Could someone "hot-swap" hemalurgic spikes?

[+robardin]

Towards the end of The Bands of Mourning, in the area beneath the Sovereign's Temple with the (second) set of false Bands, Wax's uncle "Suit" monologues a bit on what the Set have discovered of hemalurgy:

"The trouble with Hemalurgy is in its limitations," Suit says in The Bands of Mourning. "If you spike yourself too much, you become subject to Harmony's... Interference. ... I am limited to three boons."

I found it interesting to later find the three Hemalurgic "boons" he chose for himself turned out to be F-gold (Bloodmaker), A-steel (Coinshot), and A-chromium (Leecher).

The last one has always struck me as an odd choice. Having a Leecher around in a fight between groups of Allomancers would certainly be very useful, but one could simply be employed a henchman, like the guy who threw the allomantic "grenade" at Wax on the train.

Given that he had personally known Miles Hundredlives before gaining Hemalurgic spikes, you'd think Suit might have chosen to spike himself for A-gold for the Compounding effect, or to pair A-steel with its complementary A-iron to be as effective as a Mistborn might be in manipulating metals, with techniques not seen since the time of the Lord Mistborn: the Shrapnel Cloud, the Flight of Four Horseshoes, and so on.

I could see forgoing gold Compounding since the Set had some way of creating and passing around unkeyed goldminds - likely what he was referring to when he added, "we have discovered how to make someone else be weak, while we gain the benefit." So he wouldn't need to Compound gold to gain free health more or less on demand. But why choose A-chromium? It's like he prepared himself with Leecherhood in anticipation of close-quarters combat with Wax and Friends.

Well, maybe he did. Who said his set of three spikes had to be permanent? In fact, his smug declaration of "Aha! I made myself a Leecher!" in his duel with Wax suggests he did it specfically in preparation for that encounter - that he wouldn't have been able to plan for all that much ahead of time. Like he'd only JUST made himself a Leecher before Wax showed up.

As I understand it, hemalurgic spikes that are removed can be restored, though they lose charge when outside a body, or kept in blood. I'd guess that there's also a maximum loss threshold to them, too, so that after a certain point, it'd be as weak a spike as it would get - maybe granting half or even a quarter the potency of the source Allomancer or Feruchemist when alive, but no worse.

Vin's earring turned out to be a hemalurgic spike for A-copper that made her a super-Seeker, as well as exposing her to Ruin's voice - and she lost and re-inserted that earring a number of times that we saw (and removed it voluntarily on other occasions, too).

Spook was able to remove his pewter spike in The Hero of Ages, and presumably could have either put it back, or gotten a different spike.

Marsh regains his missing Inquisitor eye-spike somewhere along the way after the Catacendre.

So does that mean someone like Suit could theoretically carry a full set of 32 spikes (or as many as they have access to) in a bloody carrying case, and just stick himself in the right places with any three spikes he wanted to, at any time? Sure, he'd hear Harmony talking to him, but I guess he's just ignoring Him all the time, as it is. (Or perhaps Sazed is still enough himself to adhere to the maxim, "If you don't have something nice to say to someone, don't say anything at all," LOL.)

That reminds me, the scene at the mansion where the Brute Feruchemist from the Set shoots Kelesina, then fished at something on Kelesina's body, and shot her again. That wasn't just to take her unkeyed goldmind - maybe it was also her spike for F-gold, so someone else in the Set could make use of it? You wouldn't have to "fish" at someone's body to take off a bracelet, but you would to dig out a spike from her side.

Edited April 17, 2018 by robardin

[Wandering Investor]

It varies depending on the spike placement and changes. So long as taking the spike out doesn't kill you, I think its safe to say you can swap them. They'll lose charge while outside the body, so it wouldn't be the best idea, but definitely doable as shown by Vin. When it comes to inquisitors though, some spikes will cause death when removed. The same likely goes for the Koloss since they experience so much physical change. In the case of the set, they very likely can interchange spikes without too much harm. 

[Weltall]

Paalm isn't a perfect example since kandra aren't human and thus don't function entirely the same (their bind points are a lot more flexible for one thing) but she does have multiple spikes and as we saw her using multiple powers, she was swapping between them depending on what she needed at a given time.

Add to that, with the exception of hemalurgic constructs who are heavily dependant on their spikes (though for the Inquisitors it's only both eye spikes or the lynchpin spike, all others are fair game) there's no reason to think that you can't 'hot swap' spikes as long as doing so wouldn't cause secondary complications (having a hole in your chest for example) and as long as you don't mind the potential loss of charge if you don't swap them very quickly. You could also argue that Vin and Wax are essentially 'hot-swapping' every time they put their earrings on and removing them.

This idea reminds me a lot of the various neural implants you see in science fiction and especially cyberpunk. I wonder if we'll see 'hemalurgic microsofts' as it were, once we get to Era 3 or 4, or especially that idea Brandon has mulled of doing a 'Mistborn Cyberpunk' story.

[marles]

I wouldn't be surprised if we see some hot-swapping of spikes. As @Weltall we see it with Paalm already, but again she isn't human. But for members of the set that are using F-Gold spikes or unsealed metal minds I would assume they could safely swap one of their other spikes. They probably won't be carrying around a bloody bag with 20+ spikes in it but I could see them having one or two additional spikes available for different circumstances.

[Xtafa]

On 4/18/2018 at 6:15 AM, marles said:

I wouldn't be surprised if we see some hot-swapping of spikes. As @Weltall we see it with Paalm already, but again she isn't human. But for members of the set that are using F-Gold spikes or unsealed metal minds I would assume they could safely swap one of their other spikes. They probably won't be carrying around a bloody bag with 20+ spikes in it but I could see them having one or two additional spikes available for different circumstances.

You never know, we have allomantic vials, they could have some vials with preserved blood and a spike inside  

[The Deity]

The removal and addition of the spikes may depend primarily on where the are. The lynchpin spike in an Inquisitor's back is a primary example, it bonds the spikes together and if it were to be removed it would have to be removed either very, very fast or not at all since it is such a crucial piece to the whole morphed Spirit Web of an Inquisitor. Keep in mind that a single H-spike alters the Spirit Web of that person in a profound way, they don't remain fully human. Possibly 'hot-swapping' those spikes might have serious complication for the person and their Spirit Web, dependent on where the spike is placed.

 

[marles]

13 hours ago, Xtafa said:

You never know, we have allomantic vials, they could have some vials with preserved blood and a spike inside  

This is true, for some reason I always think of spikes as being decently large to the point where it would be cumbersome to carry around so many. But I know they don't have to be massive things, always have to remind myself of that fact.

[+robardin]

On 4/18/2018 at 10:14 PM, Xtafa said:

You never know, we have allomantic vials, they could have some vials with preserved blood and a spike inside  

Yes, and the "spikes" don't need to be railroad spike sized, just the size of a sewing needle. (Or an earring pin!)

The real problem is killing someone with a sewing needle or earring. I never really thought about exactly how horrible it was for Vin's mother to kill her Seeker baby sister with an earring pin... I guess the spike just has to be the "coup de grace". (Elsewhere there's a WoB that you can actually "spike out" the power from a Metalborn without killing them, too, though I can't imagine how that's achieved - maybe with Intent, as Ruin had no reason to want to NOT kill his chosen hemalurgic "donors", quite the opposite.)

[Wandering Investor]

4 hours ago, robardin said:

Yes, and the "spikes" don't need to be railroad spike sized, just the size of a sewing needle. (Or an earring pin!)

The real problem is killing someone with a sewing needle or earring. I never really thought about exactly how horrible it was for Vin's mother to kill her Seeker baby sister with an earring pin... I guess the spike just has to be the "coup de grace". (Elsewhere there's a WoB that you can actually "spike out" the power from a Metalborn without killing them, too, though I can't imagine how that's achieved - maybe with Intent, as Ruin had no reason to want to NOT kill his chosen hemalurgic "donors", quite the opposite.)

The size of the metal can affect how large a charge it can carry. 

[Yata]

12 hours ago, Wandering Investor said:

The size of the metal can affect how large a charge it can carry. 

Hemalurgy is a low Investiture magic system.

The Spike's size matter but probably a small Spike is as good as a big One for most of the purposes.

Regard the possibility of harming enough someone with a Tiny Spike...It's really possible and the victim will still probably die for Spiritual shock

[The Deity]

On April 20, 2018 at 6:20 AM, robardin said:

(Elsewhere there's a WoB that you can actually "spike out" the power from a Metalborn without killing them, too, though I can't imagine how that's achieved

You could actually do this if the person getting spiked had F-gold. When the spike pierces the heart it can go through and the gold will heal the heart, and since gold heals to the way that the user perceives themselves it will heal them quick enough that the Spirit Web won't completely be changed by the spiking. BoM spoiler:

Spoiler

At the very ending where we see Inquisitor Kelsier with the arm scrapes.

 

[The One Who Connects]

3 minutes ago, The Deity said:

You could actually do this if the person getting spiked had F-gold.

While technically true, that's not what Robardin's statement was getting at.

Quote

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)
One does not have to kill someone with Hemalurgy to charge a spike, but it rips off a large part of the soul. The person would not be the same.

---

The_Vikachu
I remember reading you answer earlier that a person being used to charge a hemalurgic spike does not necessarily have to die. Would that victim be similar to a Drab from Warbreaker?

Brandon Sanderson
Well, making a spike rips off a piece of someone's soul. So...yeah. I'd need to see my exact quote from before, but let's say it's not going to leave a person in good shape.

Brandon talks about a survivor living without that lost section o f soul, which means no healing. We don't have any idea how to do this, and per Brandon, neither does anyone else.

[The Deity]

@The One Who Connects Thanks for the clarification, but couldn't the F-gold heal the person according to their Spirit Web (or would that remain changed instantly after they were spiked)?

[The One Who Connects]

Just now, The Deity said:

but couldn't the F-gold heal the person according to their Spirit Web (or would that remain changed instantly after they were spiked)?

What exactly are you trying to say here?

---

Miles could restore spiked out F-Gold by burning a Goldmind, or vice versa by tapping , so healing is definitely able to restore the lost section of Spiritweb.

Quote

Kurkistan
If you spiked out Miles' Feruchemical gold, would he be able to burn his Allomantic reserves [read: Feruchemical reserves using Allomancy] and heal it back?

Brandon Sanderson
If you spiked out his ability to heal gold and somehow left him alive? Still has Allomancy...

Kurkistan
And he’s like in the middle of burning a goldmind.

Brandon Sanderson
Yes, that would still work. It'd still have a Spiritual Connection to him.

---

Kurkistan
Could Miles heal back his Allomancy if it was spiked out of him? I'd thought maybe he could just do some super-tapping from his existing Health in his goldminds (since he'd still have his Feruchemy)...

Brandon Sanderson
Using Feruchemy to heal the removed portion of soul. That's actually plausible, not so different from healing other kinds of soul-wounds. If he survived, then yes, this actually might work.