Moogle Posted May 23, 2014 Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 (edited) One thing that's interesting and shows up with almost everything Surgebind-y on Roshar is frost. Fighting soldiers became a blur to Dalinar's right. He leaned low in the saddle, wind hissing as it blew over his Shardplate. He held a hand out and summoned Oathbringer. It dropped into his hand, steaming and frosted, as he turned Gallant around the western tip of the battlefield. Kaladin's hand felt warm. He stopped in the chasm, closing his eyes. You couldn't feel any heat from a sphere, usually, but the one in his hand seemed warm. And then, feeling completely natural about it, Kaladin breathed in deeply. The sphere grew cold and a wave of heat shot up his arm.He opened his eyes. The sphere in his hand was dun and his fingers were crispy with frost. Light rose from him like smoke from a fire, white, pure.He infused the stone with Stormlight, frost crystallizing on his arm. He wasn?t sure how he did it, but it felt natural, like pouring liquid into a cup. It seems to fit in the general pattern (Elantris excluded) of all magic needing a fuel to go with its Investiture. In Awakening, you drain color to Awaken something. In Surgebinding, you drain heat to Surgebind. Interestingly, it's also involved in the summoning of Shardblades. I wonder why that is? Anyone have thoughts to add to the appearance of frost? Edited May 23, 2014 by Moogle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksiel Posted May 23, 2014 Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 If you think of spren as pieces of the surges, it makes sense for frost to appear when summoning a Blade like when surgebinding - in a way you are using a surge both times. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrono Posted May 23, 2014 Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 It seems to fit in the general pattern (Elantris excluded) of all magic needing a fuel to go with its Investiture. In Awakening, you drain color to Awaken something. In Surgebinding, you drain heat to Surgebind. To me, it seems that Stormlight is the fuel and body heat is the catalyst. Similar to Warbreaker, where the fuel is Breath, but the catalyst is color (a voice just directs the Breath, and surgebinders seem to do that mentally, so there is no vocal component). However, I guess that it really depends on what you define "fuel" as being. To me, fuel is what is consumed and directly supplies the magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurkistan Posted May 23, 2014 Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 This (tragically derailed *whistles innocent*) thread touches on some of the same questions. @Chrono I don't think you're on the right to track to say that body heat is consumed. Frost forms on Szeth's clothes, but there's no indication that his core temperature drops more than is appropriate for someone who just had a bunch of iced dropped on him. Also, Breath is not consumed by Awakening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moogle Posted May 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 @Chrono I don't think you're on the right to track to say that body heat is consumed. Frost forms on Szeth's clothes, but there's no indication that his core temperature drops more than is appropriate for someone who just had a bunch of iced dropped on him. Given that we know Stormlight heals like Feruchemical gold, I feel it's reasonable that Szeth wouldn't feel the cold. His body could be constantly reverting back to a reasonable temperature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifth of Daybreak Posted May 23, 2014 Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 The way I've rationalized it is similar to gas expanding from a container causing the same effect. Brandon describes the stormlight repeatedly as almost expanding the surgebinder, and afterward they feel deflated. So, with this, I've been assuming that its related to the expansion of energy leaving the body. The energy was compressed into a container-the surgebinder-and then was released-manipulating the surgest. The resulting expansion of the energy from the surgebinder into the surrounding environment would have a chilling effect on the area around where the energy was dissipating from, causing frost to form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurkistan Posted May 23, 2014 Report Share Posted May 23, 2014 @Moogle Let's continue this discussion in your other thread, so that it doesn't get split up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seloun Posted May 24, 2014 Report Share Posted May 24, 2014 Isn't the frost effect so far exclusive to Kaladin/Szeth and (depending on the interpretation) summoning Shardblades? I don't think there's any indication of it whenever Shallan is using Stormlight (is there?) or in the Lift section. Maybe it's dependent on the Order or something regarding the Honor-Cultivation axis? Alternatively we may just not have had any appropriate occasions from anyone besides Kaladin or Szeth using tons of Stormlight, though it looks like fairly minor applications cause the frost effect for Kaladin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Star Posted May 24, 2014 Report Share Posted May 24, 2014 The Frost? That's just because of how cool Kaladin is When shardblades are summoned, they're coated with a layer of mist and condensation, and Shardplate mists together. Probably related to the frost. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifth of Daybreak Posted May 24, 2014 Report Share Posted May 24, 2014 The Frost? That's just because of how cool Kaladin is Upvote for the pun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrono Posted May 24, 2014 Report Share Posted May 24, 2014 Also, Breath is not consumed by Awakening. It isn't, but Breath is what makes Awakening actually possible. You can retrieve the Breaths after use, but without it nothing would actually come to life. That's why I see the Breath as fuel for Awakening. Even though the color is consumed, it's not what fuels the Awakened creature. But I can see why you posted that. After all, I did say that fuel was consumed in my definition of fuel. Sigh. As for the body heat issue, what Moogle said could be a possibility. Or the frost could be a by-product of Stormlight consumption. With only small amounts of Stormlight, there's little to no frost. But when Kaladin glows it up? Gigantic amounts, enough to create the Windrunner's sigil. Maybe the process of consuming Stormlight creates the frost, similar to how a fire leaves behind ashes. Now, why it can form into a specific symbol, I have no idea. Address and rip apart as needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurkistan Posted May 24, 2014 Report Share Posted May 24, 2014 (edited) It isn't, but Breath is what makes Awakening actually possible. You can retrieve the Breaths after use, but without it nothing would actually come to life. That's why I see the Breath as fuel for Awakening. Even though the color is consumed, it's not what fuels the Awakened creature. But I can see why you posted that. After all, I did say that fuel was consumed in my definition of fuel. Sigh. Ah, it seems I misinterpreted you, then. That's also how I interpret Breath as working. As for the body heat issue, what Moogle said could be a possibility. Or the frost could be a by-product of Stormlight consumption. With only small amounts of Stormlight, there's little to no frost. But when Kaladin glows it up? Gigantic amounts, enough to create the Windrunner's sigil. Maybe the process of consuming Stormlight creates the frost, similar to how a fire leaves behind ashes. Now, why it can form into a specific symbol, I have no idea. Address and rip apart as needed. This quote could be of use in discussion the relationship between magic systems and symbols. Source: Q: In all of your books—except for Warbreaker—there's always a very big symbology to the types of magic systems: like with AonDor with the Aons or Allomancy. Is that intentional, is it something you had in your head before you get started, or afterwards? Brandon's understanding of the Q: Is the symbolism, the symbology, the actual symbols in the books, important? The magic systems, a lot of these have these- Is this something that I did intentionally? A: Yes it is. When I built the cosmere, I built the underlying rules of magic that I would use in all the books to sort of give a cohesion and- not every one of these books it's going to be very obvious—there will be different takes on them—but for a lot of them they're sharing these attributes, and you can notice similarities between them. Because when I eventually do cosmere-centric books, I want, you know, Allomancy and AonDor to share things in common so it doesn't feel like everything in the kitchen sink is thrown into a book: that there are underlying reasons and rules and things like that. Edited May 24, 2014 by Kurkistan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrono Posted May 25, 2014 Report Share Posted May 25, 2014 Cool! Thanks, Kurk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted May 27, 2014 Report Share Posted May 27, 2014 I was always under the same impression as Seloun. Windrunner's essence is zephyr. As well as one of their surges literally deal with atmospheric pressure. Szeth and Kal both used abilities of the windrunner's. Maybe it is just how each order manifests? For instance the spren themselves manifest differently (Syl as a ribbon, Pattern flowing seemingly "under" everything, Ivory like a shadow, and Windle like a vine), so why not when stormlight is absorbed/used? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts