Azarias

I would say that it is pretty feasible that a mistborn could use atium to break part of the plate. From there, if you could get close enough using atium, you could bypass the plate and take atium from them directly. And yes, if this took two seconds, I would agree that they would probably be killed, however, two seconds could turn to almost instant if you flared duraliam at the same time. The mistborn would take the dub.

What if the mistborn used chromium? From the Coppermind: A Leecher can also drain other forms of Investiture. They would be fairly effective at draining a person's Breath or Stormlight.[6] They would also be able to Leech from a Lifeless.[7] A Leecher could prevent a Shardbearer from summoning their blade,[8] and can prevent a weapon using Investiture from working.[2] If they used atium to get close, drained a radiant of their stormlight, and then used pewter, I'd say it would be a pretty easy win for the mistborn. Especially if they used chromium and duralium.

I see what you are saying, but I think I disagree. In the case of destroying Ashyn, we know that was done with a dawnshard, which is one of adonalsium's commands. The shattering was also performed using the dawnshards- commands. What the lord ruler does the well of ascension might not be done with a command, but that was also very poorly and clumsily done, without much control. When adonalsium created the universe, they used commands. And if adonalsium used commands to perform its will, we can assume that shards do too. I also think we have to be careful with our distinctions of intent and command. I do not believe the distinction is whether it is verbal or not. When one reaches the tenth heightening on Nalthis, you can perform non-verbal commands. I think the distinction is that a command involves true understanding and visualization, whereas intent is more about desire and purpose. I think that the reason that a lot of commands are spoken out loud is because such large, all encompassing concepts such as 'Unite' can be difficult to comprehend only in your head. In the same way as when performing a maths problem you might write it down, it being impossible to hold everything in your head at once, verbalization of commands is used to ensure focus and understanding. Dalinar therefore might have an understanding of a powerful command, that allows him to focus his surgebinding in new and different ways.

In this topic I am not going to speculate on the names of the dawnshards, but rather on what a dawnshard is. Obviously, we know that a dawnshard is a Command. But what a command is, and how dawnshards differ from commands given in Warbreaker, for example, is another question. This is my theory. Firstly, four relevant points: 1. Commands can shape investiture, whether it be shaping breaths (in the example of awakenings) or whether it be shaping people's memories and spirit webs (as Vashar reveals that he knows a command that can erase a person’s memories). 2. Commands seem to contain some innate investiture. When Rysn becomes, or takes up, the dawnshard, she seems to experience something akin to a heightening. So, clearly, they must contain, or be made of, investiture. 3. You do not hold a dawnshard, or act as a vessel for it, you become it. In the cosmere, a person's identity is contained in their spirit web, which exists in the Spiritual Realm, and is made of investiture. We also know that when Rysn 'becomes' the dawnshard, her physical appearance does not alter in any way, and largely, her thought process seems to be the same, therefore, when you 'become' a dawnshard, your spirit web must be altered to contain the Command- to contain the dawnshard. 4. For someone to bond to a spren, they must have undergone certain trauma to create a crack in their spirit web for the bond to form in. In other words, their spirit webs, which are networks or patterns of investiture, will not always fit together, and to create the desired effect, each pattern must have gaps, or be of a specific shape, to fit together properly. Here is where it all comes together. I think that dawnshards, or perhaps commands in general, can be viewed like spiritwebs, being patterns of investiture. Though, differently from spiritwebs, I think that commands can be seen as specific wave patterns of investiture that a person has the capability of sending out. If a command is the right shape and pattern, it can 'unlock' certain things, or perhaps attach itself to a person’s or object’s spiritweb (point 4). The command is a key, and spirit webs are locks, and whether you unlock the lock, or just place they key in the lock and leave it there, only certain keys will fit in certain key holes to create the effect that you want. In this way, commands can shape in investiture (point 1), but only specific commands can perform specific functions. In other words, the command ‘grab things’ and ‘untie’ (two examples from Warbreaker) perform different functions, because they are different patterns of investiture, and therefore will be the ‘keys’ for different parts of an objects spirit web, causing it to change in different ways. Commands therefore also must be made of, and therefore contain, some innate investiture (point 2), as they are patterns of investiture, just as spirit webs are. Therefore, when Rysn becomes the dawnshard, her identity changes because her spirit web is being changed to become the pattern of the dawnshard (point 3). So, I have given my theory of what commands are, but how do commands and dawnshards differ. Well, I believe that while normal commands can act as keys, dawnshards can be seen as skeleton keys, having the potential to open far more doors, and enact far more effects, that the average command. Therefore they can be dangerous because, if you have investiture to spare (breaths, stormlight) you can use that investiture to carry the ‘pattern’ of the dawnshard to produce whatever effect you want encompassed under its nature (such as Change). This was long winded and messy, but hopefully understandable. Tell me what you think

"The most powerful forms of Surgebinding transcend traditional mortal understanding. All their greatest applications require Intent and a Command. Demands on a level no human could ever manage alone." This, as I'm sure you all know, is what Nikli said as the dawnshards were introduced to Rysn. As a result of this, and everything else that went on at the end of Dawnshard, many have speculated that Dalinar's use of the word 'Unite' in Oathbringer may have been the use of a dawnshard. And that is a possibility. But what if he is not using a dawnshard. What if 'the most powerful forms of surgebinding' involve integrating commands into them. The surgebinding we have seen so far in Stormlight has mostly been about instinct and intent, however, in magic systems that have the potential to form more varied and specific effects, such as on those on Sel and on Nalthis, the use of Commands, whether aons or speech, combined with some intent, are essential to producing the desired effect. Now, what if the greatest and most powerful forms of surgebinding did not just use intent and instinct, wordless grasps at power, such as the use of lightweaving and lashings, but also employed a command. This is not to say that they have to employ dawnshards, the greatest of commands, but perhaps they employ lower commands, such as those used on Sel and Nalthis. Could this indicate that in the future, the more spiritual side of surgebinding could be unlocked through the understanding of, and speaking of, specific words and phrases? This is a bit out there. And I'm sure someone will come up with a sensible counter argument, but tell me what you think.

As I have said before, I think that 'Live' is possible, but I don't think Unite is. Here is why: while concepts like change, creation, stasis, life, and numerous others can be seen as necessary for the creation of a universe, unity doesn't seem so necessary. It is important to remember that the dawnshards were four commands used to make the cosmere, a universe that, by nature, contains lots of division. When we see Dalinar say 'Unite', he is uniting something Adonalsium deliberately made divided. If the four dawnshards are the four commands that shaped the cosmere, surely unity would be more present in it. To me at least, unity does not seem such a fundamental concept that it would make up one of the four fundamental commands, as Dalinar 'uniting' could very easily be a sub category of 'change', as that is in essence what he is doing, changing things to make them better and more united. Hope that makes sense. For this I'm also gonna say no. I think that in the past, and please correct me if I'm wrong, since I don't have time to find the relevant WoB right now, but hasn't Brandon said previously that the relationship between matter and energy in our universe is akin to the relationship between matter, energy and investiture within the cosmere. Just like you can dissipate energy, or break apart matter, you can 'shatter' investiture. However, and correct me if I'm wrong again, dawnshards are commands, and therefore not made of anything themselves, matter, energy or investiture, and are just a way of shaping the latter. I say this because we have seen the use of commands, though perhaps less significant ones, in Warbreaker, and they themselves are the method in which one shapes breath, and are not made of breath themselves. I would argue the same applies here. I say this hesitantly, however, as when Rysn takes up the dawnshard, she seems to experience something similar to a heightening. Therefore, perhaps the dawnshards, while not made of investiture, is contained within investiture, or preserved within it, and therefore can be shattered. Commands in Warbreaker are sounds, waves through air. Are the dawnshard's commands that are carried through waves in investiture? This is getting really far out there, so I'm going to stop, but tell me what you think.

I totally agree, in that I don't think that Destruction would be a command, purely because destruction is not a necessary aspect of creation, and these four commands were used to shape the universe. Instead I would offer up 'Live'. Here is the timeline that I see of creation: First, Adonalsium uses 'Creation', or a command to 'Exist' or to 'Be', calling matter, energy and investiture into being. Secondly, he uses 'Change', shaping the matter, energy and investiture he has created into different forms. Thirdly, he uses the command 'Live', which would introduce both life and consciousness into the cosmere. Finally he would uses 'Stasis', or the command 'Survive', or 'Remain', so that everything would continue to exist independently of him. Most of these are very similar to what @Argent suggested, however the reason why I reject Destruction and instead offer 'Live', is that while some of the more destructive shards can be explained using the command 'Change', some of the Shards whose intents seem more based on emotion, such as 'Devotion' or 'Odium', or as he describes himself, 'Passion', would fit better into the command 'Live' than other commands offered. When Adonalsium created life and consciousness, this contained the command to love and to hate and every other emotion which humans and other life forms have the capability for. Therefore, I think 'Live' makes sense. By the way, I offered the commands of 'Exist' or 'Be', instead of 'Creation', and 'Survive' or 'Remain' instead of 'Stasis' because, though 'Change' could be interpreted as both a noun and an imperative verb, I think it makes sense for a command to take the form of an imperative, as an imperative verb is all a command is at its very core. EDIT: @Nightweaver I hadn't seen that you had already posted on this thread theorizing that 'Live', or as you suggested, 'Experience', might be a dawnshard. Credit to you. Sorry.

It seems as if there are physical and spiritual aspects to each surge. The most obvious place we see this is in the surge of Adhesion, which we have seen both Kaladin and Dalinar employ in full lashings, but we have also seen Dalinar use it to learn someone's native language- some sort of spiritual adhesion or connection. This could also been seen in the moment you have mentioned- a spiritual transformation, and it has been theorised that both Renarin and Shallan have employed the spiritual side of illumination at different points in the text. I don't think there is a huge amount known about it right now, but I hope that clears something up

You are totally right. Adhesion is the surge of vacuum and pressure. All winds are is the movement of molecules due to vacuum and pressure. I imagine that him deflecting the highstorm was just a raw but crude manipulation of these things. Potentially, we could see full manipulation of the winds to a really technical level in the future- avatar the last airbender style.

We know that Venli and Kaladin must meet at some point (EDIT: we don't but to me at least it seems likely), and this is me speculating about how they will meet. So far in the Rhythm of War preview chapters, we know that Kaladin is struggling with the fourth oath (something that has something to do, I think, with not being able to protect everyone), we know that Dalinar is retiring him from the battlefield, and we know that he is looking for a new path. In Oathbringer, we saw him develop sympathy for the singers, travelling with them, and we see this develop into the relationship he has with Lewshi. Moreover, a general theme of Kaladin as a character is how he should protect, mainly through the eyes of soldier vs healer. Now Venli, we know from the latest chapter that she aims to abandon the war to found a civilization where she and the singers can live in peace. We also now know she serves under Lewshi, who has a connection with Kaladin. We also know that she is talking with a group of spren who might share similar ideals/goals to her. I believe these to be the honor spren, those who refuse to bond to a radient. Perhaps this are the spren who would rather protect through healing rather than through fighting, representing Kaladin's dichotomy. In any case, we also know that Kaladin is in talks with, and negotiating with the honorspren. I believe that either Lewshi will introduce Kaladin and Venli, or, and i think this is more likely, they will meet through the honorspren. I then believe that Kaladin will find his new mission in protecting the singers (as his struggle with the two sides of the war has already been made clear), and this could be especially satisfying as it might help reconcile his viewpoint with his fathers. This might also relate to his fourth oath- abandoning bridge four in some respects to protect others, travelling far away from the war effort. And Brandon has confirmed that the cast will be split up, travelling over Roshar, for the course of this book. In any case, tell me what you think, its very speculative but I thought it was interesting, any responses will tell me if it was actually worth sharing.

I think this is absolutely true, but I also think that they do cancel each other out. These differences in power may allow some shards to retain some future sight, but even then, the shards are essentially gods with thousands of years worth of time to plan and scheme and create these elaborate plans. People in the real world are able to create big plans with lots of moving parts, and their plans can work. Why can't the Shards do the same to each other? Plus you assume everything in the plan went right. Leras's plan A could have been totally different and Ruin could have forced in to plan Z. We only saw the very end of it, it is perfectly possible that Leras's plan was just good enough, and he knew Ruin well enough, that it just worked.

As I was reading speculations on who Navani's critic was in the most recent Rhythm of War chapter, I noticed that too of the most popular theories were that it was either the Sibling or the Sleepless. And it was the combination of those two ideas that lead to this: The sleepless are single beings made up of thousands of hordlings. The Sibling is a superspren, akin to the Nightwatcher and the Stormfather. However, unlike the nightwatcher and the stormfather, the sibling fulfils a unique capacity in that it powers the fabrials at the heart of Urithiru. What makes it different? Well, what if, like the sleepless, the sibling was in fact not a single being, but a collective consciousness made of smaller non-sentient spren, allowing it to be used in fabrials in the same capacity as normal spren, but to greater effect due to its extra power. That way, if it was in fact the Sibling who contacted Navani, it could be because her continuing capture of spren is weakening the sibling bit by bit. This also would explain why the Sibling is in slumber, as, as the population of the world grew, and more fabrials were created and used, it weakened it further and further. Maybe this is also why the Knights Radient were seemly undeveloped in fabrial technology- because they were limited in the number of spren they could use for fear of harming the sibling. Not sure if that makes much sense but tell me what you think

Venli, as a parshendi, could both have extra motivation to agree with the use of fabrials, or disagree with it. Parshendi use their gemhearts to trap spren to achieve different forms, much in the same way that fabrials use them. A parshendi could therefore look at it as perfectly natural, or as a perversion of their individual relationship with spren, or appropriation of their lifestyle. Sorry if the conversation had moved on from this- just thought i'd say it

I think that its clear that part of Odium's intention when getting Moash to kill the Heralds is to prevent them from a Herald from doing just that. Personally, I think that he will succeed in killing of a decent portion of them, and Dalinar will then create a new Oathpact, with some original heralds retaking their place, Shalash and Taln being two, as they have been confirmed to be the focus of two books in the second arc. I think that Kaladin will obviously end up becoming the herald of the windrunners, we might have Dalinar replace Ishar. Shallan could replace Shallash, if, as theorised, Shallash does become a dustbringer, in which case she would be the new herald of the dustbringers. Szeth would replace Nale, Taln remains as Herald of the Stonewards. Perhaps Jasnah and Renarin and Venli would also join. I hope that the edgedancer would be Adolin, purely because our only other named edgedancer is Lift and she's way too young to be tortured for 15 years. In any case, I think there will be a new oathpact, all our favourite characters will go to Braize and get tortured for 15 years, and then the next five book arc can start with another desolation as one of them gives in. The plus side to this though is that these characters then become immortal, possibly have power upgrades, but ultimately are able to stick around for the rest of the cosmere. I kind of dislike this theory mainly because I've assumed that Odium will be our big bad for the whole cosmere, and for someone else to take up that Shard would set Odium back in a major way. Yes, it would eventually have the same intent, though how long in would take for the Shards intent to overwhelm the host's intent is unclear, but I think more that 15 years, and that's all the time we have. Moreover, we know from harmony that being a Shard does not give you an immediate understanding of your abilities and the universe. If the new Odium no longer knows how to shatter shards, and no longer has all his knowledge of the workings of other shards and their hosts, and other things like that, he's going to be put on the back foot against Shards that are already more powerful, such as Harmony, which would ultimately make him a much worse big bad for the whole cosmere arc.

I love the idea of Anguish as a Shard, but in the way I interpret it, it could be reframed as Empathy, although, being in a state of constant anguish because of the constant pain and suffering throughout the cosmere, its predominant feature is its anguish. I do love these, but I think that under my interpretation of Anguish as empathy, mercy would be redundant as surely an empathetic shard would be a merciful one. Justice also seems an odd one because we have a knights radiant order framed around justice, and as the knights radiant are of honour and cultivation (and I think skybreakers lean heavily towards honour), it would be weird to have that much overlap. I love the idea of wisdom and beauty as shards though!