Breathing in stormlight

[Peet]

Can all surgebinders breathe in stormlight?

I think the most advanced surgebinders we've seen so far are Szeth, Kaladin, and Lift.

We know Szeth is well practiced at breathing in stormlight, and Kaladin did it unintentionally before learning how to intentionally.

Lift is special in her ability to metabolize food/nutrients into stormlight, so she doesn't need to breathe it in, but that doesn't mean that she can't learn.

What about Jasnah, Shallan, and Ym? When soulcasting, I don't remember Jasnah or Shallan having breathed in, but they were essentially in physical contact with infused gems. However, in WoR chapter 6, it is mentioned that Shallan breathes in before turning the deck green, then she is puzzled by her dun spheres. So either she breathed in their stormlight, or it was used by being in contact with her.

Ym seems to have had grabbed a sphere knowing he would need its stormlight to heal the urchin's foot under the guise of medicine (reminds me of Nynaeve channeling in WoT).

I'm led to conclude that there appear to be two "normal" ways surgebinders can use stormlight (plus Lift's special way): through physical contact with an infused gem; and Breathing in the stormlight.

So it's possible that the surgebinders we haven't explicitly seen breathe in stormlight just haven't learned how yet. Or some surgebinders just don't have that ability, which might make sense with Jasnah's statement that not all Knights Radiant were warriors (and wouldn't need the physical enhancements that breathing in stormlight grants).

I've been lurking for a while since doing the shardhunt, and wanted to write the thoughts I had about this particular topic. What do you think?

[Moogle]

I think that all Surgebinders have a way of infusing themselves with Stormlight. They have to, to use the magic. I always thought Windrunners were unique in inhaling Stormlight (their body focus is inhalation), but given that I now believe Stormlight to be the gaseous form of a Shard, I now believe that all Surgebinders can inhale it.

 

Darkness was scared of Lift getting close to gems. It seems like every Surgebinder had a way to get Stormlight from gemstones at range, at least. Also, the Radiant in Dalinar's Purelake vision appeared to inhale Stormlight from a bag of spheres.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Moogle

[Peet]

Moogle, thanks for your thoughts. It's funny, I actually deleted a sentence before I posted that said something similar to what you do about surgebinders all having a way to use stormlight. I thought it went without saying.

So you think all surgebinders can inhale stormlight. Do you think that is the only normal way they can use stormlight to perform whatever surgebinding ability they have? Does a surgebinder who can soulcast or perform regrowth need to breathe in the stormlight, or is being in contact with an infused gem enough?

I had the thought that Darkness didn't seem concerned with securing any sources of stormlight when he went for Ym, but decided it wasn't a valid point, since there's a big difference between palace and shoemaker's shop, and I don't think we had the whole chapter. And with Lift he could only start keeping stormlight from her after he and his minions had her captured.

It seems like Darkness has a way to locate surgebinders, but doesn't seem to know what their specific KR order would be without witnessing it. Perhaps he just has to be cautious about stormlight sources in general before he knows exactly what that surgebinder's abilities are.

I'd find some quotes but it's too onerous on a phone.

[vikorr]

Hi Moogle, why do you believe stormlight is the gaseous form of a shard, and do you mean Honor?

 

While that would be interesting - wouldn't timing be an issue, with surgebinders having existed for quite some time, while Honor appears to be splintered somewhere near the end of the Knights Radiant.

[Moogle]

It seems like Darkness has a way to locate surgebinders, but doesn't seem to know what their specific KR order would be without witnessing it. Perhaps he just has to be cautious about stormlight sources in general before he knows exactly what that surgebinder's abilities are.

 

I think you're right that Darkness has a way to locate anyone who is Surgebinding. He seems to have an equivalent of Allomantic bronze from Mistborn. The instant Lift gets Stormlight from food, he snaps his head to look at her. It's very curious.

 

I'm not sure why he didn't bother with Ym. Maybe because he figured that Ym had next to no gems, or that Ym was not a very strong man and could be killed easily, as opposed to a slippery child thief.

[Shardlight]

I think you're right that Darkness has a way to locate anyone who is Surgebinding. He seems to have an equivalent of Allomantic bronze from Mistborn. The instant Lift gets Stormlight from food, he snaps his head to look at her. It's very curious.

 

I'm not sure why he didn't bother with Ym. Maybe because he figured that Ym had next to no gems, or that Ym was not a very strong man and could be killed easily, as opposed to a slippery child thief.

 

I don't think we have seen the end of the Ym interlude have we? If I recall it just says Everything went dark or something like that.

[Moogle]

I don't think we have seen the end of the Ym interlude have we? If I recall it just says Everything went dark or something like that.

 

I believe the final line is "and his experience ended".

 

That said, if everything went dark, it supports the theory that he Lightweaved himself invisible. Invisible people would be blind since no light could be absorbed by their retinas.

[Shardlight]

I believe the final line is "and his experience ended".

 

That said, if everything went dark, it supports the theory that he Lightweaved himself invisible. Invisible people would be blind since no light could be absorbed by their retinas.

 

That's what I was hoping for. It's fun to learn and see new surgebinders and what they can do. Hopefully Ym get away like Lift.

[Peet]

Back to a followup question I had earlier: Does a surgebinder who can soulcast or perform regrowth need to breathe in the stormlight, or is being in contact with an infused gem enough?

[Aminar]

We don't have a real way of knowing, but given Stormlight's generic effects(healing, sustaining the holder without breathing, etc; I would guess everyone breathe's it in for the most part. Obviously Lift gets around that, but she's special, an outlier more than anything else.

[soulcastJam]

If you think about infusing things the way Szeth does, there needs to be contact made.  So, if the stormlight went from the gem into the wall, either the gem would have to touch the wall or it would have to flow from the gem through the surgebinder and into the wall.  At least, that's the way I think about it.

[Aleksiel]

I always assumed inhaling stormlight was only Windrunners thing since that's their body focus.

[Moogle]

I always assumed inhaling stormlight was only Windrunners thing since that's their body focus.

 

That was my original thought, but you'll have to justify that by predicting what the other Orders will do to get Stormlight. Shallan will... throw blood on spheres to get Stormlight? It doesn't really work. It's much easier to say that they likely can all inhale it in. Also, how would the Skybreakers exhale out to get it?

[Aleksiel]

That was my original thought, but you'll have to justify that by predicting what the other Orders will do to get Stormlight. Shallan will... throw blood on spheres to get Stormlight? It doesn't really work. It's much easier to say that they likely can all inhale it in. Also, how would the Skybreakers exhale out to get it?

 

Well, how does one breath in light in the first place? 

[Moogle]

It's not light. Stormlight is probably the gaseous form of a Shard. It's used like the mists.

Edited February 17, 2014 by Moogle

[Aminar]

It's not light, Stormlight is probably the gaseous form of a Shard. It's used like the mists.

Then why does the cut of a gem increase rather than decrease how much stormlight a gem can hold? And how would a gas be put into a gem? If anything stormlight is the purest form of investiture we've seen. It's straight up energy, and acts like it. The breath is just a function of how Surgebinder's are allowed to interact with that energy.

Even the way Stormlight is breathed in doesn't actually act like a gas, as it can be summoned from across a room, out of sacks, etc. No regular breath could do that.(meaning the breathing in of stormlight isn't evidence towards its gaseousness.)

Edited February 17, 2014 by Aminar

[Moogle]

Why does the cut of a gem increase rather than decrease how much stormlight a gem can hold?

Because faceting a gem removes impurities and other flaws which would make it like a 'bad alloy' from Mistborn.

 

It's also worth noting that we only know the cut of a gem increases Stormlight retention as per WoB, not necessarily that it holds more Stormlight. Shallan is the one who remarks that cut gems hold more Stormlight, and she's not necessarily a very reliable narrator. It could be that uncut gems not holding on to Stormlight as well and running out sooner made her think that uncut gems hold less, when they just don't hold on to it for as long.

 

It may also be that faceting a gem makes it stronger structurally so that the stress of Stormlight being withdrawn from it in Soulcasting does not crack it. This would result in people thinking that it holds more Stormlight, when people can just use the Stormlight in it at a larger rate without cracking it.

 

This could also be wrong. I suspect there's a deeper reason that has to do with the cut of a gem representing a certain shape or symbol that is important in the Cosmere (hence why different spren are attracted to different cuts). Different cuts of gemstones give off different patterns of Stormlight.

 

 

And how would a gas be put into a gem?

The mists can be put into metal on Scadrial. It seems that Investiture can infuse things like that. It's also worth noting that Stormlight seems to replace the blood in Surgebinders, which implies it is absorbed like oxygen/carbon dioxide.

 

 

If anything stormlight is the purest form of investiture we've seen. It's straight up energy, and acts like it. The breath is just a function of how Surgebinder's are allowed to interact with that energy.

I imagine Stormlight is tied with Breath and the mists for purest Investiture we've seen.

 

 

Even the way Stormlight is breathed in doesn't actually act like a gas, as it can be summoned from across a room, out of sacks, etc. No regular breath could do that.(meaning the breathing in of stormlight isn't evidence towards its gaseousness.)

Vin absorbed the mists from halfway across the planet. It seems that magic users can create a sort of low-pressure area inside their own bodies which causes Investiture in gaseous form to rush into this area. I suspect gemstones do a similar sort of thing.

Edited February 17, 2014 by Moogle

[eloiv]

Maybe the orders that are  battle focused are the ones that can inhale stormlight like windrunners,edgedancers and dustbringers.

[Aminar]

The mists were sentient, something stormlight hasn't been shown to be so far. Moreover, brandon has said highstorms are like the mists, which makes a whole lot more sense. Stormlight is not the Highstorms. We've never seen mists put into metal, we've seen both metal and mists power allomancy, but the mists are a shard, so we know why it can power allomancy. The metals aren't a shard.(Atium/Lerasium aside.) Your explanation(that stormlight is shard gas) just doesn't seem to work... Or at least there is less reason to look at that way than as pure investiture. That's how it's been treated all through the first book.

Your explanation of the gem cuts works for light and other wavelengths, but not for a gas. And I really hate the idea of Lift metabolizing food into gas as a power source...

[Moogle]

Your explanation(that stormlight is shard gas) just doesn't seem to work... Or at least there is less reason to look at that way than as pure investiture. That's how it's been treated all through the first book.

 

Perhaps this is where we're disagreeing - I think that pure Investiture, when it manifests in the Physical Realm, takes on a physical form. Stormlight is still pure Investiture to me. Preservation's Investiture took on the physical form of a metal (solid), the Well (liquid), and the mists (gas). It's still pure Investiture, it's just a Physical representation of it.

 

The mists don't act like gases, either. They won't enter buildings, for example. If they do, they dissipate. It seems that any Investiture-filled objects don't follow the regular rules.

 

 

Your explanation of the gem cuts works for light and other wavelengths, but not for a gas. And I really hate the idea of Lift metabolizing food into gas as a power source...

 

Bacteria in your gut do it, why can't Lift?

[PorridgeBrick]

The mists were sentient, something stormlight hasn't been shown to be so far. Moreover, brandon has said highstorms are like the mists, which makes a whole lot more sense. Stormlight is not the Highstorms. We've never seen mists put into metal, we've seen both metal and mists power allomancy, but the mists are a shard, so we know why it can power allomancy. The metals aren't a shard.(Atium/Lerasium aside.) Your explanation(that stormlight is shard gas) just doesn't seem to work... Or at least there is less reason to look at that way than as pure investiture. That's how it's been treated all through the first book.

Your explanation of the gem cuts works for light and other wavelengths, but not for a gas. And I really hate the idea of Lift metabolizing food into gas as a power source...

There's a WoB that this actually can be done, just like a fabrial. It's a very plausible possibility for how the Southern Scadrialans are able to perform mechanical allomancy.

[AerionBFII]

in my opinion they all have a unique way to absorb stormlight.

[Michael Portz]

in my opinion they all have a unique way to absorb stormlight.

Defintively! Inhaling it is only one of the forms.

[Moogle]

This quote may of be of interest:

 

Jasnah closed her eyes, pressing her hand against the fallen boulder. She raised her head, inhaling slowly. The stones on the back of her hand began to glow more fiercely, the smokestone in particular growing so bright it was difficult to look at.

 

I think it is very strong evidence that they all inhaled Stormlight.

[Peet]

Good find Moogle, pairing breathing in with Soulcasting. I wonder why the gems appeared to glow brighter though. I thought breathing in stormlight took it away from the gems. Why would they glow brighter if she was breathing in their stormlight?

That raises another question. Why is the type of gem still important for her soulcasting if she only needs to breathe in stormlight to fuel the transformation?

When Shallan was poisoned with the backbreaker powder, Jasnah says, "I need a garnet" so she could soulcast Shallan's blood to save her.

I wonder what other evidence or explanations we will get in WoR. A couple more weeks!

Edited February 17, 2014 by Peet