SmurfAquamarineBodies Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Is Talenel'Elin's madness caused by post traumatic stress? If it is, is this normal for the haralds? Do they spend a little time at the start of each desolation mad? If it's not normal, how long is he going to be like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesomeness Summoned Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 I get the feeling his state of madness is extreme compared to normal. There used to only be centuries between desolations in which the heralds had to endure damnation. There were a couple millennia since the last one. Taln had to endure far longer time being tortured so has gone a little insane as a result. Granted, it doesn't seem like 100 or 1000 years of torture would make much difference (you'd go wonkers either way) but I have a feeling the heralds didn't come back like Taln has with the previous desolations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Hoodie Mistborn Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 I get the feeling his state of madness is extreme compared to normal. There used to only be centuries between desolations in which the heralds had to endure damnation. There were a couple millennia since the last one. Taln had to endure far longer time being tortured so has gone a little insane as a result. Granted, it doesn't seem like 100 or 1000 years of torture would make much difference (you'd go wonkers either way) but I have a feeling the heralds didn't come back like Taln has with the previous desolations. Big difference between 100 years and 4500 though i'd think which is the length since the Last Desolation. I'd say this is extreme and not something seen in the previous returns. We don't' know the time between desolations either, could have been 100 or 900 years between, probably much close to a couple/few hundred though. Taln's comments about teaching them about bronze since they don't have time for steel is interesting too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesomeness Summoned Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Taln's comments about teaching them about bronze since they don't have time for steel is interesting too. Before the advent of the radiants, the desolations usually took humanity back to the stone age and the few centuries between was not long enough to progress very far technology wise so the heralds would have to teach various levels of metallurgy when they returned. It seems he is currently just reciting rote instructions he had repeated countless times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmurfAquamarineBodies Posted March 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 I get the feeling his state of madness is extreme compared to normal. Are you sure? Because in his madness he sits there and tells them what's up, and what needs to be done to fix it. Over and over again. imagine if ten people appeared out of no-where and started saying that, especially if they all had swords that could cut through anything. I think that would be pretty effective at getting people to listen and then when they snapped out of it they would have peoples attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Hoodie Mistborn Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Are you sure? Because in his madness he sits there and tells them what's up, and what needs to be done to fix it. Over and over again. imagine if ten people appeared out of no-where and started saying that, especially if they all had swords that could cut through anything. I think that would be pretty effective at getting people to listen and then when they snapped out of it they would have peoples attention. I don't feel it would be effective at all really. Just like Dalinar who locks Taln up because he doesnt' know what to do with him, it's really just wasting time that Taln should be working helping prepare for the Desolations and teach people about the Radiant ideals. Humans have the opposite problem than they used to, technology is very advance, but the Ideals of the Radiants are lost and honor with them so humans are much more divided. As to tech level... the building technology seemed to be beyond the Bronze age when Nohadon was king from that glimpse. I think the tech level varied with how bad the desolation was previously... Stone age humans wouldn't be reading Nohadon's book either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junior Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) I get the feeling his state of madness is extreme compared to normal. There used to only be centuries between desolations in which the heralds had to endure damnation. There were a couple millennia since the last one. Taln had to endure far longer time being tortured so has gone a little insane as a result. Granted, it doesn't seem like 100 or 1000 years of torture would make much difference (you'd go wonkers either way) but I have a feeling the heralds didn't come back like Taln has with the previous desolations. There are a few different possibilities. 1.) The difference in time between desolations would mean a longer torment, which might have contributed to the madness. 2.) It's possible that since he's now the only Herald still following his job description, the torment that would have been split between ten individuals is now focused exclusively on one. This might also have contributed to the madness. 3.) And finally, it's possible that Taln's mind broke when he realized that he was the only one of the nine still adhering to the Oath Pact. Keep in mind that Taln and his companions presumably had a certain degree of trust between the ten of them (I can't see them agreeing to the thing otherwise)... and his nine companions just sold him out. Personally, I'm leaning toward the last of the three. In particular, his repeated insistance that his comrades will help out seems as if it might be Taln attempting to convince himself that all is still well, and that his "companions" haven't abandoned him. And on the topic of Taln, another possibility has crossed my mind. Taln is now broken. I think we can all agree with that. And spren apparently like bonding with broken people... Edited March 7, 2014 by junior 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Hoodie Mistborn Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 There is the Epigraph from tWoK which says "The burdens of nine become mine. Why must I carry the madness of them all? Oh, Almighty, release me.” Sanderson, Brandon (2010-08-31). The Way of Kings (Stormlight Archive, The) (p. 749). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. (Emphasis mine) I'm thinking it is mostly this/#2 of your points with a sprinkling of #3 for sure. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Goodness gracious, did you really just academically cite a part of The Way of Kings? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesomeness Summoned Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Goodness gracious, did you really just academically cite a part of The Way of Kings? Well, if you copy and paste from an ebook it automatically adds that citation information so he might have just not gone through the extra five seconds to delete the citations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Hoodie Mistborn Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Well, if you copy and paste from an ebook it automatically adds that citation information so he might have just not gone through the extra five seconds to delete the citations This I find it easier to just paste it directly. Plus it pleases my graduate degree self, since I had to do that for sooo many references in papers and such, just seems right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lil_literalist Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Taln just underwent 4500 years of torture. The other Heralds were supposed to go back with him, but they didn't. So all of their torture was laid upon him as well. I would think that this would be pretty traumatizing. The point about this being a longer period of time between Desolations is also true. I could hunt for a quote if you really wanted one, but I'm 95% sure that this is true. Taln was tortured more intensely and for a far longer period of time than he had ever experienced before. Remember Dalinar's vision when he meets some of the KR when they save him and his family from the shadow-smoke beasts? Picture the KR appearing to a larger group of people and giving Taln's repeated speil. This is likely how the Heralds should have come. The Heralds weren't given their name just because it sounded cool. They appeared a year or so before the Desolation and proclaimed the plight of mankind. The Heralds repeatedly united mankind, and they couldn't have done this if they spent several months being ignored as madmen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmurfAquamarineBodies Posted March 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Was the 4500 wait deliberate? Did odium just let him sit there being tortured until he broke then release him so that the Rosharians were even less prepared? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taveren Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 it might have been deliberate maybe odium waited for the knights to fall and people to forget everything they would need to know to fight him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma Fiend Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 I do remember something mentioning how this time Odium has basically just been chilling back, letting humans destroy themselves. Wasn't it worded like, "He realized you would do his work for him" or something along those lines?That and the letter mentioning how Odium is contained or invested in another system, so his reach isn't as strong.So that extended time period, in addition to the 9x level of torture means a very broken Herald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 If you are referring to the letter from Dragon to Hoid (regarding Odium being invested), I believe the author meant to write "Odium is invested in Greater Roshar, so he can't go to the other Shardworlds and Splinter their Shards like he did with Aona / Devotion and Skai / Dominion" - or something to that effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamma Fiend Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 I may be wrong, but is there a WoB out there that basically says Odium isn't technically on Roshar right now? I thought maybe Ashyn, or whatever one of those other planets in the Greater Roshar system are called. Because if we was still contained on that planet nearby, then he could still maybe have some reach to Roshar like we're currently seeing, and not him being totally invested.Like I said, I could be completely wrong. I remember having a hard time of keeping up with him. "Where in the Cosmere is Odium san Diego?" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argent Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Dragon's response says Odium is invested in a system, not a planet. So he could be hanging out on Braize, for example (so he is technically not on Roshar), but could stop by Roshar any time and see what's going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorridgeBrick Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Was the 4500 wait deliberate? Did odium just let him sit there being tortured until he broke then release him so that the Rosharians were even less prepared?I think it may be a term of the Oathpact. Until the Heralds break and are sent back, Odium can't send a Desolation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asperity Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 IIRC, Odium is currently Invested on Braize so he could be currently AT Braize but I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy moon Posted March 11, 2014 Report Share Posted March 11, 2014 Was the 4500 wait deliberate? Did odium just let him sit there being tortured until he broke then release him so that the Rosharians were even less prepared? It seems to me that the wait was completely deliberate. "Obviously they are fools The Desolation needs no usher It can and will sit where it wishes and the signs are obvious that the spren anticipate it doing so soon The Ancient of Stones must finally begin to crack It is a wonder that upon his will rested the prosperity and peace of a world for over four millennia" Book of the 2nd Ceiling Rotation Pattern 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veil Posted March 12, 2014 Report Share Posted March 12, 2014 I agree with everything said so far, but I also think that it was getting worse with each Desolation. Centuries of torment followed by a few years preparing/fighting in the Desolation, then repeat the cycle. It's not like the Heralds ever had any significant break from the torment. That's the whole reason the Nine broke the Oathpact. They couldn't take it anymore. So Taln was probably pretty close to breaking already, then received an overload of torment for far longer than usual while also dealing with the betrayal of his friends/allies.... Yeah, not surprising that he's completely broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevalion Posted March 14, 2014 Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 I think Taln had to break and say uncle. See Diagram Epigraph from Chap 83. "The Ancient of Stones must finally begin to crack. It is a wonder that upon his will rested the prosperity and peace of a world for over four millennia." I think Taln, Stonesinew, is the "Ancient of Stones." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmurfAquamarineBodies Posted March 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2014 I think Taln had to break and say uncle. See Diagram Epigraph from Chap 83. "The Ancient of Stones must finally begin to crack. It is a wonder that upon his will rested the prosperity and peace of a world for over four millennia." I think Taln, Stonesinew, is the "Ancient of Stones." That's what I got out of that line as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11thorderknight Posted March 15, 2014 Report Share Posted March 15, 2014 My take on the Oathpact and the Desolations is this - Odium gets to have the Heralds on Braize, where he tortures them. When one of them breaks, all ten return to Roshar, and Odium gets to have his Desolation. This actually explains why this last time took so long - normally, Odium only had to break one out of the ten. This time, he had to specifically break one (who coincidentally may have been the hardest to break?). It's like getting to throw ten dice and needing one of them to read 6, vs. throwing one dice and needing it to read 6. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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