Why Do They Always Go Into Hands???

[Snipexe he/him]

Why do Dead Shardblades always go into the wielders hands? They never seem to appear anywhere else. Couldn’t  you just summon your blade in a position within a certain distance to your body, let it drop and kill someone, and then grab it or something.

[Walin he/him]

Well, spren are shaped by perception, so maybe the idea that it always summons to the hand makes dead ones do it, too.

[Nashan’Elin he/him]

After scrolling through piles of WoBs, I can only say that I don't know. It is possible to bond more than one (dead) Shardblade, you can have multitudes, but you'd have to summon each one separately, and I don't know where they'd be summoned to. 

Short answer- no clue

[Snipexe he/him]

@Walin while they are shaped by perception, I feel like there should be more of a reason. What would happen if someone with no hands bonded to a shardblade? Would it just fall in front of them, and then disappear. We know that they can go long distances once they have been summoned, and can be thrown. I hope this will be answered in Oathbringer

 

[Siaun Sanche she/her]

43 minutes ago, snipexe said:

Why do Dead Shardblades always go into the wielders hands? They never seem to appear anywhere else. Couldn’t  you just summon your blade in a position within a certain distance to your body, let it drop and kill someone, and then grab it or something.

Well, there aren't a lot of other places where you would want to summon it, right?

[Snipexe he/him]

34 minutes ago, Harry the Heir said:

Well, there aren't a lot of other places where you would want to summon it, right

Well you could summon it right above the enemies general’s tent. Szeth could have used it to assasinate from a distance... there are plenty of uses.

Edited September 26, 2017 by snipexe
Spelling

[Siaun Sanche she/her]

Just now, snipexe said:

Well you could summon it right above the enemies general’s tent. Szechuan could have used it to assisnate from a distance... there are plenty of uses.

Potentially, you could, but I feel like dropping a sword on somebody is a tactic that's maybe only situationally useful (since you have to anticipate where they'll be in ten seconds and if people don't like what you just did you don't have your sword for another ten seconds). Assuming that it's possible to do, it wouldn't be terribly common. So personally I wouldn't assume that it was impossible just because we haven't seen it yet.

[Snipexe he/him]

@Harry the HeirI agree, your points do make sense. Now I just to see it/ ask Brandon if it is possible

[Calderis he/him]

I'm searching for a WoB, because this has come up before. 

The same way as mental command can be given to keep a blade from puffing away when thrown, a highly experienced Shardbearer could summon their blade elsewhere but its extremely short range. We're talking within a foot or two. So no real combat use. 

[+robardin he/him]

9 hours ago, Calderis said:

I'm searching for a WoB, because this has come up before. 

The same way as mental command can be given to keep a blade from puffing away when thrown, a highly experienced Shardbearer could summon their blade elsewhere but its extremely short range. We're talking within a foot or two. So no real combat use. 

Not for a ten-heartbeats type of deadspren Blade, but an insta-summon livespren Blade that you could form into a smaller shape (like a dagger or a star-shaped shuriken), throw a distance, and then immediately re-summon to hand to throw again, could be a pretty deadly technique.

Edited September 26, 2017 by robardin

[Calderis he/him]

On 9/26/2017 at 7:58 AM, robardin said:

Not for a ten-heartbeats type of deadspren Blade, but an insta-summon livespren Blade that you could form into a smaller shape (like a dagger or a star-shaped shuriken), throw a distance, and then immediately re-summon to hand to throw again, could be a pretty deadly technique.

That's a completely different subject, and I still say a bladed chakram would be the best thrown weapon for a Radiant. 

Edited September 30, 2017 by Calderis

[The One Who Connects he/him]

8 minutes ago, robardin said:

you could form into a smaller shape (like a dagger or a star-shaped shuriken), throw a distance, and then immediately re-summon to hand to throw again, could be a pretty deadly technique

It's remarkably less deadly than you'd think. Death is usually a secondary effect of Throwing Knife/Shuriken/Arrow wounds on a battlefield unless you can guarantee a shot the the heart/brain. The real killers from those type of wounds are blood loss, infection and/or cumulative injury.

Blood loss and infection are ruled out automatically with Shardblades, as they don't cause open wounds on a live target. Cumulative injury is rather speculative, due to the questionable effectiveness of partial Shardblade cuts (see below)

A Shardblade kills a limb by cutting the core of it. A throwing knife/arrow/what-have-you, is not going to be very good at severing limb cores. The blade is much smaller, which requires more precision. The projectile is thrown, which hinders that precision. The projectile is unbreakable, so there is no danger of shrapnel.The projectile is always a through and through, so there is no danger to your bones/organs from running around with a knife stuck in you.

Speaking of bones, those would not be damaged by knife/arrow impacts at all, so there will be no broken ribs/fractured shins causing the target to lose their mobility. it's easier to hit a target that is slowed by your earlier shots, and you won't reliably have that with this method.

We simply don't know enough about partial cuts to make a definitive statement on it, but getting stabbed six times in the stomach by a steel knife will probably kill you. Getting a Shardblade to the gut probably won't kill you. That distinction makes the conventional tactics require a little rewriting.

5 minutes ago, Calderis said:

That's a completely different subject, and I still say a bladed chakram would still be the best thrown weapon for a Radiant. 

Well, that was a fascinating google search. I'm tempted to agree with you on this. The effective "size" of the blade would be the diameter of the ring, and that's got much more certainty in hitting the core of a limb than an arrow would.

[Harakeke]

Simple natural selection. Shardblades that enter the physical realm near other parts of the wielder's anatomy (like for example in the middle of one's heart) would tend not to get passed along to one's heirs. Incidentally, this also solves the "too many shardblades at the Recreance" problem. 

(only half joking...)

Edited September 26, 2017 by Harakeke

[17th Splinter he/him]

I think it just has to do with the mental commands. We already know shardblades disappear when dropped, so you would probably have to summon it and command it to stay in the same instant.

[Killik he/him]

On 9/26/2017 at 11:32 AM, The One Who Connects said:

It's remarkably less deadly than you'd think. Death is usually a secondary effect of Throwing Knife/Shuriken/Arrow wounds on a battlefield unless you can guarantee a shot the the heart/brain. The real killers from those type of wounds are blood loss, infection and/or cumulative injury.

Blood loss and infection are ruled out automatically with Shardblades, as they don't cause open wounds on a live target. Cumulative injury is rather speculative, due to the questionable effectiveness of partial Shardblade cuts (see below)

A Shardblade kills a limb by cutting the core of it. A throwing knife/arrow/what-have-you, is not going to be very good at severing limb cores. The blade is much smaller, which requires more precision. The projectile is thrown, which hinders that precision. The projectile is unbreakable, so there is no danger of shrapnel.The projectile is always a through and through, so there is no danger to your bones/organs from running around with a knife stuck in you.

True, a shardknife/shuriken/arrow wouldn't cause the blood loss that a normal weapon would, but it also doesn't stop like a normal weapon would.  Meaning if you threw it with enough force, it would likely go right through a person's body.  Now I don't know for sure what would happen if a Shardshuriken went through one of my major organs, but considering it kills a limb when it cuts through I would expect that organ to die.  

No blood loss, but a dead lung/stomach/heart would be difficult to survive.

[The One Who Connects he/him]

11 hours ago, Killik said:

Now I don't know for sure what would happen if a Shardshuriken went through one of my major organs, but considering it kills a limb when it cuts through I would expect that organ to die

We don't know if there is a "core" of organs like there are to limbs, and that could make all the difference. Otherwise, I'd agree with you, even if this still falls to the accuracy issue somewhat

[Aleksiel]

We haven't seen alive sprenblade or Honorblade be summoned anywhere, but in the summoner's hand. I'd say if it was possible, Kelek would have summoned his Blade directly into the circle with the rest of them, so we need an answer in general, not just for dead Blades.

[Nymeros]

I cannot imagine a reason why you wouldn't summon it into your hand. I'm sure a summoning cannot displace a body or other solid matter (assuming they can even be summoned any significant distance away from thee user).

It could also just be that honorblades have a summon to body effect and the shardbladed are just  (powerful) imitations soooo......

[Dahak he/him]

On 26/09/2017 at 4:32 PM, The One Who Connects said:

A Shardblade kills a limb by cutting the core of it. A throwing knife/arrow/what-have-you, is not going to be very good at severing limb cores. The blade is much smaller, which requires more precision. The projectile is thrown, which hinders that precision. The projectile is unbreakable, so there is no danger of shrapnel.The projectile is always a through and through, so there is no danger to your bones/organs from running around with a knife stuck in you.

The projectile is sapient and can change its form. Which rather suggests it can provide active terminal guidance or change shape after impact.

Especially for Honorspren who do the flying around changing shape thing a lot.

Or for Cryptics who can presumably transform to a godmetal version of their usual form and become a vorpal disassembler bushbot.

[Calderis he/him]

1 hour ago, Dahak said:

The projectile is sapient and can change its form. Which rather suggests it can provide active terminal guidance or change shape after impact.

Especially for Honorspren who do the flying around changing shape thing a lot.

Or for Cryptics who can presumably transform to a godmetal version of their usual form and become a vorpal disassembler bushbot.

The implications in the story so far is that they can only phase onto a Shardblade close to the Radiant. I'm ordering to change shape, they are essentially re-summon ingredients themselves. 

Once the Radiant throws the item, until I see evidence counter to it, the trajectory and form are set. 

If this isn't the case, what's to keep the Spren from just phasing in and out of weapon form on the fly and devastating the enemy without any need of the Radiants to do anything? 

[Knghtstlker he/him]

A lot of interesting theories here, I'm re-reading WoR right now, however. Reading this thread is bringing details back to me that I had forgotten largely. My thoughts on the matter, for the Deadspren blades, they mention several times that they are require to walk around holding the blade for 10 days, perhaps that creates a physical landing location for it's summoning position?

On the thrown weapon itself. I favor that they may do more than some imagine, keeping in mind that thrown weapons tumble. However, a Shuriken would be a poor choice, Too much bladed purchase for a weapon that cuts flesh, stone, and steel with no more resistance than perhaps a stick through a waterfall. You want more handles than that. If you have one available, pick up literally any flat object and imagine blades protruding from it. Sounds like a poor choice. Chakrams may be an interesting choice but considering they are likely fighting Vast creatures like thunderclasts, as well as humanoid types, I feel like a sword would be a more wise choice unless you can line up a multiple lashing and then you can just "Drop" it at anyone you choose.

A thrown blade could be useful, in situations. Does anyone remember if Kal throws Syl? I don't recollect and I won't skip around for my own skip around

 

[Calderis he/him]

1 hour ago, Knghtstlker said:

Chakrams may be an interesting choice but considering they are likely fighting Vast creatures like thunderclasts, as well as humanoid types, I feel like a sword would be a more wise choice unless you can line up a multiple lashing and then you can just "Drop" it at anyone you choose.

This is a problem for a chakram why? Your not going to lash it, because it's heavily invested, but when you can make a super light, aerodynamic bladed on that outside ring which encounters minimal resistance when cutting, that's say... 4 to 5 feet across, and you have the strength benefit of stormlight and possibly plate... 

A Chakram would be devastating.

Edit: forgot the whole "can disappear and phase back to your hand without need of retrieval" bit. 

Edited October 5, 2017 by Calderis

[Knghtstlker he/him]

 

On ‎10‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 3:55 PM, Calderis said:

This is a problem for a chakram why? Your not going to lash it, because it's heavily invested, but when you can make a super light, aerodynamic bladed on that outside ring which encounters minimal resistance when cutting, that's say... 4 to 5 feet across, and you have the strength benefit of stormlight and possibly plate... 

A Chakram would be devastating.

Edit: forgot the whole "can disappear and phase back to your hand without need of retrieval" bit. 

 

4 to 5 feet across! What are you the Hoola Hoop Warrior! Chakrams are more like 8 to 15 inches across. not enough to sever a Chasmfiends limb I imagine, Very hard to plunge into somethings heart also keep in mind if there is 2 1/2 feet of blade pointing away from you, there is equal amount of blade pointing at you. It doesn't seem practical to me. swords require caution but not as much as Chakrams. Plate wearers could probably pull it off.. inner forearms are more protected. Think of the scrutiny from the Alethi Light eyes. You would have to duel constantly just to maintain your reputation, Assuming you're using the 8 to 15 inch chakrams you could hardly kill a man without a headshot , since getting to the spine from the front would be tricky..  If, however, you're using your Hoola Hoop of death. Your movements will be impaired though with training I'm certain a person could be a combat hoola hooper, but I'm 100% certain, your nickname would be "Grey Fingers".

[Calderis he/him]

10 hours ago, Knghtstlker said:

4 to 5 feet across! What are you the Hoola Hoop Warrior! Chakrams are more like 8 to 15 inches across.

Yeah, when made to actually be used and thrown easily by a normal person. 

That's something that would be easily changed be a live Spren who can take literally any form. 

I'm talking about a use specifically as a thrown weapon for a Radiant. 

Edited October 7, 2017 by Calderis

[MistbornAlpaca he/him]

On 9/26/2017 at 9:32 AM, The One Who Connects said:

It's remarkably less deadly than you'd think. Death is usually a secondary effect of Throwing Knife/Shuriken/Arrow wounds on a battlefield unless you can guarantee a shot the the heart/brain. The real killers from those type of wounds are blood loss, infection and/or cumulative injury.

Blood loss and infection are ruled out automatically with Shardblades, as they don't cause open wounds on a live target. Cumulative injury is rather speculative, due to the questionable effectiveness of partial Shardblade cuts (see below)

A Shardblade kills a limb by cutting the core of it. A throwing knife/arrow/what-have-you, is not going to be very good at severing limb cores. The blade is much smaller, which requires more precision. The projectile is thrown, which hinders that precision. The projectile is unbreakable, so there is no danger of shrapnel.The projectile is always a through and through, so there is no danger to your bones/organs from running around with a knife stuck in you.

Speaking of bones, those would not be damaged by knife/arrow impacts at all, so there will be no broken ribs/fractured shins causing the target to lose their mobility. it's easier to hit a target that is slowed by your earlier shots, and you won't reliably have that with this method.

We simply don't know enough about partial cuts to make a definitive statement on it, but getting stabbed six times in the stomach by a steel knife will probably kill you. Getting a Shardblade to the gut probably won't kill you. That distinction makes the conventional tactics require a little rewriting.

Well, that was a fascinating google search. I'm tempted to agree with you on this. The effective "size" of the blade would be the diameter of the ring, and that's got much more certainty in hitting the core of a limb than an arrow would.

Okay, but how would this work for a Windrunner? Could you potentially infuse the blade before you threw it, and lash it to the point of a person you want it to hit? I'm a bit rusty on my lashings though, do you lash to a specific point in space or a specific direction? Or can you lash it to a specific point, like a moving object, and have it track that object?