Oudeis Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 From Adolin's moment, I got the impression that it wasn't simple. If he could have simply ripped off the gem and broken it at the end of his duel, why didn't he? Why make him unbond the Blade, and then shatter the gem? Admittely, he says shattering the gem is for drama anyway, and I suppose I could see the point in forcing him to go to the humiliation of releasing his own bond, but it just feels... odd. Maybe as we learn more that scene will make more sense in hindsight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jit Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 Yes please do. I have been looking for it without much success. It all goes with my favorite theory making for which I always need new arguments. The quote I was thinking about was from Adolin not Dalinar. “He learned that man and sword were, in some ways, one. The weapon became a piece of your soul. Adolin had learned to control his Blade in this way. Usually. Today, the weapon disintegrated almost immediately after leaving his fingers. The long, silvery Blade transmuted to white vapor—holding its shape for just a brief moment, like a smoke ring—before exploding in a puff of writhing white streams.” Excerpt From: Sanderson, Brandon. “Words of Radiance.” iBooks. This material may be protected by copyright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxal Posted August 31, 2015 Report Share Posted August 31, 2015 The quote I was thinking about was from Adolin not Dalinar. “He learned that man and sword were, in some ways, one. The weapon became a piece of your soul. Adolin had learned to control his Blade in this way. Usually. Today, the weapon disintegrated almost immediately after leaving his fingers. The long, silvery Blade transmuted to white vapor—holding its shape for just a brief moment, like a smoke ring—before exploding in a puff of writhing white streams.” Excerpt From: Sanderson, Brandon. “Words of Radiance.” iBooks. This material may be protected by copyright. It does not state forcing the Blade to remain in the physical realm while not touching it is difficult. It states Adolin, at this particular point in time, for reasons not yet completely known, struggles with the command. Alternatively, we see his kid brother, new to the Blade, managing the same command without breaking sweet while being horribly distressed (Szeth first encounter, the 4 on 1 duel). Stress can be the only factor to explain how a weathered soldier such as Adolin is suddenly unable to properly command his Blade. The only command I have seen being stated was difficult is the unbonding one via the quote I produced. However, I may have missed one. Train was super late last night and I fell asleep before I could post, and now I'm running late for work. Should be able to post quotes this evening. As for this: The scene is from Kaladin's perspective, so we don't know what goes through Dalinar's head. What we do know is, while Kaladin's back is turned, Dalinar Summons the Blade. Seconds later, Kaladin is watching. He just steps forward, sticks the sword in the ground, and steps back. And Oathbringer is now unbound. From "summoning" (ergo, must be bound) to taking his hand off (unbound) has been seconds, after the most stressful and tense hours of his life. No explicit mention is made of him touching the stone, which to me says that if it even happened, it was such a casual gesture as to not be worthy of note. So, not sure why Dalinar talks about it in the abstract at the end of WoR when he has a concrete example himself, or why he says it should be hard when the two times we've seen it, it seems as easy as "think of something for a moment and press a button", like if you were asked to think about the letter "J" and then press the "J" key. As you say, we are getting Kaladin's perspective, not Dalinar's. I tend to put more faith into Dalinar's own words at the end of WoR stating it is difficult, but I agree the evidence is highly misleading. I'll wait for your quotes when you have time, no stress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Point of View doesn't matter... from Dalinar's perspective, the odd thing he says is, how he talks about unbonding a Blade in the abstract. He talks about it like it's something he's only heard of. "It's supposed to be difficult." Yet regardless of who saw him do it, we know he has already unbonded a Blade. Why is he talking about it like it's something he's only heard spoken of? Please note, these quotes don't really reveal anything new. I didn't find anything in the paragraphs before or after that pertained, but I admit my scrutiny was less than it might have been. Relevant passage from Dalinar: Justice, in Way of Kings Behind Kaladin, men gasped in surprise.Kaladin froze, then spun around. Dalinar Kholin had summoned his massive Shardblade; it dripped beads of water from having just been summoned. His armor steamed faintly, Stormlight rising fromt he cracks. Sadeas stumbled back, eyes wide. His honor guard drew their swords. Adolin Kholin reached his hand to the side, apparently beginning to summon his own Weapon. Dalinar took one step forward, then drove his Blade point-first into the middle of the blackened glyph on the stone. He took a step back. That simply, a Blade is unbound. And Adolin. From Ironstance, Words of Radiance. "Break the bond." Salinor hesitated, then touched the ruby at the weapon's pommel. The gemstone flashed with light. The bond had been broken. I certainly see nothing, either in the Dalinar scene you quoted or either of these two, to justify your hyperbole of "hardest command to send." We have one comment about how something is "supposed to be" difficult, and two examples of it being a moment's concentration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxal Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 (edited) Point of View doesn't matter... from Dalinar's perspective, the odd thing he says is, how he talks about unbonding a Blade in the abstract. He talks about it like it's something he's only heard of. "It's supposed to be difficult." Yet regardless of who saw him do it, we know he has already unbonded a Blade. Why is he talking about it like it's something he's only heard spoken of? Please note, these quotes don't really reveal anything new. I didn't find anything in the paragraphs before or after that pertained, but I admit my scrutiny was less than it might have been. Relevant passage from Dalinar: Justice, in Way of Kings That simply, a Blade is unbound. And Adolin. From Ironstance, Words of Radiance. I certainly see nothing, either in the Dalinar scene you quoted or either of these two, to justify your hyperbole of "hardest command to send." We have one comment about how something is "supposed to be" difficult, and two examples of it being a moment's concentration. I have read those quotes. The issue I believe if both are from the perspective of someone not actually doing the unbonding. If Dalinar and Salinor had needed a strong concentration to make the command work, neither Kaladin nor Adolin would be able to perceive that. From their perspective, it seemed as only "one moment" as you put it, but we can't know. It could have been a short moment of intense concentration, but we are not privy to this information. We cannot gauge the amount of concentration required based on these two quotes. However, we do have one quote where Dalinar does state it is difficult. I may be guilty of having made a hyberbole, but the Dalinar's quote is from his perspective, which is why I give it more importance. One of the reason I put a strong emphasis on this quote if we have been assuming forcing the Blade to remain solid while not touching it is the hard command and yet I have not found any quote explicitly stating this (still looking). However, I have found one where it is stated unbonding the Blade is difficult. I agree it does not tell us if it indeed is the hardest command, but we can conclude it is a hard one. Dalinar clearly states unbonding a Blade is difficult and requires a lot of concentration, but his current Blade unbonded spontaneously. I believe the passage was meant to illustrate the Blade did no enjoy being bonded to a Radiant. Well, perhaps word "enjoy" is badly chosen, but there seem to be a link with the fact Dalinar now is a Radiant and the easiness at which he can perform the command. In other words, Dalinar is surprised by it. He had not expected that. This is how I interpret this passage. Edited September 1, 2015 by maxal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natc Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Is the difficulty supposed to be a mechanical thing regarding shardblades, or is it just that it sucks to have to give up your personal weapon of mass destruction? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Perhaps when Dalinar gets his first vision of the Stormfather. I think this is the best answer we have. We know that Nightblood requires bonding to speak in people's minds; it's not much of a stretch to theorize that sending visions into Dalinar's mind requires a similar bond. Because of this, I'd pretty confidently put the upper bound of my estimate of when Dalinar began bonding the Stormfather at his first highstorm vision. Dalinar also briefly glows at the start of TWoK, so it's probably before that as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shardlet Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 I agree with Moogle. Dalinar glowing while saving Elhokar during the chasmfiend hunt in WoK is the strongest, earliest evidence of the presence of of some vestige of his bond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkness Ascendant Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Don't worry, I undid it. Doing a super short, not much to add post is kind of against the rules. To avoid more downvotes like that, feel free to read this Wait.... U can undo downvotes? How do u do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 (edited) Wait.... U can undo downvotes? How do u do that? She just upvoted you so your rep stays the same. It is a habit we sharders have of compensating for what we see as unneeded downvotes. Edited September 1, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Honor Spren Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 He just upvoted you so your rep stays the same. It is a habit we sharders have of compensating for what we see as unneeded downvotes. I hate to derail this thread at all but. . .erm. . . I'm a she? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxal Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 He just upvoted you so your rep stays the same. It is a habit we sharders have of compensating for what we see as unneeded downvotes. I always upvote every single downvote I stumble upon as I do hate them with a passion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamEternal Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 (edited) I hate to derail this thread at all but. . .erm. . . I'm a she? Sorry. Is it possible to see other people's gender above their posts in the desktop version? The mobile version is quite minimalistic, so when I post and I forget someones gender my brain defaults to male. I will edit my post. Edited September 2, 2015 by CognitivePulsePattern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxal Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Sorry. Is it possible to see other people's gender above their posts in the desktop version? The mobile version is quite minimalistic, so when I post andvI forget someones gender my brain defaults to male. I will edit my post. Bah I'm sure there are plenty of people who wrongly assume the false gender. I've been called Dude quite often, which usually makes me smile. Makes me want to say "Dude, I'm a Dudess ;)", but I never felt as if it were important enough. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02ranger Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 Bah I'm sure there are plenty of people who wrongly assume the false gender. I've been called Dude quite often, which usually makes me smile. Makes me want to say "Dude, I'm a Dudess ;)", but I never felt as if it were important enough. Wait, you're a woman too? Is this the forum all the women on the internet come to? I keep hearing they're online somewhere but have yet to encounter any....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxal Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 (edited) Wait, you're a woman too? Is this the forum all the women on the internet come to? I keep hearing they're online somewhere but have yet to encounter any....... Oh do you have children? Because if you do, I'll tell you where they are: on parenting forums and mothers groups. Older women that is, not teenagers: I have no idea where to find those. Edited September 1, 2015 by maxal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen Rope Posted September 1, 2015 Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 (edited) One here. (Edit: But a boy though, not sure if you are talking about teenagers in general, or just teenage girls.) But to be back on topic, does a proto-radiant have to not like shard blades from the start of bonding. Kaladin would still not like them even if he wasn't a radiant, one killed all of his team, and caused him to be sold into slavery. I think his first thoughts about the shard bearer that he killed was about how majestic he looked, and he was proto-bonded at this time. I think if they are at a early stage they feel nothing about them. Since the bond was stronger for Dalinar near the end of the book, he was feeling bad for having the blade. So Dalinar could of been bonded for a long time but weakly, so no blade hating. Similar the how Adolin has shown signs of no liking the thrill, so weakly bonded, but he does not feel bad using his blade. Edited September 1, 2015 by Fallen Rope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxal Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 One here. (Edit: But a boy though, not sure if you are talking about teenagers in general, or just teenage girls.) I wouldn't know either way, both of my kids are young. But to be back on topic, does a proto-radiant have to not like shard blades from the start of bonding. Kaladin would still not like them even if he wasn't a radiant, one killed all of his team, and caused him to be sold into slavery. I think his first thoughts about the shard bearer that he killed was about how majestic he looked, and he was proto-bonded at this time. I think if they are at a early stage they feel nothing about them. Since the bond was stronger for Dalinar near the end of the book, he was feeling bad for having the blade. So Dalinar could of been bonded for a long time but weakly, so no blade hating. Similar the how Adolin has shown signs of no liking the thrill, so weakly bonded, but he does not feel bad using his blade. I do not think "not liking the Blades" is a requirement, but more a consequence. Let's not forget, at the time of Helaran's death, Kaladin had a Nahel bond, just not one he was aware of. The same applies for Dalinar. As for Kaladin thinking Helaran was majestic, being a 2nd level Windrunner did not prevent from him thinking the same about dueling Adolin. Losing the Thrill seem to be a precursor of a Nahel bond, but Adolin and his Blade.......... not the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oudeis Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 I link this whenever people start mentioning what their gender is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxal Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 I link this whenever people start mentioning what their gender is. Now I have to asked... What did the forumer known as Eth'ni said to have a -81 reputation??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Honor Spren Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 Wait, you're a woman too? Is this the forum all the women on the internet come to? I keep hearing they're online somewhere but have yet to encounter any....... Pinterest.They're all on Pinterest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxal Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 Pinterest. They're all on Pinterest. Oh... Not me I am not the.. artistic type I would say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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