Knights Radiants Political/Social status ( WOR Spoiler)

[Natans]

I was thinking with myself now that Urithiru was found and a least 6 radiants appeared - (Kal, Jasnah, Dalinar, Renarim, Shallan and Lift). What gonna be the political/social position of the New Radiants.

I ask this basically being Kal only ex-darkeye, he are in a odd situation, he doesn't have money, or political/social power, rank or anything but he are a Radiant.

So what be his status in Alenthi society? He are more that the highprinces or the king? They can give him orders? Who the common folk will face this?

Let say when he face Roshone in his home town, who his position will help him achieve his goal(justice).

And the Ardentia will accept him and the others or a new religion war will occur ?

Edited March 9, 2014 by Natans

[RIT]

It would probably be a different setting in each society. In Alethi society I would peg them as being the same level as a Shardbearwr. So just like Moash they would bare minimum be able to join a minor house or start their own. If they have a position above that already it stays intact.

[Paradox]

From what I understand Alethi society is all about Strength in battle = political power. In a literal sense that basically means Kaladin is the most important person in the country behind maybe Dalinar. Realistically, noone in the country other than the other Radiants can hope to challange him physically and thus if he confronts Roshone - assuming Roshone isn't insane - Roshone will rust himself. Roshone will likely fear invoking Kaladin's wrath, I would too even though I know Kaladin wont kill people who say mean things to him and are general assholes (3rd ideal and all that).

[Seloun]

I don't think social status is going to matter for Kaladin. Even neglecting the fact he's a Radiant (a huge thing to ignore...) he's a Shardbearer, making him minimally a lighteyes of the 4th dahn, which is the same rank as Shallan's father. I'm pretty sure he outranks Roshone based simply on that alone. I would be surprised if Roshone's own guards would follow Roshone's direction over Kaladin, simply because he has a Shardblade.

 

That does assume that Kaladin reveals the fact that he has a Shardblade, but at the very least he probably can't hide his eyes.

 

Ultimately though I find it difficult to imagine it will matter in any case. Surgebinders are cool. As Nohadon says,

 

 

“Their power… well, Alakavish proves the allure that Surgebinders have for the common people. If only there were a way to encourage them….”

 

Despite the Recreance and the church, it's going to be tough for your average joe to not be impressed by a Surgebinder when seeing them in action. They're basically superheroes.

[cris34b]

I'd also like to note the way that Shallan commanded Dalinar not to reveal her secret to Navani. So yeah, I feel like until they become more common, Knights Radiant are going to be on the level of Highprinces at least. Just much more revered. Once a bunch of them show up, they'll be strong warriors, probably 4th dahn lighteyes, or maybe even lower, like 5th dahn. All I know is if it is revealed that they are chosen by their spren, people will know they are worthy of ruling. So I'm feeling that even when they become common, they will be the most prominent political force, like Awakeners in Warbreaker, and how the nobles in Mistborn are where all of the Mistings and such are.

[Fifth]

I'd also like to note the way that Shallan commanded Dalinar not to reveal her secret to Navani. So yeah, I feel like until they become more common, Knights Radiant are going to be on the level of Highprinces at least. Just much more revered. Once a bunch of them show up, they'll be strong warriors, probably 4th dahn lighteyes, or maybe even lower, like 5th dahn. All I know is if it is revealed that they are chosen by their spren, people will know they are worthy of ruling. So I'm feeling that even when they become common, they will be the most prominent political force, like Awakeners in Warbreaker, and how the nobles in Mistborn are where all of the Mistings and such are.

 

I'm Inclined to agree though I think that they will be regarded as at least Highprince level or even above, Until they become more common till then I see them outranking all but Kings then once numbers swell to say several dozen they will start to be removed outside of the chain somewhat, though It seems that there will still be leaders for each order as per the top floor of Urithiru having 11 short podiums which I presume is for the ten orders "Leaders" to have meetings and the 11th being for someone to "address" the gathering. Once this happens these "Leaders" of each order will I expect command at LEAST king level social status.

[Spark]

I am even more curious to see the Radiants completely upset the religious structure. While I can picture the Alethi Highprinces - hunger for power aside - to eventually somewhat accept the Radiants as a new authority simply in terms of power, I can not yet picture how they'll fit into the the current beliefs of Vorinism.

 

Maybe I missed it, but we did not get any religious reaction to Dalinar naming Amaram Radiant, did we?

[Elena]

Maybe I missed it, but we did not get any religious reaction to Dalinar naming Amaram Radiant, did we?

IMO the ones in the camp thought that it was more a political scheme than anything else, especially as Amaram showed no real surgebinding ability, and the rest of the ardents were too busy with the riots to care what happened on the Plans. now, I'm *really* curious to see what will happen if ever Kaladin makes it to the capital...

[Walker]

I am even more curious to see the Radiants completely upset the religious structure.

 

I suspect we will see this in the next book, once Kaladin hits Kholinar. Remember that the riots are related to the corrupt ardents.

[Numb]

I am even more curious to see the Radiants completely upset the religious structure. While I can picture the Alethi Highprinces - hunger for power aside - to eventually somewhat accept the Radiants as a new authority simply in terms of power, I can not yet picture how they'll fit into the the current beliefs of Vorinism.

 

Maybe I missed it, but we did not get any religious reaction to Dalinar naming Amaram Radiant, did we?

 

I think we might not have gotten much from the Amaram Radiant because he didn't display anything. It was just a meaningless title so why should there be an outcry. 

 

Anyway I foresee people realizing Vorinism is actually a load of rubbish that has done nothing more than limit their society. Just imagine all the people realizing that they can be more than they are right now and it's not predetermined by some God. That's what Kaladin and the Radiants symbolize.

[Spark]

I think we might not have gotten much from the Amaram Radiant because he didn't display anything. It was just a meaningless title so why should there be an outcry. 

 

Anyway I foresee people realizing Vorinism is actually a load of rubbish that has done nothing more than limit their society. Just imagine all the people realizing that they can be more than they are right now and it's not predetermined by some God. That's what Kaladin and the Radiants symbolize.

 

Well, it is predetermined by some "God" though, if you want to look at it this way. Yes, the Radiants can be a symbol for freedom of choice and will, but they can also be seen as proof of Vorinism, at least in part. Just think of the whole concept of choosing your Calling: In a way, Kaladin (spearfight) and Shallan (drawing) can be seen as the epitome of that concept.

 

Maybe the concept of choosing your Calling, following it through and eventually being chosen by the Heralds is exactly that: The path to becoming a Radiant - exactly the entity, which is branded as a traitor within the same belief system.

 

But that's the interesting thing: The Radiants are both, proof for those who believe and proof for those who question. The riots, as Walker pointed out, already foreshadow what's coming next. But personally I think that the Radiants' role, especially Dalinar's, will not only be to unite Highprinces and Kingdoms, but also to unite people and church.

[Aminar]

I would put it more as any Radiant not already in a political position will be considered an Emmisary from a foreign nation, as the Radiant's are not and should not be part of any one nation, or under the command of any but their own.(Given the responsibility involved in becoming a Radiant.)

[Gloom]

Okay, I personally believe that the Radiants will be equivalent in rank to someone in the third dahn as far as politics goes, but at the same time, I don't think that most of them will care. I doubt a Dustbringer who sees a High Prince as corrupted will even think twice before administering justice to that High Prince, I doubt even a king would give a Dustbringer pause. They will be forced to police their own as they did before. It's doubtful that they will feel themselves beholden to the laws of man for much longer. Instead they will be compelled to act as their ideals dictate.

 

As for Vorinism, it could go either way. It will partially depend on how the Knights Radiant react to Vorinism, and the rest will depend on the manipulations of Taravangian and Restares.

[cris34b]

So it appears they will be almost entirely out of the system of command, like Kaladin as Captain, but with a bit more awe involved, making them more mysterious, and, as a result, more politically powerful. 

[Mr Horrible]

I feel like Kaladin's very light eyes are indicative of where they'll end up on the social scale. As other people have said, in Alethi culture might tends to mean authority and as Kaladin wasn't really pushed by Szeth who defeated even Dalinar, I can't see anyone other than the King and Danilar having authority over him (and that's likely granted by him as there's no one who could actually force him to do something if push comes to shove, aside from perhaps Jasnah).

 

I think once Radiants become more common we'll see a hierachy in their order and these initial radiants are likely going to act as leaders. So KR's might only start at the ~4th dahn, or maybe even 3rd as the ones shown all seem to be more powerful than shardbearers as baseline.

 

I also think this will come to a head in the next book as it's likely Kaladin will be in Kholinar for some length of time and *will not* agree with what the Queen is doing.