What are Highstorms?

[Araris Valerian]

This post is largely a collection of information about what the highstorms have been shown to do and my take on them.

 

Firstly, highstorms can be predicted mathematically with some degree of accuracy ~80% by Lirin.

Secondly, WoB is that they serve a similar function to the mists in some way.

The Mists did several things: They were attracted to allomancers, they could be used to fuel allomancy by certain individuals, they countered the power of Ruin to some extent and allomancers burning tin became attuned to them.

I believe a passing remark was made about desolations being predicted mathematically has also been made. Mists were also the body of Preservation. The likely explanation is that this last point is what Brandon meant about mists and highstorms being related, but I thought about taking the connections one step further.

 

From these, we can draw parallels. The Highstorms certainly fuel surgebinding, although not as directly as the mists fueled Vin. Kaladin had a unique experience of seeing a face in the highstorm which can be connected to the attraction of mists to invested beings. (people with magic have some special resonance with the body of the shard powering them)

 

My speculations are that the two other functions of the mists are also mirrored by highstorms. Both Desolations and Highstorms have the potential to be predicted with some accuracy. Thus, highstorms may be related to stopping desolations in some way. This covers both the countering of Odium's power and the mathematical predictions of each. If a highstorm occurs every time that a desolation has the potential to happen, they could block Odium's attacks.

 

Does anyone have any other ideas on how these interactions might occurs or whether they happen at all?

 

[bookspren]

I completely agree with you that the highstorms are the body of a shard. I believe this shard to be Honor for several reasons.

• Stormlight fuels surgebinding which is at least partially of Honor; Cultivation was probably also involved.
• Kaladin's Child of Tanavast vision and the face he saw during his trial-by-ordeal
• No evidence tying Odium to the storms.

My one problem with your theory about Desolations being predictable is IIRC that was only fan speculation not WoB. I would love to know where you saw that though. Nothing like being proven wrong . You are absolutely correct that highstorms are predictable to a certain degree. I never considered how that might relate to the Shards though. Then again, I totally missed the significance of sixteen in HoA until it was stated outright.

Someone(Navani I think), mentions that the storms are getting stronger and/or more frequent. I forget the exact details and I don't have my book right now. Anyway, there is a connection between the Storms and the Desolations, so I think you could be right that they are both predictable. Symmetry is very important to Roshar after all.

Thanks for posting this. It got me thinking. Have an upvote for your troubles.

Edited November 20, 2013 by bookspren

[bookspren]

Aargh! It deleted my post and I don't have time to retype it now. I'll get back to this later.

 

Edit: Okay, technical difficulties averted. I have deleted the spoilery stuff. I'm sorry, I completely forgot we aren't supposed to mention it outside the special forum.

Edited November 20, 2013 by bookspren

[Arook]

 

 

My speculations are that the two other functions of the mists are also mirrored by highstorms. Both Desolations and Highstorms have the potential to be predicted with some accuracy. Thus, highstorms may be related to stopping desolations in some way. This covers both the countering of Odium's power and the mathematical predictions of each. If a highstorm occurs every time that a desolation has the potential to happen, they could block Odium's attacks.

 

 

 

I don't think odium would be limited to a pattern for attack from what we know of odium I don't think its intent would work like that.

 

 

What I think is likely is that honor created the storms to spread spiritual energy or even to control an existing rift between the physical and spiritual realm. The pattern of the storms of almost one a week and then like a month or so of light rain and clouds. I wonder if spren are less common during the weeping? The weeping is what really messes with It. Storms must be important to Voidbringer's too other wise they would just wait for the weeping and attack while all the spheres are dun.

[Araris Valerian]

WoB is that if two magics behave the same way then chances are that they are very related. I saw this on his first interview with 17th shard which I don't have a link for, but it was related to the unifying theory of magic. The number 16 (which is mathematical) was important not only to adonalsium, but to preservation and ruin as well. If mathematics is important for one magic system on Roshar, then quite possibly it could affect they other as well. Assuming that the storms are the body of Honor, it is quite possible also that the attunement of surgebinders with honor type Nahel bonds allows them to be more capable of navigating highstorms, just like mistborn were more capable of navigating the mists. This does coincide with Kaladin surviving the highstorm, although this is most likely due to him using stormlight to heal any potentially mortal wounds he obtained with the skymark he held onto.

[Oudeis]

I completely agree with you that the highstorms are the body of a shard. I believe this shard to be Honor for several reasons.

• Stormlight fuels surgebinding which is at least partially of Honor; Cultivation was probably also involved. I don't know if you have participated in the shardhunt but...

   

 

 

 

Your spoiler tag didn't take... in case people who don't want to see show up, can you fix it? Thanks!

[Gloom]

There is another important similarity between Highstorms and Mists. In fact I would say this is possibly the most important similarity, at least in the case of Roshar. Both of these events are heightened forms of natural phenomena that likely existed prior to the Shards involvement on that world. Life on Roshar has completely adapted to Highstorms. This is a process that takes a very very long period of time to accomplish. I would speculate that it would require more time than that which has passed since the splintering of Adonalsium. I would speculate that Honor, and possibly Cultivation invested in the volatile storms that wracked the Pangaea. That it was through investing in these already naturally occurring phenomena that the Highstorms became somewhat predictable.

 

Human evolution doesn't count in regards to the adaptation of life on Roshar, on the contrary, in some respects it stands as a marker to show how little time has passed since the coming of Honor on an evolutionary scale. On the other hand humans are one of the few beings capable of adapting the environment to suit our needs on a scale larger than that of building a nest.

 

EDIT: Just FYI, spoiler tags aren't required in Cosmere Theories anyways.

Edited November 20, 2013 by Gloom

[Morsk]

I haven't seen this mentioned, but I may have missed it.

Stormlight and Mists are both strange about not coming indoors. Gems have to be recharged outdoors, even though we know the recharging is a lot more magical than physical. It has the power to sweep across a continent in a huge pulse recharging gems everywhere, but it can't get through a wall. Mists also just didn't like coming inside, even when there was nothing physical (heat, etc.) stopping them.

[Shardlet]

• Stormlight fuels surgebinding which is at least partially of Honor; Cultivation was probably also involved. I don't know if you have participated in the shardhunt but...

 

You need to edit this post bookspren.  Not only did your spoiler tag get entered in incorrectly, Steelhunt info should not be discussed outside the steelhunt forum, even in spoiler tags.

Edited November 20, 2013 by Shardlet

[WeiryWriter]

EDIT: Just FYI, spoiler tags aren't required in Cosmere Theories anyways.

 

Steelhunt (and maybe WoR) spoilers should be tagged though.  (Actually, I think the policy is still "No Steelhunt spoilers outside the Steelhunt spoiler forum")

[Argent]

I haven't seen this mentioned, but I may have missed it.

Stormlight and Mists are both strange about not coming indoors. Gems have to be recharged outdoors, even though we know the recharging is a lot more magical than physical. It has the power to sweep across a continent in a huge pulse recharging gems everywhere, but it can't get through a wall. Mists also just didn't like coming inside, even when there was nothing physical (heat, etc.) stopping them.

 

This is a very good point. Strictly physical speaking, the highstorms shouldn't be able to differentiate between a sphere put in a closed basket outside, and a sphere sitting inside a house. But they do. I was thinking about this a couple of weeks back, wondering why people can't just build small pockets on the outside walls of their houses or something... but I never made the connection with the mists refusing to enter buildings. +1

[Araris Valerian]

There is another important similarity between Highstorms and Mists. In fact I would say this is possibly the most important similarity, at least in the case of Roshar. Both of these events are heightened forms of natural phenomena that likely existed prior to the Shards involvement on that world. Life on Roshar has completely adapted to Highstorms. This is a process that takes a very very long period of time to accomplish. I would speculate that it would require more time than that which has passed since the splintering of Adonalsium. I would speculate that Honor, and possibly Cultivation invested in the volatile storms that wracked the Pangaea. That it was through investing in these already naturally occurring phenomena that the Highstorms became somewhat predictable.

Just to provide an alternate option, on Scadrial which is our closest link to Roshar and the highstorms, the adaptations (to the ashmounts) occurred via shardly powers opposed to the evolution happening over time. So, Roshar could have had similar influences, thus allowing highstorms to have come about as a result of Honor being splintered. Also, while this might not be related, greatshells fit into the ecosystems of Roshar very snugly and I think we have WoB that they can survive at such large sizes due to investiture for honor/cultivation along with lesser amounts of gravity. This would also take a long period of time, which implies similar time lengths both before and after Honor arrived.

Edited November 20, 2013 by Araris Valerian

[Arook]

Great shells could have grown due to shardic influence I would even go so far as to say all creatures with gem hearts came about due to shardic influence. its is however hard to say if honor and cultivation created all life or just altered existing life. If the shards only needed to create sentient life then it my be that Adonalsium created the great shells and other gem heart creature. Our info dating before Adonalsium's shattering is very limited.

 

 

Also with a god figure creating things all over the place I cant see to much evolution happening as things would most likely just be created to survive and adapt but given a  skill set to work with.

[Vortaan]

This is a very good point. Strictly physical speaking, the highstorms shouldn't be able to differentiate between a sphere put in a closed basket outside, and a sphere sitting inside a house. But they do. I was thinking about this a couple of weeks back, wondering why people can't just build small pockets on the outside walls of their houses or something... but I never made the connection with the mists refusing to enter buildings. +1

 

I wonder if the connection is a Cognitive one. If you build an alcove into the outside wall of your house, does it perceive itself as part of the house, or separate? If it perceives itself as separate, does that block the mist/Stormlight from entering? I'm more inclined to think that it is a Cognitive barrier because I believe the mists and Stormlight are both more Spiritual and Physical in nature.

[Shardlet]

This is a very good point. Strictly physical speaking, the highstorms shouldn't be able to differentiate between a sphere put in a closed basket outside, and a sphere sitting inside a house. But they do. I was thinking about this a couple of weeks back, wondering why people can't just build small pockets on the outside walls of their houses or something... but I never made the connection with the mists refusing to enter buildings. +1

 

I suspect the difference is that the spheres (and gems) need to be out and exposed to the storm itself.  The baskets used are likely described as baskets because they are of some kind of mesh design to keep the gems and spheres safe inside the basket yet exposed to the storm to receive stormlight.

 

Just to provide an alternate option, on Scadrial which is our closest link to Roshar and the highstorms, the adaptations (to the ashmounts) occurred via shardly powers opposed to the evolution happening over time. So, Roshar could have had similar influences, thus allowing highstorms to have come about as a result of Honor being splintered. Also, while this might not be related, greatshells fit into the ecosystems of Roshar very snugly and I think we have WoB that they can survive at such large sizes due to investiture for honor/cultivation along with lesser amounts of gravity. This would also take a long period of time, which implies similar time lengths both before and after Honor arrived.

 

For the ecology to be made such after the splintering of Honor, it would have had to have been something on the scale of what Rashek did to the northern continent on Scadrial.  The entire ecology would have had to been immediately adapted to withstand the storms. 

 

There are two reasons why I don't think that this is what happened. 1) Cultivation would have had to have been the one to do it and I doubt that she would have had much motivation to do so after he partner of however many thousands of years just died.  2) Humans (and other fleshy humanoid races), horses, chickens, etc. were not adapted to resist the storms.  The combination of these two factors suggests to me that the ecology was already adapted to severe regularly occurring storms before Honor was splintered.

[Argent]

I am not entirely convinced on the basket thing. What defines "exposure to the highstorm?" The air? The rain? Some energy bound to the storm itself? Each one of those sound like it would be possible to build your house to have a tiny room, or even a small compartment, fully inside except for a small hole somewhere stormward - something that would allow the rain / air / energy to flow in.

[Shardlet]

Maybe that is done in many cases.  We haven't seen how this is accomplished except in very few and select circumstances.  The most apparent one is of course with Gaz (who of course would not have had any say in how his lodgings were constructed) and perhaps something in the flashbacks where you have a town comprised nearly exclusively of darkeyes where a darkeye of second nahn is the highest ranking darkeye in town.  How do the wealthy accomplish it when they would need to infuse large quantities of spheres which are used for lighting among other various uses?  If the requirement was only that they could not be inside the house or something that is part of the house, it would seem to be far more secure to have them locked in strongboxes fixed in place outside which were inaccessible to anyone other than those who should be accessing them.  Baskets of any kind would be far less secure.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Shardlet

[Arook]

I believe that an exposed alcove is acceptable they talk about them in when discussing banks.

[Araris Valerian]

@Shardlet On Scadrial TLR left a sampling of original humans in the southern half of the planet. If Cultivation was driven by her intent to adapt the people of Roshar then she might have done something similar with Shinovar, the only place we know of that produces chickens and horses and such.