[OB] Rlain Bondsmith theory

[The Harlem Worldhoppers]

I was wondering why there was a lack of Rlain in the second half of oathbringer given that the other squires got quite a bit of coverage and according to Peter Ahsltrom this was intentional on Brandon's part.

I believe that during his absence, Rlain has made contact with surviving listeners on the shattered plains. He will be key to uniting the humans and parsh people similarly to Dalinar uniting humans together. If the third godspren is in urithuru then there is a real possibility that Rlain becomes a bondsmith. If the third godspren is slumbering as the storm father says he is then maybe Rlain's efforts will awaken it similarly to Syl finding Kaladin.

What do you guys think? Any theories on who/where/why is the sibling?

[Fatikis]

34 minutes ago, The Harlem Worldhoppers said:

I was wondering why there was a lack of Rlain in the second half of oathbringer given that the other squires got quite a bit of coverage and according to Peter Ahsltrom this was intentional on Brandon's part.

I believe that during his absence, Rlain has made contact with surviving listeners on the shattered plains. He will be key to uniting the humans and parsh people similarly to Dalinar uniting humans together. If the third godspren is in urithuru then there is a real possibility that Rlain becomes a bondsmith. If the third godspren is slumbering as the storm father says he is then maybe Rlain's efforts will awaken it similarly to Syl finding Kaladin.

What do you guys think? Any theories on who/where/why is the sibling?

It is plausible that Rlain could become a bondsmith. Personally, I think the third sibling is of Odium and will be bonded by Moash. Rlain to me seems like a good candidate for bonding The Nightwatcher. 

[ljósmóður]

3 hours ago, The Harlem Worldhoppers said:

I was wondering why there was a lack of Rlain in the second half of oathbringer given that the other squires got quite a bit of coverage and according to Peter Ahsltrom this was intentional on Brandon's part.

I believe that during his absence, Rlain has made contact with surviving listeners on the shattered plains. He will be key to uniting the humans and parsh people similarly to Dalinar uniting humans together. If the third godspren is in urithuru then there is a real possibility that Rlain becomes a bondsmith. If the third godspren is slumbering as the storm father says he is then maybe Rlain's efforts will awaken it similarly to Syl finding Kaladin.

What do you guys think? Any theories on who/where/why is the sibling?

I, also, thought it was significant that Rlain didn't become a Windrunner Squire. I like your idea and could see the value in having a Bondsmith from amongst the Listener population. I agree with @Fatikis  though; the Nightwatcher would be the more likely Spren in this case. I really don't have much of clue about the Sibling to be honest - except that I could see it being of Odium. The two lovers, Honour and Cultivation, having two of the godspren and their 'sibling' shard having another one. I also like the idea that the three Bondsmith spren embody Roshar in someway. The land is characterised by the storms (Stormfather), it's distinctive flora/fauna (Nightwatcher) and it's stone landscape (honourable exception, Shinovar) So, maybe the Sibling spren is some sort or representation of the land. (And the two could be related - an embodiment of Roshar, which is of Odium). This is not a coherent theory, just my musings about the Sibling.

My own thinking about Rlain was that he believes himself to be the only Narak listener left, as does Venli. Their reunion could be interesting, due to it being Venli who returned the forms of power and Rlain who chose to throw in his lot with the humans. I was wondering if Rlain would become a Willshaper too - he seems to fit quite well.

[ZenBossanova]

I really can't imagine Odium being one of the Bondsmith spren. Why would he be in charge of Urithiru, when they are trying to defeat him? More likely, the Sibling is 50% Honor and 50% Cultivation. 

Rlain would be a fantastic Bondsmith. He is much better set for that, than for Windrunning. He wants to be a part of everyone else, and he wants to unite with everyone else. Presumably, he would do the same with other Listeners. He is more set on uniting, than protecting. 

But I also think Taravangian would be an awesome Bondsmith. So, make of that what you will. 

Edited May 27, 2018 by ZenBossanova

[CrazyRioter]

I agree that the Sibling is most likely 50/50 Honor and Cultivation. Sort of their mutual "child" if you like.

[Fatikis]

We have three shards that have made a huge impact on Roshar. We have three potential bondsmiths. Seems pretty obvious to me that for some amount of time there was a peace between the three gods on Roshar. The Bondsmith order to balance this peace. 

Quote

Three of sixteen ruled, but now the Broken One reigns!

-Collected: Chachnan, 1173, 84 seconds pre-death. Subject: a cutpurse with the wasting sickness, of partial Irali descent.

The Stormfather was pissed about what humans did to to The Sibling. Humans probably turned on it because it was of Odium. That doesn't mean it was evil, but I imagine it was more along the lines what Odium pretends to be. Passion. That is why there is such a strong passion influence in Vorinism. Even many of the orders of knights seem to be link to Odium. 

[Brackcha]

2 hours ago, Fatikis said:

We have three shards that have made a huge impact on Roshar. We have three potential bondsmiths. Seems pretty obvious to me that for some amount of time there was a peace between the three gods on Roshar. The Bondsmith order to balance this peace. 

The Stormfather was pissed about what humans did to to The Sibling. Humans probably turned on it because it was of Odium. That doesn't mean it was evil, but I imagine it was more along the lines what Odium pretends to be. Passion. That is why there is such a strong passion influence in Vorinism. Even many of the orders of knights seem to be link to Odium. 

Also note that at one point shall an talks about some texts saying that there are ten unmade and others saying nine, if on was a potential bond smith Spren wouldn't it make sense if it were confused with the unmade?

[goody153]

Idk Rlain being bondsmith may overlap by purpose with Venli who is currently as we a KR who spreading the love in Odium's forces. Other than that Rlain doesn't have similar qualities to the only few Bondsmith we know by detail(Dalinar and Gavilar)

If Rlain becomes KR i think he'll become something else. Personally i think this is will be how we will first see if a Parshendi bonded a KR spren instead of a normalspren/honorspren i think their forms will be spectacular.  And the only reason Venli didn't change physical appearance was because her spren captured the voidspren

And i will be looking forward for it assuming Rlain actually becomes KR

[Leyrann]

17 minutes ago, goody153 said:

Personally i think this is will be how we will first see if a Parshendi bonded a KR spren

Uh, Venli already bonded Timbre... She's said the First Ideal and inhaled Stormlight.

[goody153]

1 hour ago, Leyrann said:

Uh, Venli already bonded Timbre... She's said the First Ideal and inhaled Stormlight.

Yes i did mention that but in a Parshendi way i mean. We know that Parshendi take form of who they bond(Stormform from bonding Voidspren) but Venli's case might be special since basically her Honorspren took captive of the Voidspren(Venli mentioned this).

So what happens during full vulnerability of highstorm with Rlain opening up for a new spren. Which that spren is the one is a honorspren ? What form will he have ? What he have form abilities or radiant abilities ?  Assuming it's he's mutual with the spren can he evetually summon that spren with the proper oaths as shardblade ? Will he have both parshendi form advantage and radiant form advantage as well as shardblade advantage ? Most importantly what will he look like ?

Or will he stay the same as the warform and just have radiant abilities ? 

[Stark]

Is Rlain's gemheart big enough to contain a Bondsmith class spren?

[Leyrann]

31 minutes ago, goody153 said:

Yes i did mention that but in a Parshendi way i mean. We know that Parshendi take form of who they bond(Stormform from bonding Voidspren) but Venli's case might be special since basically her Honorspren took captive of the Voidspren(Venli mentioned this).

So what happens during full vulnerability of highstorm with Rlain opening up for a new spren. Which that spren is the one is a honorspren ? What form will he have ? What he have form abilities or radiant abilities ?  Assuming it's he's mutual with the spren can he evetually summon that spren with the proper oaths as shardblade ? Will he have both parshendi form advantage and radiant form advantage as well as shardblade advantage ? Most importantly what will he look like ?

Or will he stay the same as the warform and just have radiant abilities ? 

She doesn't have a honorspren? Timbre is a cometspren (or at least that's what we seem to have named it here).

Also, a Nahel bond could be separate from the singer-spren symbiosis; it's been created to work without gemheart, after all, so maybe they'll eventually have a spren in their gemheart that determines their form, and then a higher spren they have a nahel bond with.

[The Harlem Worldhoppers]

1 hour ago, Leyrann said:

She doesn't have a honorspren? Timbre is a cometspren (or at least that's what we seem to have named it here).

Also, a Nahel bond could be separate from the singer-spren symbiosis; it's been created to work without gemheart, after all, so maybe they'll eventually have a spren in their gemheart that determines their form, and then a higher spren they have a nahel bond with.

I thought Timbre was a lightspren. Captain Ico, the lightspren captain that gives Kaladin and co their first boat ride mentions his daughter who ran away. I'm pretty sure his lightspren daughter is Timbre.

[Leyrann]

1 hour ago, The Harlem Worldhoppers said:

I thought Timbre was a lightspren. Captain Ico, the lightspren captain that gives Kaladin and co their first boat ride mentions his daughter who ran away. I'm pretty sure his lightspren daughter is Timbre.

Is Ico a lightspren?

If so then Timbre is as well. I agree that it wouldn't make sense to mention his daughter running away if that daughter isn't Timbre. I just thought we had no canon name.

(https://coppermind.net/wiki/Lightspren)

[goody153]

9 hours ago, Leyrann said:

She doesn't have a honorspren? Timbre is a cometspren (or at least that's what we seem to have named it here).

Also, a Nahel bond could be separate from the singer-spren symbiosis; it's been created to work without gemheart, after all, so maybe they'll eventually have a spren in their gemheart that determines their form, and then a higher spren they have a nahel bond with.

Honorspren doesn't necessary mean that it's windrunners honorspren (i just meant honorspren like splinters of honor or radiant spren) but yeah that's what i'm kinda wondering about if the radiant spren gets captured(mutual captivity or whatever) or will Rlain actually still look like warform after bonding. Or maybe in a storm when Rlain is vulnerable and he already attracted some sort of radiant spren then it will be captured to his gemheart and he'll have a new cool form + nahel bond benefits. 

[Qanon]

Honestly, I think Venli will be the next Bondsmith. 

 

So far as I know, there isn't really a correlation between physical size and power. For example, the Stormfather is large because storms are large rather than the Stormfather is large because storms are powerful.

Timbre sounds like an extremely important concept to a people who literally hear rhythms.  

And look at what Venli was doing before she attracted Timbre - she's uniting the Listeners.

 

So my hypothesis is that Venli started uniting the Listeners which attracted Timbre, a spren powerful enough to bind a voidspren, something Venli didn't even think was possible and was incredulous to discover, and that Timbre is a powerful Bondsmith spren. 

Remember that Danliar, a Bondsmith, was able to bind an Unmade.

I presume that there will be three Bondsmith's: one for humans, one for Parshendi, and one that will unify both humans and Parshendi.

[Leyrann]

2 hours ago, Qanon said:

Honestly, I think Venli will be the next Bondsmith. 

 

So far as I know, there isn't really a correlation between physical size and power. For example, the Stormfather is large because storms are large rather than the Stormfather is large because storms are powerful.

Timbre sounds like an extremely important concept to a people who literally hear rhythms.  

And look at what Venli was doing before she attracted Timbre - she's uniting the Listeners.

 

So my hypothesis is that Venli started uniting the Listeners which attracted Timbre, a spren powerful enough to bind a voidspren, something Venli didn't even think was possible and was incredulous to discover, and that Timbre is a powerful Bondsmith spren. 

Remember that Danliar, a Bondsmith, was able to bind an Unmade.

I presume that there will be three Bondsmith's: one for humans, one for Parshendi, and one that will unify both humans and Parshendi.

Timbre is almost certainly a Lightspren, the daughter of Captain Ico, from the ship. Remember how she mentions to Venli that her grandfather is a deadeyes, while Ico's father is a deadeyes and he's mentioned his daughter "ran off chasing stupid dreams".

[Fatikis]

2 hours ago, Qanon said:

Honestly, I think Venli will be the next Bondsmith. 

As others have stated she pretty clearly bonded a lightspren. I doubt this little spren is The Sibling.

[Calderis]

The scene in which Dalinar has all of the Knights and two Heralds with him and thinks that there should be one more implies that all 10 orders are represented by the Knights present. 

Kaladin - Windrunner 

Shallan - Lightweaver

Dalinar - Bondsmith

Jasnah - Elsecaller

Renarin - Truthwatcher 

Lift - Edgedancer

Szeth - Skybreaker 

Taln - Stoneward 

Ash - Dustbringer (though this one is debated) 

And the one he discounted as he was looking for Humans

Venli - Willshaper

This is supported by Eshonai's too perfect fit of the Willshaper archetype presented in the in world Words of Radiance and this WoB. 

Quote

Vulcronos [PENDING REVIEW]

Is Book Four still planned to be Eshonai's viewpoint?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yes.

Vulcronos [PENDING REVIEW]

And, would she have been a Willshaper?

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

She would be the same Order as her sister.

source

It doesn't say Willshaper... But still.

Edit: Remembered that we also have this WoB, which all but guarantees she's a Willshaper 

Quote

Pagerunner [PENDING REVIEW]

Lightspren, the ones who like to travel, are they the Willshaper spren? I thought it was pretty obvious. 

Brandon Sanderson [PENDING REVIEW]

Yeah.

source

End edit. 

As to Rlain, it's the current Bondsmith theory I most support. He's definitely (in my opinion) searching for the missing listeners. 

Edited June 8, 2018 by Calderis

[goody153]

I'm leaning more on she's not gonna be a bondsmiths. There spren tends to be extremely powerful(in Dalinar's case the stormfather) and that little blot of light doesn't seem like a bondsmith spren to me(which Odium would probably notice if there was a powerful spren around his domain).

Maybe she could be one of the first theorized dual-spren Radiants. With her current initial spren then a god-spren like nightwatcher

[Journey Before Pancakes]

19 hours ago, Calderis said:

As to Rlain, it's the current Bondsmith theory I most support. He's definitely (in my opinion) searching for the missing listeners. 

Remembering those that have been forgotten?

As cool as it would be to see Rlain become a Bondsmith, this kinda sounds more like an Edgedancer thing to do to me.  A lot of the focus we got on Rlain involved being forgotten and being ignored.  That's literally what happens to him in the book.  It seems strangely coincidental to me.

[Soby]

Yes Venli is a willshaper. They were the only order unaccounted for until she bonded Timbre. 

Also, it’s apparent that squires can bond a different spren than the one associated with the order they are squiring in, but it seems clear that rlain is currently a squire for the wind runners is it not?

In the book scene in OB, a wounded Thaylen soldier asks Lopen how to become a radiant. A quote makes me think Rlain has spoken the first ideal and is squiring with the wind runners:  

“Good, good! We don’t have a Thaylen yet, and lately it looks like we’re trying to collect one of everything. We even have a parshman!”

He’s clearly talking about squires not just members of bridge 4...what are your thoughts? 

[Jace21]

25 minutes ago, Soby said:

Yes Venli is a willshaper. They were the only order unaccounted for until she bonded Timbre. 

Also, it’s apparent that squires can bond a different spren than the one associated with the order they are squiring in, but it seems clear that rlain is currently a squire for the wind runners is it not?

In the book scene in OB, a wounded Thaylen soldier asks Lopen how to become a radiant. A quote makes me think Rlain has spoken the first ideal and is squiring with the wind runners:  

“Good, good! We don’t have a Thaylen yet, and lately it looks like we’re trying to collect one of everything. We even have a parshman!”

He’s clearly talking about squires not just members of bridge 4...what are your thoughts? 

I see Rlain more as a Windrunner too, I think he has probably sworn the first ideal already, but he might not have.

I know a lot of people like the Rlain = Bondsmith idea, but it seems unlikely to me. He hasn't shown any Bondsmith-like attributes and the main thing in his favor seems to be that he is in a position to help lead the Listeners that are good, but it doesnt seem like enough, Venli is in that role and is not a Bondsmith.

[Kramerfarve]

On 6/9/2018 at 11:25 AM, goody153 said:

Maybe she could be one of the first theorized dual-spren Radiants. With her current initial spren then a god-spren like nightwatcher

The bond she has with her initial spren that gave her envoy-form is different in nature to a nahel bond. It does not grant access to any form of the surges. A singer-spren Bond is more like a living fabrial than anything else.

[Lidolas]

If Rlain becomes a bondsmith, I imagine it would be from bonding the Nightwatcher and not the Sibling.  His spanning between Parsh and Humans  seems to fit with the second ideal, "I will unite instead of divide.  I will bring men together."  (Maybe change men to something else).  I could see that happening.  

Also, the boon/curse aspect of the Nightwatcher seems like it could play an interesting part of bonding a Listener. 

(And I still hold to the theory that Navani is going to bond the Sibling, so I refuse to think of anyone else doing it ).