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The Thrill

Pinpoint

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Pinpoint

Pinpoint

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Odium seems like he is the shard of the destruction of life. The thrill (the thrill that sickens Dalinar) comes to those who destroy life.

I think that maybe this is why the Radiants dumped the shardblades. The shardblades allow a lot of destruction thus allowing Odium to better influence the one destroying. Could the thrill be Odium's influence? This could also explain why spren don't like shardblades. shardblades allow Odium to have a more potent prescence in the bearer

 

I think that there are two things that influence Odiums power.

1. Stone ( abscence of life))

2. Destruction of life

 

think about thunder clasts for example. they were made out of stone and they were very destructive. the were Odiums little minions.

 

There is also a stark contrast between life and the destruction of life in this book. Kaladin is a Surgeon, he heals people and brings life. I also think that a persons willingness to bring life influences their bond with a spren. Take Ym for example. He cares about life and healing. That seems to be a common theme among those who have a bond with spren. They seem to care about life. This might be why Kaladin is immune to the thrill as well.

 

I don't think that it is a coincidence that the Shin are both seemingly peacful and they don't live around stone.

 

The alethi are very warlike and destructive and they are always around rock.

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Gloom

Gloom

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Posted

Odium is the Shard of Hatred. He is the definition of Odium, not destruction. Sylphrena hates Dalinars Shardblade. Shallans Cryptic doesn't seem all that disturbed by hers. We've seen three different types of Shardblades in TWoKs.

 

 

Millennium
Some dictionaries list two meanings for the word "odium": the feeling of strong hatred, and that which provokes hatred from others. Do both of these apply to the Shard with that name?
Brandon Sanderson
Yes

 

mycoltbug
Is there any ramifications to the holder of a shard blade for using a blade in a manner that it wasn't intended?
Brandon Sanderson
Depends on the type of Shardblade. (You have seen three different kinds in TWoK.) For most, no. For some, most certainly.

 

Stone is important, this has been discussed in depth and pretty much everyone agrees. Why it is important is still in question.

 

As far as caring about life...

 

Kaladin cares about protecting those who can not protect themselves. In some respects this can be construed as the same thing, but I think it is important to point out that Kaladin has not taken a Hippocratic Oath, and has not only killed both human and non-human combatant, but he excels at doing so.

 

Alethkar was appointed to be the defenders of Roshar during the period of the Silver Kingdoms. They have a long and glorious history going back thousands upon thousands of years in which their primary focus was the arts martial. This is why they are the most warlike nation on Roshar. They are not the only nation on Roshar that is covered in rock. Nantanatan is also largely barren of soil, as are many other nations.

 

I have my doubts that the Shin are quite as peaceful as they appear. It does appear that they send agents out into the world that cause chaos and dissension amongst the other nations from time to time.

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Aether

Aether

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Odium seems like he is the shard of the destruction of life. The thrill (the thrill that sickens Dalinar) comes to those who destroy life.

It should be worth noting that the Thrill and that which made Dalinar sick are most likely two different things. The Thrill is something Lighteyes (it has not been confirmed that Darkeyes feel it too) when they're fighting that makes them revel in and take pleasure from slaughtering enemy combatants. It is assumed to be a creation of Odium to subtly influence humanity into becoming its own worst enemy, and given Dalinar's new-found moral values, his body now seems to reject it.

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Cortez

Cortez

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I thought Kaladin experienced the Thrill when he was first sparring with Jost;

 

 

Something changed in that moment. Kal felt an energy as he held the weapon, an excitement that washed away his pain.

 

I've always interpreted that excitement as being the same as the Thrill.

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Aether

Aether

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Some do, but Brandon has been particularly vague on that account:

Q: In response to the RAFO I complained that I didn't even get to my third question which was does Kaladin feel the Thrill?

A: He laughed and said, No he does not. Kaladin is "immune" to the Thrill.

Q: I then pointed out the basis for my theory beginning with the flashback chapter where Kaladin whales on Jost with the quarterstaff.

A: Brandon then said, "What you didn't ask was whether Kaladin had ever felt the Thrill". He then went on to say that that was not a confirmation or a denial.
<source>

 

There is also another quote somewhere where Brandon says that "something is definitely going on there" or something pertaining to his short joust with Jost, but he did not want to specify if it was the Thrill or not. (see what I did there?)

Edited by Aether
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Shardlet

Shardlet

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Enter the self-proclaimed Thrill-Meister.  This is one of my favorite pet topics and I have asked Brandon several questions about it.  Kaladin is indeed immune to the Thrill and during the sparring with Jost in the flashback, "something odd is happening there".  Dalinar has many times over the years experienced the Thrill, but at the Battle of the Tower, something different is beginning to happen.  The Thrill does clearly seem to be sourced from Odium by it's nature and effect.

 

Source

Q: Is the Thrill, with a capital 'T', more than an adrenaline rush or battle rush?  (I indicated that it seemed very clear to e that there was a lot more to it.

A:  Brandon wrote the answer to this in my book that he was signing by writing "You are a very smart man!"

 

Q:  Is the Thrill an exclusively lighteyed trait?

A: RAFO

 

Q: In response to the RAFO I complained that I didn't even get to my third question which was does Kaladin feel the Thrill?

A:  He laughed and said, No he does not. Kaladin is "immune" to the Thrill.

 

Q: I then pointed out the basis for my theory beginning with the flashback chapter where Kaladin whales on Jost with the quarterstaff.

A: Brandon then said, "What you didn't ask was whether Kaladin had ever felt the Thrill".   He then went on to say that that was not a confirmation or a denial.

 

 

 

Source

Quote

Q: In the Kaladin-Jost sparring flashback, does Kaladin feel the Thrill?

 

A: Did Kaladin feel the Thrill that, Whaoo, that’s a good question.  I’m gonna RAFO that one because something odd is happening there that I don’t want to get into yet.

 

Quote

Q: At the Battle of the Tower, the Thrill Dalinar describes seems different from previously described Thrills.  Is something different happening here?

 

A: Something different is happening.

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Haelbarde

Haelbarde

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In Chapter 19, there is this quote:

The old Thrill, the sense of battle, consumed him. It did not enrage him, as it did some men, but everything seemed to become clearer, crisper. His muscles moved easil; he breathed more deeply. He came alive.

Could 'old' refer to the fact that the Thrill used to feel like something, but then changed? (This is in one of the visions, when he fights with the iron poker)

Also, he notes that the Thrill doesn't enrage him. Enraging is something I'd imagine would be linked to Odium. He just gets the heightened awareness. Was the Thrill influenced by Odium? Or is Odium the source of the Thrill, but this Thrill of Dalinar's is Honor/Cultivation influenced?

Edited by Haelbarde
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The Count

The Count

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Hmmm.

Maybe this is a case of 'act with honor and honor will sid you'.

Dalinar is fighting for the right reasons at tge battle if the tower so the Thrill aids rather than enrages him.

Before he was fighting for glory or prestige (selfish reasons) so the Thrill acted in accordance.

Maybe the Thrilk is neither of Honor or of Odium but merely responds to the intent / actions of the individual.

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Haelbarde

Haelbarde

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Posted (edited)

I would note that there is no mention of the Thrill 'enraging'.  Check out the debunked theory in my signature for a breakdown of the descriptions of the Thrill found in WoK.

Well, I'd sorta say that the quote I cited mentions that the Thrill enrages (just not Dalinar). Of course, seeing as Dalinar likely has never talked to others about it directly, the rage could be as a result of the heightened focus, and then the Alethi culture, leading to a berserker mentality, particularly when combined with shards.

EDIT: Got mixed up with Shardlet's replies to this and http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/4631-theory-thrillspren-spoilers/page-2#entry80820 thread.

Edited by Haelbarde
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don_karma_II

don_karma_II

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Posted

I was having a re-read of WoK and I came up with this explanation for the thrill.
 
We know these for facts:
 
1. Kaladin is immune to the thrill.
2. Kaladin might have experienced the thrill in the past (While fighting with Jost)
3. Dalinar doesn't feel the thrill when fighting the last battle against Parshendi for survival.
4. (*Spoilers) Thrill leaves suddenly in the middle of a fight for Adolin. (*spoilers)  ( P.S Sorry dunno how to tag spoilers. Much obliged if any of the mods can help me out here)
 
Theory or Speculation:
 
Thrill depends upon the intent of the person fighting. Those fighting for their own needs and glory feel the thrill. It explains why Kaladin is immune to the thrill. Kaladin particularly says he never fights cold or empty, he always cares for those who he fights for. Only time Kaladin feels what seems like the thrill, he was fighting for himself, to make himself seem important with Laral watching or for glory. 
 
Dalinar doesn't feel the thrill during the fight at the tower. It is the only time Dalinar is fighting to save the life of his men. He is fighting for others rather than his soldiers fighting for him. Every other time he fights the parshendi, Its for Gemheart.
 
*Spoilers

 

The thrill leaves Adolin during his fight for shard blade. The reason is his motive or his intent. He is not fighting for his glory, They'll probably say he cheated. He has no intention of making a show out of it. He just wants to end it. It's just like the moment when Kal realises that he is probably hurting Jost and feels that what he is doing is wrong. The thrill leaves the exact moment when that happens.  *Spoilers

 

The intent of the fighter seems to determine the activation of thrill or not. What do you guys think? Feel free to point out any holes in my theory!

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Aether

Aether

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You make a really convincing point, and I more or less agree with you but for one thing: while the Thrill is "activated" or "deactivated" by your motivations for fighting, I think there is possible to become completely immune to it as well, as Kaladin currently is. Whether this is an effect of the Nahel Bond, or the result of abandoning fighting for the glory of it, I do not know, but I interpret the WoB as meaning that Kaladin is physically immune to it.

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don_karma_II

don_karma_II

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You make a really convincing point, and I more or less agree with you but for one thing: while the Thrill is "activated" or "deactivated" by your motivations for fighting, I think there is possible to become completely immune to it as well, as Kaladin currently is. Whether this is an effect of the Nahel Bond, or the result of abandoning fighting for the glory of it, I do not know, but I interpret the WoB as meaning that Kaladin is physically immune to it.

 

Yes, we know Kaladin is immune to the thrill. But we don't know from what point of time. It can be because of his nahel bond with Syl. OR can it be because of the ideals he follows? Kaladin now has not one but two ideals he follows. So whenever he fights, he fights for those ideals and here itself the intent is bound within the scope of the ideals itself, which is Life before death, Journey before destination, Strength before weakness and also I'll protect those who can't protect themselves. So if he fights for those ideals, naturally he will be immune to the thrill as the ideals or the scope of the ideals and thereby its intent is not self serving.

Edited by don_karma_II
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weebojello

weebojello

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Posted

You are correct.  I should have been more clear.  The Dalinar doesn't experience rage with the Thrill nor has he apparently ever experienced rage with it.

IIRC, didn't he nearly come to blows with his brother, Gavilar, after one battle? I can't place my finger which chapter that was in.

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Aminar

Aminar

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IIRC, didn't he nearly come to blows with his brother, Gavilar, after one battle? I can't place my finger which chapter that was in.

He did, but I think that might have had something to do with Navani and his apparently regular drinking from the time period, not a berserker thrill.

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digitalbusker

digitalbusker

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Chapter 56, in the middle of a lot of meditations on the Thrill:

He remembered the times when the Thrill had been the strongest. Subduing the highprinces with Gavilar during their youths, forcing back the Vedens, fighting the Herdazians and destroying the Akak Reshi. Once, the thirst for battle had nearly led him to attack Gavilar himself. Dalinar could remember the jealousy on that day some ten years ago, when the itch to attack Gavilar--the only worthy opponent he could see, the man who had won Navani's hand--had nearly consumed him.
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Aminar

Aminar

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That isn't wrath then. It falls into the spirit of competition, something most people associate with the Thrill, at least given Sadeas's comments. It's a desire to win, to conquer, to be challenged.

(For reference this isn't completely a Roshar specific thing. It's built atop natural inclinations that anyone with normal male Tesotsterone levels and a healthy dopamine addiction will get from life threatening situations, fights, and the like.) There is clearly something extra about the Thrill on Roshar, but the first time I read the book I assumed it was a cultural thing, because I've felt the Thrill. I understand it. Assuming Brandon based it on the feeling I'm thinking of, it wouldn't have much to do with Anger to begin with, as angry fighters tend to be stupid fighters(tough as hell, but stupid.)

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