Surgebinding and the Knights Radiant: New Information (Spoilers WoR)

[Tarion]

So, post Words of Radiance, we have a much better grasp of Surgebinding.  It turns out that a lot of what know up until now can be improved upon.

Firstly, better names for the surges.  Some of them felt a little bit off, and in some cases we’ve been using the names of one of the effects of the surge for the surge itself (See: Growth, for example.  It’s actually the surge of Progression).  They now feel far more like a list of universal forces. 

 

What we know now is that the ten surges are as follows:

Adhesion: The Surge of Pressure and Vacuum

Gravitation: The Surge of Gravity

Division: The Surge of Destruction and Decay

Abrasion: The Surge of Friction

Progression: The Surge of Growth and Healing (Regrowth)

Illumination: The Surge of Light, Sound, and Various Waveforms

Transformation: The Surge of Soulcasting

Transportation: The Surge of Motion and Realmatic Transition

Cohesion: The Surge of Strong Axial Interconnection

Tension: The Surge of Soft Axial Interconnection

 

Stormlight is looking to be the most complete healing so far in the Cosmere.  Capable of fixing long-term problems, such as lost limbs and poor eyesight.  Also can heal Shardblade damage. 

 

Honorblades – As we suspected before the release, thanks to the previews, Honorblades grant a more inefficient form of the Surges associated with their Herald.  The bearer drains Stormlight at a far faster rate, which Syl describes as dangerous.

 

While we’re (at this point) unsure of the dangers, I think that looking at the Soulcasters (The people doing it, not the fabrials) in the Alethi warcamp is interesting.  “Prolonged use of the Soulcaster had transformed the eyes so that they sparkled like gemstones themselves.  The woman’s skin had hardened to something like stone, smooth, with fine cracks.  It was as if the person were a living statue” (Pg 410).

 

They’re the only characters (other than the proto-Radiants and Szeth) who are regularly using Stormlight.  I’d hazard a guess that they’re using far more of it than even Szeth, considering that he only uses his for havoc, while they’re busy feeding entire armies and creating buildings. 

 

 

 

Orders of the Knights Radiant

Windrunners                                       Adhesion             Gravitation

Skybreakers                                       Gravitation           Division

Releasers (“Dustbringers”)                Division                Abrasion

Edgedancers                                     Abrasion              Progression

5^th Order                                           Progression          Illumination

Lightweavers                                     Illumination           Transformation

Elsecallers                                         Transformation    Transportation

8^th Order                                           Transportation     Cohesion

Stonewards                                       Cohesion              Tension               

10^th Order                                         Tension                Adhesion

 

We also know the remaining three orders are the Willshapers, the Bondsmiths and the Truthwatchers (Almost entirely from the excerpts from Words of Radiance in the epigraphs). 

 

Willshapers – Most likely to be 8^th Order, as they have access to Shadesmar and they’re listed as having an affinity for the spren along with the Lightweavers and Elsecallers (epigraph to Chapter 53).  That most likely comes from the Surge of Transportation, since both Transportation and Transportation are heavily tied to Shadesmar (With Elsecallers, the Order with both, having the strongest tie).

 

Bondsmiths and Truthwatchers aren’t elaborated upon much in the book.  However, I think it’s a reasonable to put the Truthwatchers as the 5^th order (with access to Progression and Illumination) and the Bondsmiths as the 10^th order (with access to Tension and Adhesion).

 

I’ll be honest though, I’m doing that almost entirely by the natures of the Radiants of those Orders, and the nature of their Spren (The Stormfather is very close to Syl, without being quite the same, after all).  Ym in particular sounds like a Truthwatcher though. 

I’m left with very little clue what’s gone on with Renarin though.  He’s shown some abilities that make me wonder whether he’s actually bonded to a Voidbringer.  Alternatively, he’s doing the same thing as Pattern, the Stormwardens and Taravangian (at his smartest) – Using intellect, pattern-spotting and mathematics to make accurate predictions logically, rather than using magic to actually see it.  I’m not sure how that applies to Progression and Illumination (although, as I said, it is the close to what Pattern, a Cryptic does). 

 

Of course, if this is what is going on, then it’d explain why the Truthwatchers are said to have not spoken about what they do.  If I were engaged in something that was remarkably similar to Voidbinding, I’d definitely keep it quiet, no matter how benign it might be in reality.

 

Finally, we’re told that one of the ten didn’t engage in the Recreance, but instead “said they would not abandon their arms and flee, but instead entertained great subterfuge at the expense of the other nine”.

I suspect that whichever order did this, went on to found the Stone Shamans.  It’d explain their knowledge, their trove of Honorblades and their ability to reclaim Szeth’s Honorblade if he died - Being the only people with Surgebinding and living Shards would give you one hell of an advantage in the aftermath of the Recreance. 

[carlucill]

If you look at the traits for #8 (Resolute, Builder) I feel it has to be bondsmith because that's by far more accurate than (learned, giving) or (Pious, Guiding) for Dalinar. From there I would tentatively put willshapers at 5 (learned, giving) and truthwatchers at 10 (Pious, Guiding)

[Aminar]

The first Bondsmith Oath us Unite not divide.  That's guiding.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Aminar

[Tortellini]

Finally, we’re told that one of the ten didn’t engage in the Recreance, but instead “said they would not abandon their arms and flee, but instead entertained great subterfuge at the expense of the other nine”.

I suspect that whichever order did this, went on to found the Stone Shamans.  It’d explain their knowledge, their trove of Honorblades and their ability to reclaim Szeth’s Honorblade if he died - Being the only people with Surgebinding and living Shards would give you one hell of an advantage in the aftermath of the Recreance. 

 

I strongly suspect that the remaining order is the Stonewards, and they turned into the Stone Shamans. First, they actually "ward" stones - they are holy to them, to the point of warding them even from being stepped on. This could be based on an ancient rule to be careful when stepping on stone, because a Thunderclast might appear beneath you. The strongest link however is that Taln is the Herald attached to the Stonewards, and he is the only Herald not to break his oath. We don't know exactly what caused the Recreance, but I always felt that there must be a causal link between the Recreance and the Heralds walking away from the Oathpact - the Heralds thus indirectly caused the Recreance. Then Taln's order may not have had the same reason to walk away when the other 9 did during the Recreance, since he was still doing his job getting tortured.

[Tarion]

Dalinar's oath could be Builder or Guiding.  I really don't see a way to pick one of the two.  

 

However, my sticking point is that we've got 3 Orders who have access to Shadesmar and the Spren as a society.  The Lightweavers, Elsecallers and Willshapers.  Knowing that Elsecallers have a stronger connection makes it hard for me to see it as anything but the three orders who have some combination of Transportation and Transformation, with the Elsecaller's stronger connection coming from having both.  

 

Totellini - I like it.  I think it's too early to call for sure, but I definitely like your reasoning.  

[Aminar]

I strongly suspect that the remaining order is the Stonewards, and they turned into the Stone Shamans. First, they actually "ward" stones - they are holy to them, to the point of warding them even from being stepped on. This could be based on an ancient rule to be careful when stepping on stone, because a Thunderclast might appear beneath you. The strongest link however is that Taln is the Herald attached to the Stonewards, and he is the only Herald not to break his oath. We don't know exactly what caused the Recreance, but I always felt that there must be a causal link between the Recreance and the Heralds walking away from the Oathpact - the Heralds thus indirectly caused the Recreance. Then Taln's order may not have had the same reason to walk away when the other 9 did during the Recreance, since he was still doing his job getting tortured.

I swear we see the Stonewards give up Plate and Blade in one of Dalinar's visions.  I just looked it up.  We see them and some windrunners.  72% of the way through Way of Kings.

[Raevun]

My guess was Skybreakers, for a much simpler reason; Nin (Herald of Justice, head of the Skybreakers), welcomed Szeth to the order at the end of the book. 

[Aminar]

Dalinar's oath could be Builder or Guiding.  I really don't see a way to pick one of the two.  

 

However, my sticking point is that we've got 3 Orders who have access to Shadesmar and the Spren as a society.  The Lightweavers, Elsecallers and Willshapers.  Knowing that Elsecallers have a stronger connection makes it hard for me to see it as anything but the three orders who have some combination of Transportation and Transformation, with the Elsecaller's stronger connection coming from having both.  

 

Totellini - I like it.  I think it's too early to call for sure, but I definitely like your reasoning.  

Doesn't Willshaper just scream Resolute?  As in strong of will?

[ReadingSpren]

I think one of the keys to this will be chapter 89, "The Four". This chapter heading has Jezrien, Shalash, Ishar and Palah and the chapter has us finding our Bondsmith and Truthwatcher. Considering Palah's focus on learning, I'm going to guess Truthwater is order #5, Bondsmith is #10, leaving Willshaper as #8

[Wyndrunner]

I know this jumping back a bit but does anyone know what the Surges for Cohesion and Tension actually mean?

 

I have absolutely no idea what Axial interconnection is.

[Aminar]

Tension is surface tension. The other one is basically molecular bonds... I'm curoious to see how those work.

[RShara]

A little off topic but related--has anyone noticed the gender relations of the spren to their bondmates?  Each human seems to bond a spren of the opposite gender (except for Dalinar who might have bonded the shard of Honor).  I wonder if this is a coincidence or has some deeper implication.  We know that people of either gender can join most orders, so are there male and female windspren?  Hmmm...

[Moogle]

Tension is surface tension. The other one is basically molecular bonds... I'm curoious to see how those work.

 

Probably forcefields. "Cohesion" is suggestive of keeping things together when they should not, or else making things easy to separate. Think being able to move your hand through stone as if it were air, breaking it apart, or else causing the air to stay interconnected like stone.

 

Tension is likely similar, but instead of breaking things apart or making them bind to other things more tightly, you can deform objects.

[+Aletus]

And maybe on a less oathed version, grabbing a Chasmfiend's claw and not being smushed into smuckers grape jelly?

 

Because you can try and tell me that was simply plate, or simply plate and thrill. I won't buy it.

I might buy a nightwatcher boon though, they sound tantalizing.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Blackwood

[Kurkistan]

Ah yes, Stormlight healing. Looks like I was quite thoroughly wrong here. I do stand by my past self in that seeing it like Allomantic pewter was most reasonable before WoR, but that's clearly absurd now.

 

Beyond that, even, Stormlight does indeed seem to be one of the most powerful healing magics in the Cosmere. Probably on par with Divine Breath and no other. I was prepared to brush away Lopen's arm healing back as him being really stubborn about seeing himself as having an extra arm, but then Renarin fixed his eyes (a feat that permanent Resealing, non-specialized AonDor, and presumably Feruchemical gold would all fail at).

 

So I see two options: Either we fall back on Forms and WoK's "Stormlight perfects" line ought to be taken literally as Stormlight bringing about the ideal image of a person (which leaves Kaladin's scar's as somewhat odd) or, just maybe, The Lopen was just crazy enough to think he still deserved a second arm and Renarin used specialized Regrowth to fix his eyes.

 

----
 

I think one of the keys to this will be chapter 89, "The Four". This chapter heading has Jezrien, Shalash, Ishar and Palah and the chapter has us finding our Bondsmith and Truthwatcher. Considering Palah's focus on learning, I'm going to guess Truthwater is order #5, Bondsmith is #10, leaving Willshaper as #8

My thoughts exactly. Four Order and four Herald-faces in a chapter titled "The Four"? With two of those Heralds representing modern KR's in that chapter? It's definitely between 5 and 10 for Dalinar and Renarin to fight over, and "Bondsmith" does seem far more aligned with 10's Surges and Heraldic attributes than "Truthwatcher".
 

A little off topic but related--has anyone noticed the gender relations of the spren to their bondmates?  Each human seems to bond a spren of the opposite gender (except for Dalinar who might have bonded the shard of Honor).  I wonder if this is a coincidence or has some deeper implication.  We know that people of either gender can join most orders, so are there male and female windspren?  Hmmm...

 

It may be a highly atypical case, but Dalinar certainly bonded a male spren.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Kurkistan

[Moogle]

So I see two options: Either we fall back on Forms and WoK's "Stormlight perfects" line ought to be taken literally as Stormlight bringing about the ideal image of a person (which leaves Kaladin's scar's as somewhat odd) or, just maybe, The Lopen was just crazy enough to think he still deserved a second arm and Renarin used specialized Regrowth to fix his eyes.

 

I too have trouble with this better-than-Feruchemical gold thing. The idea that Renarin used Regrowth to fix it is plausible, however, given that it is likely one of his Surges (I am strongly convinced Truthwatchers are #5).

Edited March 5, 2014 by Moogle

[Aminar]

Perhaps Lopen has started gaining regrowth as well? Do we know how his arm was lost. Could it be from a shardblade and with the return lf his soul the amputation was undone...

[Moogle]

Perhaps Lopen has started gaining regrowth as well? Do we know how his arm was lost. Could it be from a shardblade and with the return lf his soul the amputation was undone...

 

He says his arm was chewed off by a monster, so unfortunately he has had no experience with Shardblades that we know of.

[Kurkistan]

He says his arm was chewed off by a monster, so unfortunately he has had no experience with Shardblades that we know of.

 

I doubt he got Shardbladed (new term. It's gonnna be a thing), but I also seriously doubt that his arm was chewed off by a monster. It's Lopen of all people who tells us this fact. Probably something a bit more mundane.

[Swimmingly]

I wonder how many times Lopen is gonna use the "Look at me, I'm glowing and have two arms" pick up line?

[Edgedancer]

I wonder how many times Lopen is gonna use the "Look at me, I'm glowing and have two arms" pick up line?

If I were him I used "I am the only two armed one armed Herdrazian you are ever going to meet."

[HydrogenAlpha]

My life would be complete if Lopen met Wayne from Alloy. That would be the best possible crossover ever.

[Luke.spence]

I just realized that Herdazians are the Rosharan equivalent of Mexicans, at the end. 

[terox]

I personally think Lopen is awesome.

[Walker]

One of the more interesting features was that Bridge 4 can now use Stormlight, even though they have not said the oaths.

 

This is possibly a power of Kaladin's.  His order is Protecting/Leading, but his oaths are are protection-only so far.  I think that his later oaths may be about leading, and allow him to transfer powers to his troops.