Theory: Hoid is the Villain!

[Turos]

Well? What do you expect from someone so secretive?

Obvious bad guy material right there.

Hoid is behind all of the trouble in each world while he conducts experiments. He wants to claim all of the power for himself and extracts it from all Shards for his superior plan to recreate everyone in his own image. Men and women alike will share his very face! For his own unique reasons, he is unable to touch the Shards, but allowing mortals to possess them make the extraction possible.

'Hoid' is only his uninventive twist on his true aspect: Void!

Edited December 21, 2011 by Turos

[Captain.Kaulu]

You had me* until this part:

'Hoid' is only his uninventive twist on his true aspect: Void!

Whatever else Hoid is, he's certainly creative enough to come up with a meaningful cover name.

* Not really. Although I could see him as a morally-gray in between character rather than a hero.

[Deus Ex Biotica]

I have always hoped for this reveal.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

P.S. Hoid is also clever enough to choose an obvious alias that nobody will guess anyway, if he thinks it's funny.

[Commander Spoonface]

Hmmmm.... I can't remember, does Way of Kings mention Hoid having a beard of any sort?

Cause if it's a goatee, I'm totally with you on this.

[Ari]

I'd rather expect his motives to be more complicated than simple heroism or villainy. It could be he wants to try and repair Adonalsium as much as possible, for instance, which could be a bad thing from certain points of view.

[Commander Spoonface]

I'd rather expect his motives to be more complicated than simple heroism or villainy. It could be he wants to try and repair Adonalsium as much as possible, for instance, which could be a bad thing from certain points of view.

Yeah, if Adonalsium is repaired, that means that all the Shards are re absorbed into a whole. That means no more allomancy, which would cause Scadrial's economy to practically collapse. Not to mention no more Shardblades, no more Breath, no more Seons on Aon Dor, etc.

[dhalagirl]

It could also mean that instead of each world only having access to the power of the local shard(s), they would then have access to all of them.

That still doesn't prove Hoid is a villain, but it doesn't disprove it either since someone well acquainted with each of the shards (like Hoid) could become the ultimate power in the Cosmere.

[Emeralis00]

Yeah, if Adonalsium is repaired, that means that all the Shards are re absorbed into a whole. That means no more allomancy, which would cause Scadrial's economy to practically collapse. Not to mention no more Shardblades, no more Breath, no more Seons on Aon Dor, etc.

Noooooooooooo! That's too horrible to contemplate. Blaspheme, Blaspheme!

[Captain.Kaulu]

I am really curious why Vin's super-intuition told her to avoid contact with Hoid in Hero of Ages.

[Zas678]

CHAOS

Is Hoid evil?

BRANDON SANDERSON

*chuckle* What do YOU think?

[Eri]

I am really curious why Vin's super-intuition told her to avoid contact with Hoid in Hero of Ages.

Considering that this super-intuition is actually Ruin's voice, it's a really interesting question.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Eri

[CrazyRioter]

actually Brandon implied in the annotations that there was something specific Hoid did to scare her off, and that she was "too observant for her own good".

[Satsuoni]

actually Brandon implied in the annotations that there was something specific Hoid did to scare her off, and that she was "too observant for her own good".

Ah-ha! Now there is proof.

Seriously, though, good and evil are extremely subjective matters. For me, Hoid's current behaviour fits the definition of "evil" rather nicely (secrecy, manipulative behavior, puzzles, etc). Not as bad as Cadsuane (who is more evil than the Dark One, IMO), but still bad. Always there in the background, lurking, scheming Hoid knows what...

[CrazyRioter]

I don't really see those things as necessarily "evil", not the purview of your traditional "Knight in Shining Armour" hero, certainly, but not necessarily outright evil. Hoid may be something of an anti-hero, a hero that sometimes veers into the murky gray area between pure heroism and villainousness, Brandon does that kind of thing a lot.

[Satsuoni]

I don't really see those things as necessarily "evil", not the purview of your traditional "Knight in Shining Armour" hero, certainly, but not necessarily outright evil. Hoid may be something of an anti-hero, a hero that sometimes veers into the murky gray area between pure heroism and villainousness, Brandon does that kind of thing a lot.

Yes, well, this is why I said "subjective". Also, being evil does not stop somebody from being hero, and Hoid is, probably, a hero, or at least protagonist... just evil. And anti-hero (IMO) is a hero that gets things done openly, just disregarding certain moral issues. (Openly to allies of course... some secrets from enemies are OK. Only a few, though). Or maybe I should use terms "deplorable" and "loathsome" instead of evil.

So maybe, until Hoid gets his own book, his designation is a matter of personal preference rather than a formality. In relation to that, I propose a spinoff biography "Ruin: betrayed and destroyed".

Edited December 30, 2011 by Satsuoni

[Aiken Frost]

Seriously, though, good and evil are extremely subjective matters. For me, Hoid's current behaviour fits the definition of "evil" rather nicely (secrecy, manipulative behavior, puzzles, etc).

I have a single word that can throw a wrench in your reasoning:

Batman.

No, really. Secretive, manipulative, puzzling... All in there and we could add ruthless, violent, scary, more than a little crazy... All that don't make Batman evil, though. And that is the same opinion I have about Hoid. He is Cosmere's Batman. Kind of.

[Satsuoni]

I have a single word that can throw a wrench in your reasoning:

Batman.

No, really. Secretive, manipulative, puzzling... All in there and we could add ruthless, violent, scary, more than a little crazy... All that don't make Batman evil, though. And that is the same opinion I have about Hoid. He is Cosmere's Batman. Kind of.

Hm.. well, I am not really familiar with Batman, sorry. Haven't gotten around to reading his comics yet. Still, my impression is that (I may me mistaken about this), while few people know who Batman IS, almost the whole city knows what he DOES (fight Joker?), while in the case of Hoid, nobody really knows who he is, and certainly not what he does. Also, he hints and puzzles, but rarely reveals anything, and rarely talks straight. Shifty!

But, your mileage may vary *shrugs*.

[Commander Spoonface]

I have a single word that can throw a wrench in your reasoning:

Batman.

No, really. Secretive, manipulative, puzzling... All in there and we could add ruthless, violent, scary, more than a little crazy... All that don't make Batman evil, though. And that is the same opinion I have about Hoid. He is Cosmere's Batman. Kind of.

Actually, Hoid=Batman would explain a lot. The same principle of escalation might apply as well...

[fiveAM]

Yes, well, this is why I said "subjective". Also, being evil does not stop somebody from being hero, and Hoid is, probably, a hero, or at least protagonist... just evil. And anti-hero (IMO) is a hero that gets things done openly, just disregarding certain moral issues. (Openly to allies of course... some secrets from enemies are OK. Only a few, though). Or maybe I should use terms "deplorable" and "loathsome" instead of evil.

So maybe, until Hoid gets his own book, his designation is a matter of personal preference rather than a formality. In relation to that, I propose a spinoff biography "Ruin: betrayed and destroyed".

Considering Brandon's love for very 'human characters' I agree that it's probably not a simple matter of evil or good with Hoid or anyone for the matter really. I can see Brandon making Hoid to be more and more of an antagonist and "evil" as the Cosmere books continue but then turning it around and revealing that Hoid is the good one and EVERY PROTAGONIST[/b} we've read about are the bad ones. (okay that probably wouldn't be the case but that would totally blow the freakin minds off of everyone =p)

[dhalagirl]

I like the Hoid= Batman postulation. Hoid is very good at walking that fine line between good and evil (which is why we're having this discussion in the first place). It makes his motivations so hard to guess because it could easily go either way

Personally, I've always seen him as a parent of sorts. He's not above lying to a child in order to get them to step out of their comfort zone and try something new. "Eat your vegetables so you can burn pewter" or something like that.

[Cheese Ninja]

I don't think Hoid is actually evil, but his plans might be disastrous for some others. When Sazed fixed the world at the end of HoA, he kinda wiped everything off the face of the planet at the same time. If Hoid is planning something like that on a Cosmere-wide scale, there's no surprised the 17th shard wants to track him down. I think it'll be a bit more subtle than that, but what if it was the complete negation of all Shard-based magics?

Oh wait, that's not subtle at all.

If Hoid takes pieces of all the Shards, using stuff like Lerasium, atium, breaths, and Stormlight, (I think I've seen somewhere that Stormlight isn't the actual magic fuel, so maybe not Stormlight) maybe he can use them as a focus to recreate Adonalsium, and draw off the power of the Shards...

Just now I scrolled up and read Commander Spoonface's post, which said much the same thing. I'd say "great minds think alike" but that always struck me as a rather arrogant phrase. In any case, I think we may be on to something.

[dhalagirl]

I hope we're on to something. Otherwise we'll all feel really silly.

I'm not sure I support the theory that Hoid is trying to recreate Adonalsium. I agree that it's a distinct possibility and that its reformation would do more harm than good since each world's identity, economy and in some cases their political structure have become so closely tied to their shard(s).

[Arcanist Lupus]

I don't think we know enough about Adonalsium to speculate about what Hoid is trying to do.

We don't really know what it was, what life was like before the Shattering, what caused the Shattering, whether the Shattering was a good thing or a bad thing (or something else), how Hoid was involved, or really anything at all.

About the whole Vin thing in HoA, Brandon said "too observant for her own good". This implies to me that:

a) it was her own instincts and observations, not anything that Ruin or Preservation did.

b ) if she had met with Hoid, Hoid would have helped her.

One more thing. I vaguely remember hearing that Brandon said, in regards to the Suvudu Cage Match, that if Hoid had participated, he would have swept the floor with everybody else. (powerwise, of course. He might not have actually won the competition.) What that means, I don't know.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Sir Read-a-Lot

[dhalagirl]

Yeah. Entering Hoid in Suvudu would be like unleashing Chuck Norris.

[Windrunner]

My personal theory is that Hoid is actually more concentrated on the defeat of Odium. He talks about how he may be perpetuating his grudge against Rayse and Bavadin, but that it's important anyway. If you think about it, he was probably on Sel trying to set someone up to take up Aona's shard and Dominion. He was probably on Scadrial to defeat Ruin, who once he destroyed his own world, would probably have no problem making a temporary alliance with Odium to destroy worlds. And as for Nalthis, the only thing I can think of is that Endowment recently came to Nalthis after being chased away from her old world by Odium (as per my other theory) and Hoid was checking up on her to see how she was settling in. I don't know, that last one was kind of weak.