassinations? dont see how she fits the broken.

Renarin I have already said y dont think he fits

elhokar just dont see it he is useless so unless self pity qualifys as broken....

Adolin doesnt seen anyway broken so how can he be?

Compare them with shallan and kaladin and how can day be considered broken

[GreyPilgrim]

sorry im using my phone so writing like its a txt.

I get what ur sayin bout szeth, and to a degree I agree with you. But given szeths questionable morals as u pointed out shouldnt nightblood of just killed him? like he did so many in warbreaker? by himself? so doesnt the fact nightblood didnt kill him outright say alot?

I no what you are sayin regards renarin but I see it differently, kaladin and dalinat both only grimanced when there blades screamed,

so given that couldnt we assume if day kept holding them they would be able to? by pushing it to the side so to speak?

given they both do with wounds they recieve, havin a hard time imagining the scream bein more debilitating than a wound.

 

Please use more proper English conventions. I have written dozens if not hundreds of coherent posts on my phone. 

 

Note that Renarin also could have been afraid of triggering a seizure, so that was an added factor in the screaming being bad for him.

 

About Szeth, no one is saying he is evil. Of course, to Nightblood, everyone is evil. But the point is that Szeth is an uncontrolled individual. We have seen him go on killing sprees before when directed to. Since he is going after the Stone Shamanate, with whom he has a bone to pick, he could well go nuts with Nightblood in a very terrifying way.

[signspace13]

sorry im using my phone so writing like its a txt.

I get what ur sayin bout szeth, and to a degree I agree with you. But given szeths questionable morals as u pointed out shouldnt nightblood of just killed him? like he did so many in warbreaker? by himself? so doesnt the fact nightblood didnt kill him outright say alot?

I no what you are sayin regards renarin but I see it differently, kaladin and dalinat both only grimanced when there blades screamed,

so given that couldnt we assume if day kept holding them they would be able to? by pushing it to the side so to speak?

given they both do with wounds they recieve, havin a hard time imagining the scream bein more debilitating than a wound.

 

shivers, no offence but if you are going to type like that from your phone wait until you get to a computer to post, I don't know if there are any rules about it, but personally it is rather annoying to read, I mean does your phone have auto correct? it is there for a reason. 

 

but in response to the thing on how Kaladin and Dalinar just grimacing, I don't think they held those blades for very long, and we don't know if it gets worse or not, so the idea that Renarin carried it around for something like a week ( I think it takes 5 days to bond a blade) is pretty incredible, I personally wasn't surprised when he turned out to be a radiant, but I have always been good at the whole subtle foreshadowing thing.

[Griff]

@ signspace 13 how many mistakes were in that?

[Aleksiel]

@ aleksiel I think my problem with so many kholins bein proto radiants is this, how is dalinar broken?

before his visions he was the ' blackthorn' brilliant warrior and general, and he loved it, so not like he has PTSD, his wife died?

but he erased her memory so if that broke him the fact he wipes her from memory means can no longer be broken from it.

Jasnah? how is she broken? cos a child prodigy who smarter than most people? planning assassinations? dont see how she fits the broken.

Renarin I have already said y dont think he fits

elhokar just dont see it he is useless so unless self pity qualifys as broken....

Adolin doesnt seen anyway broken so how can he be?

Compare them with shallan and kaladin and how can day be considered broken

 

 

Why do you compare any of them to Shallan's case? We have zero knowledge of what broke her, only more speculations. 

 

We don't know yet how Jasnah was broken and we may not find out until her book. Navani mentioned in WoR that Jasnah suddenly changed from a curious child to a cold and distant person, so something happened to her, but the specifics are no more than speculations.

 

Dalinar has been haunted by guilt ever since his brother's death until the end of WoR when he finally fought Szeth. Gavilar had asked Dalinar to follow the Codes on the very night he was killed, yet Dalinar drank so much he passed out. It's enough to break him, but it might have been something else. He'll have his own book, too.

 

Elhokar being a potential Radiant is a speculation. Yes, he sees some spren, but that can mean anything at this point. His father's death might have been enough to break him, the death of a loved one is a very traumatic event.

 

Adolin was said to 'snap' before murdering Sadeas. Whether or not he'll be a Radiant is an open discussion. We have WoB some Orders would approve of his actions, nothing more.

[GreyPilgrim]

shivers, no offence but if you are going to type like that from your phone wait until you get to a computer to post, I don't know if there are any rules about it, but personally it is rather annoying to read, I mean does your phone have auto correct? it is there for a reason.

From the site rules page:

This is a fan site for an author. We all know you can read. As such, we expect you to actually spell things out, rather than using shorthands like "u" for "you". We know you can do it, we believe in you! Don't use things like l337 speak. Capitalize sentences, use punctuation, that sort of thing.

So​ yes, there are rules. Let's stay civil, please.

@ aleksiel I think my problem with so many kholins bein proto radiants is this, how is dalinar broken?

before his visions he was the ' blackthorn' brilliant warrior and general, and he loved it, so not like he has PTSD, his wife died?

but he erased her memory so if that broke him the fact he wipes her from memory means can no longer be broken from it.

Jasnah? how is she broken? cos a child prodigy who smarter than most people? planning assassinations? dont see how she fits the broken.

Renarin I have already said y dont think he fits

elhokar just dont see it he is useless so unless self pity qualifys as broken....

Adolin doesnt seen anyway broken so how can he be?

Compare them with shallan and kaladin and how can day be considered broken?

Jasnah is harder to say.

Renarin lives in a world where soldiering is literally considered the most holy profession. His brother and father are two of the best warriors there are. He has epilepsy and therefore cannot fight. He has autism so has difficulties communicating. That can most certainly break someone.

Elhokar, we don't even know will be a Radiant. However, his paranoia could well contribute to brokenness.

It has been speculated that Adolin's killing Sadeas will break him enough to become a Radiant.

Shallan killed both her mother and her father and had to live for years with that as well as a violent father and a broken home. She has had it the worst.

Kaladin lost Tien, the brother he loved so much and constantly blames himself for everything. He is pretty broken.

Edit: ninja'd

Edited May 10, 2014 by GreyPilgrim

[maxal]

I understand you as I feel pretty much the same way.

 

I am currently reading Warbreaker, so yes, just like you I didn't get the whole hype over Vasher and Nighblood. In fact, when I read the famous line with Szeth and Nightblood: I didn't get it as I haven't read Warbreaker before. However, so far, I sort of like Vasher and his interactions with Nightblood are interesting. I wouldn't call him a favorite of mine, but he is interesting enough for me to understand why people are excited about it.

 

Renarin. Let's say I will try to stay away from this topic. I will just say he was a disappointing character for me in WoR. I didn't get why he got to be a KR so soon either, the revelation came out sort of flat for me too. Many people have express how his mental stress makes him such a great character, but I never felt that way. I do not get either why so many people like him so much as he doesn't do much. I never catch on he was autistic, so no it was not obvious to me either. The fact that a very few limited people were able to properly identify it does not make it obvious as I believe the average reader will never see it. I do not mind he is a KR (I mind how it was brought up and how it was written), especially not a Truthwatcher, which is, in my view a good choice for him. Now if Renarin had been made into some combat oriented order, I would have been raging mad as he is just not a warrior. I sort of was hoping he would learn, after WoK (and fight along side his brother), but the facts are he is quite inept with it. Now before some one launches me rocks, yes Renarin is not good with his plate. Kaladin reflects on it as he sees Moash mastering his in a much quicker way. Dalinar mentions how awkward Renarin is in his plate. The plate does not scream: he is just not cut for it. No bad here, he can be something else so yes Truthuwatcher sounds nice.

 

Personally, I like characters who are pro-active, who are doing things, which is probably why I am not jumping on the "Renarin is great" bandwagon. I thought he was a great side-kick for his brother, but I never saw him as anything more. This is probably why I am an Adolin fan and not a Renarin.

 

Personally, I do not mind if most Kohlin ends up as KR, except maybe Elhokar as I do not see what quality he may have to attract a spren to begin with. I do not mind seeing both brothers as KR. In fact, I am a die-hard fan of the "Adolin becomes a Dustbringer" theory. I might wailed like Feather if it doesn't turn out this way. Over all, Renarin being KR does not bother me so much as how it was treated and how his character was written in WoR.

[Delightful]

 

 

Rearing lives in a world where soldiering albuterol considered the most holy profession. 

I think I'm witnessing an attack of autocorrect here

 

Elhokar has also seen his father assassinated by a supernatural killer no one knows anything about, that no one could defeat. I think that snapped him, and lead to his paranoia, rather than the paranoia causing him to Snap, if thats what you were trying to say?

 

I always assumed Jasnah's snapping had to do with her heresy, I never connected Navani's comment. Nice spotting, Aleksiel

 

Ninja edit: . T

he fact that a very few limited people were able to properly identify it does not make it obvious as I believe the average reader will never see it.

 

I never said it was obvious - I certainly didn't pick up on it - just that it was there. I was replying to Griff, not trying to make a particular point .

 

 

Over all, Renarin being KR does not bother me so much as how it was treated and how his character was written in WoR.

 

Agreed. I only ever noticed Renarin from Feather's essays, basically, and I definitely thought his KR revelation was too sudden.

Edited May 10, 2014 by Delightful

[maxal]

. 

 

We don't know yet how Jasnah was broken and we may not find out until her book. Navani mentioned in WoR that Jasnah suddenly changed from a curious child to a cold and distant person, so something happened to her, but the specifics are no more than speculations.

 

Maybe it the way you wrote it, but something just pop into my head.... What if Jasnah was raped as a child? She would then have become very cold and distant as a coping mechanism. It would also explain why she did not search for any relationship, why she is so anxious in proposing one to Shallan....

 

Just some thoughts. I have never given it much thought until now.

[Delightful]

Maybe it the way you wrote it, but something just pop into my head.... What if Jasnah was raped as a child? She would then have become very cold and distant as a coping mechanism. It would also explain why she did not search for any relationship, why she is so anxious in proposing one to Shallan....

 

Just some thoughts. I have never given it much thought until now.

There is some evidence for that, in the scene following Jasnah's 'philosophy lesson'. I'll go see if I can find the quote somewhere.....

[maxal]

There is some evidence for that, in the scene following Jasnah's 'philosophy lesson'. I'll go see if I can find the quote somewhere.....

 

Oh please do!

[Aleksiel]

I always assumed Jasnah's snapping had to do with her heresy, I never connected Navani's comment. Nice spotting, Aleksiel

 

Thanks!

 

 

Maybe it the way you wrote it, but something just pop into my head.... What if Jasnah was raped as a child? She would then have become very cold and distant as a coping mechanism. It would also explain why she did not search for any relationship, why she is so anxious in proposing one to Shallan....

 

Just some thoughts. I have never given it much thought until now.

 

It's certainly one possibility. Though I have some counter arguments. She was the king's daughter, who would dare touch her? Certainly not Gavilar, else she wouldn't have spoken fondly of him. Jasnah used to be close to Navani, she would have told her mother. I can't imagine someone wronging her without being executed afterwards. 

 

Jasnah general attitude towards men and her reaction to Karbranthina thugs hint towards this direction, however I am more inclined to believe men like that rapped and killed a girl Jasnah was inlove with. Her fondness for  the book of endless pages hints she might have had a female lover or at least a very close female friend, who was possibly killed by such thugs.

 

 

There is some evidence for that, in the scene following Jasnah's 'philosophy lesson'. I'll go see if I can find the quote somewhere.....

 

 Here:

 

 

“I did not do this just to prove a point, child. I have been feeling for some time that I took advantage of His Majesty’s hospitality. He doesn’t realize how much trouble he could face for allying himself with me. Besides, men like those…” There was something in her voice, an edge Shallan had never heard before.

What was done to you? Shallan wondered with horror. And who did it?

 emphasis mine

Edited May 10, 2014 by Aleksiel

[maxal]

Thanks!

 

 

 

It's certainly one possibility. Though I have some counter arguments. She was the king's daughter, who would dare touch her? Certainly not Gavilar, else she wouldn't have spoken fondly of him. Jasnah used to be close to Navani, she would have told her mother. I can't imagine someone wronging her without being executed afterwards. 

 

Jasnah recent towards men and her reaction to Karbranthina thugs hint towards this direction, however I am more inclined to believe men like that rapped and killed a girl Jasnah was inlove with. Her fondness for  the book of endless pages hints she might have had a female lover or at least a very close friend, who was possibly killed by such thugs.

 

Nice possibility. Jasnah being homosexual is indeed quite possible. I like your idea, it would definitely harm a young teenager girl. Afterwards, her coping mechanism would have been trusting herself into her studies and turning down every man.

 

Before you posted, I was about to write "What if Galivar raped her"....... I didn't recall Jasnah speaking fondly of her father, but I recalled Navani not being sorry he was dead, so.....

[GreyPilgrim]

Very, very interesting speculation, maxal. That would explain a lot, were it true.

 

Your idea is also interesting, Aleksiel. I have for a while at least part believed Jasnah is gay. If she or someone she knew were abused, that would only go to increase her negativity toward men.

[Delightful]

Oh please do!

WoK paperback pages 664/665, Chapter 36 'The Lesson'

 

 

"Besides, men like those..." There was something in her voice, an edge Shallan had never heard before. What was done to you? Shallan wondered with horror. And who did it?

There's been speculation around that Jasnah's heresy and/or her cold feelings towards Amaram in her prologue had something to do with it. I would link you to it, but honestly, the board's become so cluttered since WoR that I have no idea how to find it anymore.

 

Edit: Ninja'd by like 5 posts.....that's a first for me.

 

Edit 2: What's the connection with the Book of Endless pages though? Do we know who gave it to her?

We've seen her use her studies, as has Shallan, as a coping mechanism, so that's definitely possible, but I think it must have been pretty central to her life to begin with. Doesn't Navani describe her as being a naturally curious child?

Edited May 10, 2014 by Delightful

[Griff]

@ aleksiel fair point with shallan but I kinda inferred that the scene with her mother was the end of a much longer series of events we didnt see, and not just a sudden once off reaction, seemed premeditated by her mother, so I inferred her brokeness was because of her mother, I might be wrong.

I dont agree with what u said bout dalinar, dont think that is enough to break him,

Same with renarin

As for adolin I think you are taking snap to mean more than it does, to me it implied enough is enough have to end this type thing not snap as in broken.

Maxal you summed up my feelings on renarin better than I did myself bar I dont think he should of been a radiant full stop, it just makes no sense to me, and if hes bein a truth watcher means he just screams we are all going to die or some such nonsence during every fight I could do without it, just seems totally inept, unless we see massive growth from him, and he becomes a more central character I dont see my feelings changing.