TheOneKEA Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 I just experienced a minor brainwave regarding lerasium's potential role in Hemalurgy and I'd like to know if the theory is at all plausible. Theory: A Hemalurgic spike made entirely of lerasium heals all of the physical, cognitive and spiritual damage caused by the use of any other Hemalurgic spike on a still-living donor, returning the person to the state they were in before they were spiked. A Hemalurgic spike made of Lerasium and another Hemalurgic metal only heals the damage caused by the theft of the trait stolen by a spike made of that same Hemalurgic metal. If either spike is removed, the effect is lost and the donor returns to their damaged state. This occurred to me when I was thinking about atium's use in Hemalurgy, and how it can be used to steal any trait at all from a donor. Because of everything we know and have speculated on regarding the balance between Preservation and Ruin, it occurred to me that lerasium might have a complementary and opposite effect of undoing the theft of Hemalurgically stealable traits. It makes me wonder, for example, if Marsh could be returned to normal by replacing his keystone spike with a lerasium spike and then removing all of the other ones... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 I dunno. I suppose maybe, but this just strikes me as yet another way that people are trying to justify why they can like hemalurgy without having to accept that their powers/abilities come at the expense of another human's soul. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robot Aztec Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 My Theory is that oyu need metals with Ruin to do hemarlugy so a larasium spike woudl do nothing youd just stab the guy and hed be like ''why did you stab me you jerk'' and youd say sorry and itd be really really awkeard for both of you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 My Theory is that oyu need metals with Ruin to do hemarlugy . The fact that atium works in allomancy belies your claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cartith Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 It might fix Marsh, but it would definitely kill him, as removing the keystone spike kills an Inquisitor. It is more likely, if you are right, that you would have to place the spike in its own special location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
name_here Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 I kinda doubt this one. Our precedent is Allomantic Atium, which is used for a very powerful but highly specific purpose. This seems a little too broad. That makes Lerasium pretty hard to figure out, since Hemalurgy has a confined set of things it might potentially do that the regular metals have pretty well covered, and any specific improvement to the theft process leads to the question of which abilities it works on. Maybe pure Lerasium is ineffective, but alloys have non-decay for whatever they'd normally steal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robot Aztec Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 />The fact that atium works in allomancy belies your claim. Nto Really beaucse a magic system NEEDS inevesture from the sahrd involved to work otherwise it is not linked to the shard right? and lalomancers all have little preservatgions in them whcih makes themn have their powers but anyone form anywhere on nay planet with no ivnestture can use heamlrugy if they know hwere to put the spikes and want to, but there was a RAFO on if any kinda metal could work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 ARRRGGH! Aztec, please edit your posts before posting. This is just painful to read and decipher. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Maybe pure Lerasium is ineffective, but alloys have non-decay for whatever they'd normally steal. I highly doubt that lerasium wouldn't work in hemalurgy. It would make no sense, atium works in both so lerasium should work in both. I also highly doubt lerasium or its alloys would have "non-decay" because that would kind of make them "better" than atium which doesn't have non-decay. On the OP... Eh, I'm not sure, maybe? I'm not really sure spiking can be healed though. My personal theory is that lerasium acts as an allomancy-master spike, i.e. it can be used to spike for any allomantic ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortaan Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 I highly doubt that lerasium wouldn't work in hemalurgy. It would make no sense, atium works in both so lerasium should work in both. I also highly doubt lerasium or its alloys would have "non-decay" because that would kind of make them "better" than atium which doesn't have non-decay. On the OP... Eh, I'm not sure, maybe? I'm not really sure spiking can be healed though. My personal theory is that lerasium acts as an allomancy-master spike, i.e. it can be used to spike for any allomantic ability. That seems redundant. Atium already does that. I wonder if lerasium can actually hold multiple abilities, but at lesser strength. I think that would follow the whole Preserving aspect, as you aren't wasting anything, but still accomplish the Ruin part of Hemalurgy since you still need to sacrifice someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 While I don't believe lerasium will 'heal' the "being spiked" of hemalurgy, I can actually see something of a case for it. In allomancy, lerasium re-writes your spiritweb. Normal hemalurgy rips bits off of your spiritweb. There's a connection, tenuous though it may be, that a lerasium spike could "reboot" your spiritweb, or at the very least take the ripped shreds of it and "stitch" them together. If you follow the analogy, normal hemalugy is like ripping off a person's arm and attaching that arm to someone else. In this theory of lerasium spikes, it might either give you a new arm, either the one you lost or a close simulation, or at the very least it might close off the wound, so instead of being a person with a gaping wound at your shoulder, you're an amputee. In keeping with the principles of hemalurgy, however, I think you'd still have to charge the spike by killing someone else with it. Perhaps lerasium takes the other person's spiritweb whole, instead of taking it to pieces. That's not to say that it then grants you multiple powers with a single spike, I just think that whatever effect it has requires an entire, complete spiritweb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortaan Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Keep in mind guys that Hemalurgy -always- results in a loss of power. You can't sidestep that, anymore than you can sidestep Allomancy creating a net gain. I find it more likely that whatever a lerasuium spike would do, it does it less effectively than if you are not spiked at all. I personally still think that spiking an Elend and putting that in a normal person to get a Vin is pretty darn handy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkarma Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 (edited) I'm guessing Lerasium would be a bit like atium in that it can take any attribute but only in much smaller quantities and preserves even if the spike doesn't enter the human body again. This makes it ideal for taking a bunch of little bites from a bunch of people without having to worry about it ever loosing its charge. So if Atium can take 90% of any single attribute but works like the rest of Hemalurgy in that there is a loss and continues being lost of not inserted into a body, then Lerasium would be 1% of multiple attributes permanently without need to resheath it. However given that Hoid's letter state he's keeping it as safe as his skin may mean it does loose power if not the body, or he doesn't yet know if it can experience loss or not. Combined with the fact that burning hemalurgic spikes splices the attribute into a person's spirit web and Lerasiums ability to grant all allomatic powers... could produce some very powerful abilities when applied to steal non-scandrial powers as well could mean this spike would be Hoid's endgame. Plus there's Hoid's potential for compounding given he's a feruchemist. Edited November 1, 2013 by Darkarma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted November 5, 2013 Report Share Posted November 5, 2013 I just imagined it stealing one specific albeit incredibly useful trait, although there is a case for it decaying less as well, given that Atium is used up so quickly in allomancy Lerasium should do the opposite, then again Lerasium burns instantly in allomancy so i guess that might not carry over.I was thinking something along the line of stealing fortune would be sufficiently awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortaan Posted November 5, 2013 Report Share Posted November 5, 2013 I just imagined it stealing one specific albeit incredibly useful trait, although there is a case for it decaying less as well, given that Atium is used up so quickly in allomancy Lerasium should do the opposite, then again Lerasium burns instantly in allomancy so i guess that might not carry over. I was thinking something along the line of stealing fortune would be sufficiently awesome. But atium already does this. In fact, atium steals... anything. So what would make a lerasium spike good? It either steals a lot of things... or maybe doesn't deform spiritwebs when you use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted November 6, 2013 Report Share Posted November 6, 2013 It's possible that whatever Lerasium steals is the one thing Atium can't steal, kindof like the mists can act as any allomantic metal except for Atium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortaan Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 It's possible that whatever Lerasium steals is the one thing Atium can't steal, kindof like the mists can act as any allomantic metal except for Atium. A good point. Did we have WoB that atium can steal anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeiryWriter Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 A good point. Did we have WoB that atium can steal anything? It acts as a "wildcard" in hemalurgy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortaan Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 It acts as a "wildcard" in hemalurgy. I'm more inclined to believe my taking more things at less strength theory then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelheart Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 On 10/29/2013 at 6:32 PM, TheOneKEA said: I just experienced a minor brainwave regarding lerasium's potential role in Hemalurgy and I'd like to know if the theory is at all plausible. Theory: A Hemalurgic spike made entirely of lerasium heals all of the physical, cognitive and spiritual damage caused by the use of any other Hemalurgic spike on a still-living donor, returning the person to the state they were in before they were spiked. A Hemalurgic spike made of Lerasium and another Hemalurgic metal only heals the damage caused by the theft of the trait stolen by a spike made of that same Hemalurgic metal. If either spike is removed, the effect is lost and the donor returns to their damaged state. This occurred to me when I was thinking about atium's use in Hemalurgy, and how it can be used to steal any trait at all from a donor. Because of everything we know and have speculated on regarding the balance between Preservation and Ruin, it occurred to me that lerasium might have a complementary and opposite effect of undoing the theft of Hemalurgically stealable traits. It makes me wonder, for example, if Marsh could be returned to normal by replacing his keystone spike with a lerasium spike and then removing all of the other ones... Except that you are forgetting that Atium and Lerasium are not always opposites. Allomantic Lerasium makes someone a mistborn, or increases a mistborns power, while Atium lets them see other peoples future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadeshadow227 Posted September 29, 2016 Report Share Posted September 29, 2016 My theory is that it steals some mystical attribute. Atium, being a god metal, stores YOUTH and lets you see into the rusting future, so I think that Lerasium probably has some mystical effects in Feruchemy and Hemalurgy, being a god metal. Maybe it steals a person's identity or something, IDK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted September 29, 2016 Report Share Posted September 29, 2016 We have to wait The Lost Metal but I still find likely the theory that Lerasium Spike keep everything with a Preservation Related effects (for example a not-decay or the ability a Spirit-Web without steal it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUQ Posted September 29, 2016 Report Share Posted September 29, 2016 Just as a sidenote to this, whatcha all think about the possibility of using the wildcard properties of Atium to steal Surges or Breath? Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yata Posted September 29, 2016 Report Share Posted September 29, 2016 1 hour ago, The True Survivor said: Just as a sidenote to this, whatcha all think about the possibility of using the wildcard properties of Atium to steal Surges or Breath? Just a thought. Well we know it's possible to steal Surgebinding therefore the Atium is a good candidate. Instead is impossible to store Breath because it's "too physicalt to work with Hemalurgy (that steal piece of SpiritWeb) but you may steal a Divine Breath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsdaughter613 Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 It should be noted that the effects of the Magic are often unrelated to their Shard. In this case we can do a little extrapolation. 1) Atium works as an allomantic metal, so Lerasium should work as a Hemalurgic one. 2) In allomancy, hemalurgy and feruchemy Atium Has a spiritual effect. In allomancy Lerasium has a spiritual effect. Therefore Lerasium should probably do something spiritual in hemalurgy and feruchemy. 3) Atium has an allomantic effect that no other allomantic metal can duplicate. (I believe this includes Lerasium as Vin could not give Elend Atium when she fueled his allomancy.) Therefore Lerasium should do something Atium cannot duplicate. 4) Atium allomancy gets its power from the investiture inherent in the metal, as opposed to the other metals which act as a key. Thus, Lerasium hemalurgy should also take its power from the metal. This may actually result in the spike degrading faster, but we don't know enough. my guess is that a Lerasium spike would steal the extra bit of Preservation that gives sentience to the people of Scadrial. So it would basically steal the capacity for intelligent thought... which is kind of awesome. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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