20 replies to this topic

[Tien]

Ok so when i read TWOK i just assumed that the Radiants just had some knowledge unknown to Szeth or Kaladin of how to use storm light, this is how they could "Fly". However thinking about it, could it just be reducing the earths' pull on you to negative, (so it pushes you away) then lashing yourself to a distant object? so instead of "flying" it is more like falling... with style...



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Edited by Tien, 03 April 2012 - 04:46 PM.

[Lantern13]

They'd just lash their whole selves in whatever direction they want to go (so almost basically what you're saying, just minus a step). And then to slow down they'd lash part of their selves behind them.

[Tien]

So can you lash yourself to air? that doesn't seem likely...
The Radiants would need to Lash themselves to some object, correct?

[Tulir]

They Lashed themselves upward, Szeth mentions this when he sends a piece of a roof away from the city he was at.

[Windrunner]

You can lash things to the sky, Szeth does it with a stone block. I think the key with Lashing is that it isn't really to an object but a direction. Szeth says he lashed himself to the wall, but what it really means is that he Lashed himself in the direction of the wall. Windrunners twist the spiritual gravitational bond, changing where down is. They don't have to have an object to do it towards.

[Tien]

You are right Tulir (and windrunner), I looked it up. on page 448 Szeth says that he lashes the rock to the "sky".

Edited by Tien, 03 April 2012 - 04:36 PM.

[master]

I wonder if name windrunner comes from flying in highstorms. I'm guessing it would be difficult to carry enough stormlight for long journeys, but if they could absorb stormlight directly froms storms they wouldnt need to hold a lot stormlight.

[Voidus]

Actually I seem to recall that when Szeth lashed the stone to the sky he specifically mentioned that it was more difficult than simply lashing it to an object.

[Joe ST]

Actually I seem to recall that when Szeth lashed the stone to the sky he specifically mentioned that it was more difficult than simply lashing it to an object.

not just because of the distance of the sky?

[Voidus]

not just because of the distance of the sky?

Well that's what I'm thinking it is, Szeth perceives the sky to be an object which he can lash something to, that combined with the distance makes it harder to make a precise lashing. If all he was doing when he was lashing himself to the wall was lashing in that direction then there would be no reason that lashing in the direction of the sky would be any different.

[Odium's_Shard]

Obviously, the difficulty with a sky Lashing is that the Stormlight contained within the object, set to perform 'Gravity', will eventually run out, and that stone will falls somewhere. Maybe on top of people. It isn't an accurate science, whereas Szeth simply Lashing himself to 'wall' has a far more predictable result.

[Telcontar]

Also, assuming that Roshar is a round world, the sky is pretty much everywhere (and not just above). It's hard to Lash something to something different that's everywhere, I'd say.

Flying. I would say that the flying ability is the jumping we see in Dalinar's first vision. To normal people that looks like flying.
I see Stormriding/Stormsurfing/Windrunning as Lashing half your weight up, making yourself weightless, then flying with the wind during Highstorms. Mabye using your Pressure-Surge to not get beaten up. Which would make the ability as something "on their own".

[Sweetness]

Szeth Lashes things to a point in the sky. It's slightly different from Lashing something to the sky itself. I agree that it's a directional thing.

Thinking about it, "flying" might just be Lashing oneself to a point that's only a few degrees above the ground. If it's done right, that could make one fall parallel to the ground. And then it's just a matter of orienting your body to "fall" headfirst.

Edited by Sweetness, 04 April 2012 - 12:13 PM.

[Lantern13]

He reached down with his free hand and infused the stone circle with Light, Lashing it toward the northwest section of the sky. Lashing something to a distant point like that was possible, but imprecise. It was like trying to shoot an arrow a great distance.

So to fly he'd lash his whole self towards whatever direction he wanted to go then when he got closer he'd make adjustments (like how one would fly a plane without having a compass).

I have a feeling that Szeth finds it easier to think "Lash to that wall" instead of "Lash in the direction of that wall". "That wall" really has nothing to do with his lashings, since he'd have to be touching "that wall" for "that wall" to have an effect on his lashings.

[Voidus]

But that quote does kind of prove the point that he lashes things to specific points and not a direction, maybe it's just a personal thing and he needs it for a frame of reference but I think it more likely that he is basically just moving their spiritual connection with the earth to a different object that seems to make more sense given that a direction doesn't have a spiritual aspect (so far as I know) but objects do.

[ReaderAt2046]

Szeth does say that "Lashing something to a distant point like that was possible but imprecise, like trying to shoot an arrow a great distance." (my emphasis) So it might just be a matter of accuracy and range.

[hoser]

I wonder if name windrunner comes from flying in highstorms. I'm guessing it would be difficult to carry enough stormlight for long journeys, but if they could absorb stormlight directly froms storms they wouldnt need to hold a lot stormlight.

I like the thought of recharging with a ride in the highstorm.

I do wonder about the limits on stormlight storage. As a level 1 Radiant Kaladin uses stormlight an order of magnitude more effectively than Szeth. At level 2 (after the second oath), he is even more efficient.
Szeth makes reference to Voidbringers holding stormlight perfectly. I wonder whether windrunners who have taken the fifth oath can do nearly as well.
The armor is full of charged gems on the inside, where the armor wouldn't interfere with the wearer's use. I'm guessing that windrunners can use the armor as battery and actually travel great distances. In the Midnight Essence vision, the knights seem to brighten and dim at will. I think that it's due to depositing and withdrawing stormlight to/from the armor.

In the battle scenes, Szeth essentially flies around at will by lashing himself upward various fractions, so I think we already know how it's done. The opening scene with Gavilar and the one with the Veden king are particularly instructive, as I recall.

[Tien]

I just think it is funny how you are all taking this post too far, It really was just an excuse to use a Toy Story Reference...



(not really, i actually was curious.)

Edited by Tien, 09 May 2012 - 07:36 AM.

[Odium's_Shard]

Get used to it! Its all I seem to be able to do on these forums!

We always take the discussions here to infinity and beyond...

[Cheese Ninja]

I like the thought of recharging with a ride in the highstorm.

I do wonder about the limits on stormlight storage. As a level 1 Radiant Kaladin uses stormlight an order of magnitude more effectively than Szeth. At level 2 (after the second oath), he is even more efficient.
Szeth makes reference to Voidbringers holding stormlight perfectly. I wonder whether windrunners who have taken the fifth oath can do nearly as well.
The armor is full of charged gems on the inside, where the armor wouldn't interfere with the wearer's use. I'm guessing that windrunners can use the armor as battery and actually travel great distances. In the Midnight Essence vision, the knights seem to brighten and dim at will. I think that it's due to depositing and withdrawing stormlight to/from the armor.

In the battle scenes, Szeth essentially flies around at will by lashing himself upward various fractions, so I think we already know how it's done. The opening scene with Gavilar and the one with the Veden king are particularly instructive, as I recall.

I feel like we never got a very good feel for Szeth's stormlight efficency vs. Kaladin's but I still think you're right. Kaladin does hold it for a very long time (15-20 minutes?) when he climbs up the chasm to tie the breastplate to the bridge, and that's even while expending on the rocks to climb and using up the rest when he jumps down at the end.

Kaladin relaxed. He was still steaming light, and—save for the call to Lopen—he’d been holding his breath for a good quarter hour. That could be handy, he thought, though his lungs were starting to burn, so he started to breathe normally. The Light didn’t leave him altogether, though it escaped faster.

On the other hand, Szeth always is operating with a glut of infused spheres, and says a human can only hold Stormlight for a few minutes.

Holding his breath, he clung to the Stormlight. He could still feel it leaking out. Stormlight could be held for only a short time, a few minutes at most. It leaked away, the human body too porous a container. He had heard that the Voidbringers could hold it in perfectly. But, then, did they even exist? His punishment declared that they didn’t. His honor demanded that they did.

Which obviously means Kaladin is a Voidbringer...
Hmm, I was joking, but there's a certain odd appeal to that now that I've typed it down.