CrazyRioter Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 atheistcanuck @BrandSanderson The Almighty's original name was Tanavast, yes/no? in reply to @atheistcanuck Brandon Sanderson @BrandSanderson Brandon Sanderson @atheistcanuck Yes and no. The concept of the "Almighty" in Roshar has a lot of meanings, many of them wrong. atheistcanuck @BrandSanderson But the person who held the Shard Honor was originally named Tanavast? BrandSanderson Brandon Sanderson @atheistcanuck Yes. You wiggled it out of me. That was the name of the original holder of the Shard Honor So, discuss, I guess. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silus - Shard of Flame Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 YES! That simplifies things SO MUCH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 On the plus side, we have more information. We have yet another Shardholder name. On the other side... "That was the name of the original holder of the Shard Honor". This phrasing is very careful. He's getting way too good at RAFOing. I think the most likely interpretation for that "original holder" is: Tanavast did hold that Shard, but now he's dead, and obviously doesn't hold the Shard anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Maybe Jezerieh took it up. Maybe that's who Kaladin sees when he "rides the storm." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorondir Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Yes i was right, I strongly belived that Tanavast was the name of Honors sharholder after we learned tha The Almighty was Honor. Especially due to the sentence by the voice in the storm Child of Tanavast. Child of Honor. Child of the one long since departed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesfan42 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Yes i was right, I strongly belived that Tanavast was the name of Honors sharholder after we learned tha The Almighty was Honor. Especially due to the sentence by the voice in the storm Child of Tanavast. Child of Honor. Child of the one long since departed I think Chaos is right. I mean look at your own quote, Child of the one long since departed. It's starting to look like the info we just got from Brandon may not be as significant as we thought it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 It's not immensely significant, but it's important to have information be fact, not theory. Especially in Stormlight Archive where a lot of names can float around. I'm now more concerned with who that voice in the storm is. If my theory on Shards Can't Remember Their Names, then it's not a Shard. Looks like Jezrien is a good candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter Posted March 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Jezrien would seem to the most likely. Apparently he feels guilty for walking away and is trying to help, indirectly. And cryptically. Seriously, he didn't say much of anything that Kaladin was capable of understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinachu Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 I would suggest that there are two ways to read Brandon's carefully guarded comment that the original holder of the shard Honor was Tanavast. It's possible that some one else after Tanavast held Honour, indeed it is likely because we are told that Kaladin is the child of one long since departed, but Dalinar's vision of the Almighty and indeed the nature of the visions suggest that it is only recently that the Almighty has been kileed. The other way is of course the dominant thought on this forum, which is Almighty held Honor until he died. Either nobody is holding Honor, or in someway Jezrien has taken up some of its power. Following confirmation that Kaladin is a child of Tanavast, does that mean that Kaladin is somehow descended from the former holder of the shard? That would make a great deal of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordofsoup Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Shardholders can have children? Is that true, or just unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 My gut instinct is no. I mean, they don't really have physical forms anymore; their body is vaporized, until they die. It'd be pretty hard to make babies. I think it means more of a magical thing. Technically any of their creation could be considered children, not excluding magic. I think it refers to Kaladin's Windrunner nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOM1else Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 My gut instinct is no. I mean, they don't really have physical forms anymore; their body is vaporized, until they die. It'd be pretty hard to make babies. I think it means more of a magical thing. Technically any of their creation could be considered children, not excluding magic. I think it refers to Kaladin's Windrunner nature. Do we know for sure that they don't have bodies anymore? I know Vin vanishes when she becomes preservation but Shardblades vanish when they're not being used but they still exist. I always assumed that Leras only showed up as the mist-spirit because he was to focused on keeping ruin imprisoned to take a complete form, if he wasn't using all of that energy stopping ruin then I think he could have taken a physical form but just wouldn't be able to effect anything that wasn't in his presence, that's why he became the mists, his influence is stronger wherever they are because they give him an omnipresence. but yeah I don't think shard holders can have kids, it's probably refering to the fact that Tanavest created humanity on Roshar the same way as Leras did on Scadrial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 Okay, let me rephrase. They no longer use their bodies But you're exactly right, they obviously still exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinachu Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 Okay, let me rephrase. They no longer use their bodies But you're exactly right, they obviously still exist. So what' Im confused about is the repetition. Child of Tanavast, Child of Honor. It's pretty clearly referring to two different entities. Also we really have no explanation for Kaladin's superhuman fighting skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 So what' Im confused about is the repetition. Child of Tanavast, Child of Honor. It's pretty clearly referring to two different entities. Also we really have no explanation for Kaladin's superhuman fighting skills. Well, they are distinct entities. Tanavast is the Shardholder. He is the mind which controls the Shard's power. The consciousness. Honor is the force itself, separate from the mind. Of course, Tanavast's mind eventually gets molded to the Shard's Intent, as is normal. But they are distinct entities, in a manner of speaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 I guess the best analogy I can come up with is the Presidency. Tanavast was cbosen to be "Honor", and so he slowly become more and more honorable, just like a president (hopefully) over time grows more and more presidential. So in a way, The President and Obama are referring to the same person. But they are two different things. Or at least that made sense in my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe ST Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 And yes, their bodies still exist fully, as we see Leras, Ati and Vin's bodies appearing when they 'die'. I guess their bodies just cannot survive possession, or their minds are so 'expanded' that to re-enter a body restricts them so much as to be near-impossible. I guess Leras's appearing as the mist spirit was easier for him than body-habitation, since he was just moulding mist into an appearance, rather than occupying a body. Though they may be able to 'posses' puppet-like? Maybe that would've taken more strength than he was able to muster. But why, then, would Vin would not have done similar? Would she have 'known' she couldn't survive it, or something? Maybe their structural imprint/template gets stored in their vast memories, and when they perish it is pushed out into the world again? I wonder what happened to the other shard-holder's bodies >.> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zas678 Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 Here's what he have on Vin's shardhood: HoA Q&A: When Vin burns the mists, however, she'd doing just that--using the essence of Preservation, the Shard of Adonalsium itself--to fuel Allomancy. Doing this, however, rips 'troughs' through her body. It's like forcing far too much pressure through a very small, fragile hose. That much power eventually vaporizes the corporeal host, which is acting as the block and forcing the power into a single type of conduit (Allomancy) and frees it to be more expansive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Feboris Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 I think that Child of Tanavast. Child of Honor. could still refer to only one thing and it does not need to imply either natural or magical creation. Indeed I think it speaks more to the Kaladin's character than to his nature, it is who he has chosen to become rather than where he came from that made him the way he is. This seems to follow with Syl picking him as he fought in the battlefield as a Squad Leader, she picked someone of character and did not just choose randomly, although her choice may have been influenced as she does not seem to have a lot of human qualities when she first starts following Kaladin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silus - Shard of Flame Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 I doubt that using the two phrases (Child of Tanavast, Child of Honor) actually means two different things. You've probably heard someone refer to someone or something with two descriptive phrases one right after the other. Something like, I don't know, "Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyman Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 "Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears!" Only if you promise to give them back to me after you're done with them. OK, OK, that's bad. It's still what it makes me think of. Back on topic, it seems that the "Child of Tanavast, Child of Honor" thing is very likely deliberate repetition. It's a common and very old technique (try reading the Book of Isaiah some time; the Bible is just larded with this kind of thing), and lends strength and emphasis to the point the speaker is trying to make. On the other hand, it also gains strength by referring to slightly different things, odd as it sounds. The Shardholder's name and the Shards' name would be just about perfect usage in this context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silus - Shard of Flame Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 So can we rule out the face in the storm as being Honor, then? I don't know enough about how third person vs first person tenses work both on Roshar and on a Shard scale to judge whether or not the FitS calling Kaladin a Child of Honor rules him out as actually being Honor. It really is an odd situation from all angles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyman Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 So can we rule out the face in the storm as being Honor, then? I don't know enough about how third person vs first person tenses work both on Roshar and on a Shard scale to judge whether or not the FitS calling Kaladin a Child of Honor rules him out as actually being Honor. It really is an odd situation from all angles. Given that Honor is dead, I suspect tFitS is not Honor. Who is it? Not a clue. It's probably way too early to even guess . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silus - Shard of Flame Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 The only way that tFitS could be Honor is if someone has taken up Honor in Tanavast's place. Some people say that Jezrien has done this, but I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter Posted June 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 (edited) there's always the "it's a recording, left by Honor for anybody 'stormsurfing'" theory. It's not totally clear it was really an "interactive" communication. Mind, I'm inclined to believe it was Jez, but there's no way to be sure. Edited June 22, 2011 by CrazyRioter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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