Chromium Compounder Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 I'm not sure if we're allowed to talk about excerpts Brandon has read from unpublished works, but he links to the video of him reading it on his website, so I figured it might be ok. If not please let me know. Anyway, in his reading of Shadows of Self there seems to be a book that is written by Marsh about Hemalurgy. That in itself is cool, because it means we might find out more about the most mysterious of the Metallic Arts, but the small portion of it we get to hear sounds like Marsh is saying that Hemalurgy has changed and that it's no longer evil. I'm wondering what exactly he means by that, and what all is involved with the change. Is the change simply that those with hSpikes in them now hear Harmony instead of Ruin? I've been wondering about that, and I don't think all of the violence and sadism of the Koloss and the Inquisitors could be from Ruin whispering in their ears. I think I saw someone else hint at this idea before, but basically it's that those with an hSpike get a little of the intent (either Ruin or Harmony) which constantly affects them, even when not actually hearing the whispers. The stronger the mind of the person the more they can resist this intent, hence the reason Ruin frequently had to focus on Marsh. So, is this change simply that the whispers and the intent coming through the hSpike is now Harmony? Or has more changed about Hemalurgy? After all, if that's all that's changed, there's still the fact that Hemalurgy is as Marsh put it "messy". Could something have changed to make it less so? Perhaps the spikes no longer have to go through the person's heart to steal investiture from them? Perhaps it could go through other parts of their bodies, which they have a chance of surviving? Or perhaps it's changed in some other way? I don't know. Anyway, food for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 I pretty sure the book was written by Spook, not Marsh. (I remember someone asking Brandon about it and him saying "it certainly doesn't sound like Marsh") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) First off, some housekeeping. Marsh didn't write the book. Quote Q: Was the book Wax reading written by the guy who gave it to him? A: No, it was not. Me: Spook? Sounds like Spooks voice. A: (smiling) It certainly doesn’t sound like Marsh. That is me suggesting the author is Spook. Semi-ninja Weiry . I'm almost certain that the author is referring to the demise of Ruin and the rise of Harmony. There is no longer a destructive force taking over and influencing spiked folk to do destructive things. I don't see any indication that hemalurgy is any less 'messy'. Edited October 31, 2013 by Shardlet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 I'm almost certain that the author is referring to the demise of Ruin and the rise of Harmony. There is no longer a destructive force taking over and influencing spiked folk to do destructive things. I don't see any indication that hemalurgy is any less 'messy'. Yah, I'd agree with this. Though I would stipulate it was the demise of Ati-Ruin (since Ruin the unthinking mass of energy still exists) and a "malevolent" force instead of "destructive" (because Sazed still has the destruction impulses that Ati had, they are just tempered by Preservation's impulses). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkarma Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) Also don't forget that if Wax was actually drawing on the power of the mists in the final fight of AoL then hemalurgic spikes (Which I'm assuming what his Earing is though highly underpowered) no longer interferes with the mist. Or conversely Harmony Spikes allows you access to the mist itself. Edited October 31, 2013 by Darkarma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Yah, I'd agree with this. Though I would stipulate it was the demise of Ati-Ruin (since Ruin the unthinking mass of energy still exists) and a "malevolent" force instead of "destructive" (because Sazed still has the destruction impulses that Ati had, they are just tempered by Preservation's impulses). I don't think of Ati-Ruin as evil or malevolent any more than I think Leras-Preservation was good or benevolent. Ruin wasn't destructive because he wanted to have power or control. He saw (because of the strength of his intent over him) the end of Scadrial as the natural completion of what Ruin and Preservation started so long ago. A natural completion which was long overdue because of Preservation's duplicity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 I don't think of Ati-Ruin as evil or malevolent any more than I think Leras-Preservation was good or benevolent. Ruin wasn't destructive because he wanted to have power or control. He saw (because of the strength of his intent over him) the end of Scadrial as the natural completion of what Ruin and Preservation started so long ago. A natural completion which was long overdue because of Preservation's duplicity. (Oops this kind of is a result of my mental definition of malevolent being "incorrect") I agree that Ati-Ruin wasn't Evil but he was certainly a hostile entity to life on Scadrial, that is why I label him as "malevolent." I know he was only acting according to his nature but doing so would be considered "bad" from the point of view the people he was destroying. On the mist... I think it is necessary to keep in mind that Sazed-Harmony is actively controlling the mists at that point. The whole FE-mist's aversion to spikes thing is a result of them being a mostly mindless creation, it is instinctively retreating from the power of its opposite. (And of course there are the Ruin-mists, but I don't think they really are factor in that case...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkarma Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) I just found this here Q - What happens when you burn a Hemalurgic spike? A - Burning a Hemalurgic spike would have the effect of splicing your spiritual DNA to that of the person’s that is in the spike, which would have some very strange consequences. My old hoid using a Larasium Hemalurgy spike theory is coming back... with an Adonalsium avatar... but that aside. This strikes me as a way of permanently investing one's self with the power as well as something else? I don't know how relevant this is but I'd thought it be good to inject into this conversation and see what shows up as a result. Edited October 31, 2013 by Darkarma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 You know, I used to scoff at the attention people have paid to speculating on lerasium spikes as being not particularly pertinent. But, I am beginning to think that that is precisely the purpose to which Hoid has put the bead of lerasium he has. His line in the letter about protecting the element like his own skin is suggestive that he keeps the lerasium within him. I always have a hard time keeping in mind that a spike does not have to be very big (as seen with Vin's earring). I don't know how he would have gotten the knowledge of what one would do with a lerasium spike. But now I am paying a bit more attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rooster Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) You know, I used to scoff at the attention people have paid to speculating on lerasium spikes as being not particularly pertinent. But, I am beginning to think that that is precisely the purpose to which Hoid has put the bead of lerasium he has. His line in the letter about protecting the element like his own skin is suggestive that he keeps the lerasium within him. I always have a hard time keeping in mind that a spike does not have to be very big (as seen with Vin's earring). I don't know how he would have gotten the knowledge of what one would do with a lerasium spike. But now I am paying a bit more attention. damnation, I never even connected that "the element" would refer to the lerasium but that makes a lot of sense. Edited October 31, 2013 by agrooster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 I thought the reference suggested that he had burned the bead... But now that we think about it, don't we have a WoB that he hasn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloom Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 I thought the reference suggested that he had burned the bead... But now that we think about it, don't we have a WoB that he hasn't? Mike Cockrum (23 January 2013)How many shards has Hoid received powers from, whether taken, stolen, given, etc.? Brandon Sanderson (23 January 2013)Well, he has a bead of Lerasium. This is the closest I could find that Hoid hasn't used the bead. Brandon speaks in the present tense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurkistan Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) I'll do you one better. Source: Mason Wheeler: We know that Hoid has a bead of Lerasium, that he obtained during the events of The Well of Ascension. As of the most recent Cosmere book chronologically, (The Alloy of Law, I believe,) has it been used?Brandon: Well, umm... probably not exactly in the way you're thinking...Q: OK, specifically, has it been used either by Hoid burning it or by him giving it to someone else to burn?A: Well, Hoid's a very resourceful person, and he finds uses for most of the things he gets ahold of, though they're not always the expected uses. So yeah, he's found something to do with it, but I'll have to RAFO that one, because it's going to come up in later books and I don't want to spoil things. So here's Brandon essentially saying that Hoid didn't burn the Lerasium, and probably no one else did either. Edited October 31, 2013 by Kurkistan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Not only that, but he has done something else with it. Combined with the "like my own skin" comment, I am pretty solid on the mini spike theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Not only that, but he has done something else with it. Combined with the "like my own skin" comment, I am pretty solid on the mini spike theory. Any reason you prefer the mini-spike theory to him using it as a metalmind (considering he's a Feruchemist)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 I wasn't aware he was one. I think that's a pretty solid reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Any reason you prefer the mini-spike theory to him using it as a metalmind (considering he's a Feruchemist)? There's nothing keeping him from using it as both, hemalurgic spikes can be used as metalminds after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadrok Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 First off, some housekeeping. Marsh didn't write the book. Awww. I'm so disappointed. I quite like Marsh, and was looking forward to hearing his perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyring Posted November 2, 2013 Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 If Hoid used it as a spike, he would have Sazed in his head. Now, what would be the range one wonders? Only on Scadrial or other planets too.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted November 3, 2013 Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 I think the recent comments about what would happen to a surgebinder burning lerasium suggest that there could have been... consequences to hoid simply burning the element. Using it as a spike (or spikemind) is a definite possibility instead, assuming that functions any differently to a normal spike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts